Lothander quest- I'm screwed...

chriseld182

I've searched and searched and haven't been able to find a single other person with my same problem, despite how easily it happened to me. Lothander tells me I'm poisoned, I talk to the diviner, go south to umberlees place... and no one is there. Because they attacked me and I killed them during the quest to get the boy back from them.
Is my entire save file screwed? Has this ever happened before? What can I do?

moody_mage

Did they not drop a Geas scroll when you killed them? If not you could CLUA Console the scroll into your inventory (SCRLJALA).

You may then require further help which this post might be able to assist with;

https://forums.beamdog.com/discussion/11793/lothander-missing

SharGuidesMyHand

chriseld182 said:

Has this ever happened before?

Frequently, in fact.

Like decado said, they should've dropped the necessary item when you killed them all.

Chnapy

If you did not ask to see the high priestess before asking Tenya for the boy's body, you are indeed screwed and need to CLUA the scroll, as decado said. If you had asked for both Tenya and the high priestess, you should have killed her too and gotten the scroll in the process.

Gallowglass

If you didn't ask to see the High Priestess when you had the chance, then you've lost the game. To avoid outright cheating you'll need to go back to a save before that point and replay from then onwards. Of course, if you don't have a prior save, then the only legitimate solution will be to re-start from the beginning. (And next time, remember what the Save Game button is for!)

moody_mage

It's a single player game, fixing a logic glitch to progress from a gamestopping issue isn't cheating IMO. The only thing you are gaining is the ability to not have to restart.

It would be worth raising this as a bug in the bug section.

Gallowglass

It's neither a logic glitch nor a bug. It's a failed quest with fatal consequences.

Nor is it game-stopping, except in the sense that player error leading to game over is always "game-stopping". Learning how to play the quests correctly has always been meant to have an element of challenge to it, and we don't need it dumbed-down to juvenile difficulty.

moody_mage

Whilst I agree with the 'failed quest/fatal consequences' logic I disagree that this scenario falls into this bracket.

If you can accidently fatalfail a quest which appears later in the game by completing a completely unrelated earlier quest in a certain fashion, then that is bad game planning. At the least you should be able to loot the geas scroll from the corpses in the temple even if you have no idea what it is going to be used for.

After all the game is meant to be fun...

Gallowglass

decado said:

If you can accidently fatalfail a quest which appears later in the game by completing a completely unrelated earlier quest in a certain fashion, then that is bad game planning.

Somehow I doubt that we're going to agree on this!

Having long-term traps into which a player can fall unawares - "unawares" meaning that he doesn't find out until later that he's messed it up - is excellent game design. It's the essence of old-school adventure gaming, it's what makes all the difference between a trivially easy game and a challenging game, and it's exactly the sort of complexity which makes a game replayable.

MrNooby said:

At the least you should be able to loot the geas scroll from the corpses in the temple even if you have no idea what it is going to be used for.

No. You should lose the game and have to do it again and learn how to get it right. To hold long-term interest, a game needs to require that players develop skills and learn techniques, else it's just a cakewalk that you play once and forget.

MrNooby said:

After all the game is meant to be fun...

There's much more lasting fun when you feel a real sense of achievement by earning a win against initially-frustrating difficulties. It makes you want to do it again.

Being handed an easy win is what kills a game before it's a year old.

Mathsorcerer

I suspect the scroll didn't get dropped because Jalantha hadn't spawned when the priests went hostile. Your best option is as @decado describes--console the scroll into your inventory.

GreenWarlock

Yes, you are in trouble, but all is not (quite) lost! You have 10 days from being told you are poisoned to complete the game - better get a move on ;~)

Then, by a fluke of export/import, Jon Irenics will silently cure your poison on import into BG2EE ;~)

(But yes, completing the game in just 10 days, with travel time, is going to be tight, unless you hit the level cap already, and even then it is close.)

moody_mage

@Gallowglass I think we'll need to agree to disagree. I think that kind of gameplay is a cheap shot which causes frustration and irritation rather fun and challenge whereas you enjoy this type of gameplay. Each to their own

Mathsorcerer

I just loaded a quick new game, jumped to Baldur's Gate, spawned Marek, let him speak, spawned Lothander, went to the diviner's tent, asked the correct question, spoke to Lothander again, went to the temple, ctrl+y all the priestesses, then went to the Blade and Stars to let Lothander know that it may be impossible to reverse his geas. He was very disappointed but gave me his half of the antidode, meaning that if I track down Marek I can get the other half and cure myself.

Of course, I am playing with my fixed Marek/Lothander quest that allows things to proceed correctly no matter what happens, even if I ask the diviner the wrong questions before asking the correct one. Still...when you went to speak to Lothander did he give you his half of the antidote even though Jalantha wasn't there?