Ranger: Hated Enemy (BG1 to BG2)

Nem

I've read somewhere that the enemies you choose for your ranger are reset when importing to BG2 so that you may pick new ones. Is this true? Will it hold true for BG2:EE I wonder?

I intend to play a ranger and import him into BG2:EE upon release and I would like to do a little planning ahead.

Thanks!

Jaxsbudgie

Well I know Minsc's went from Gnoll (because they stole Dynaheir) in BG1 to Vampire (because they're in league with Irenicus) in BG2.

I don't know about the PC though, I think before they reset it because there was a greater variety of monsters in BG2 than there were in BG1 and some in BG1 don't make any appearances in BG2 (I'm thinking Xvarts?).

It all depends on what you have available to you when you start up BG:EE, if there are Vampires, Beholders, Lichs and the like then yep, looks like they'll get taken over ... maybe!?

(although it does seem a little unfair because I can't imagine there being any worthwhile choices for both games ... Hobgolbin perhaps?)

Nem

@Jaxsbudgie

Yeah that does sound about right. If they redo the enemy selections they probably will carry over huh?

I'll have to wait and see. But I agree with your comments.

Silence

Here's my ideas:
1. Allow a ranger to pick a second favoured enemy at level 10 (or first level of BG2).
2. Allow a ranger to switch out/replace the favoured enemy at level 10 (or first level of BG2).

I know it's not by the rules, but it's a shame because favoured enemy basically only applies to one game or the other.

It's also a shame because favoured enemy is such a narrow category...though I hear things like the Kit Revisions mod offer this.

Dee

If I had to choose one enemy for both games, I'd still go with vampire. I've never had any trouble hitting gibberlings, personally.

sandmanCCL

@Silence: I'm in favor of that. It'd be in line with 3e rules to add additional favored enemies.

In BG1, I always made my favored enemies Ogres simply because all the 'really dangerous' enemies come at a time the bonus to hit and damage are kind of irrelevant. I'll take an enemy that helps get me to higher levels over things that are 'more dangerous' later on.

In BG2, I usually did Beholders or Dragons. Don't see a point in taking Vampires as a favored enemy because Vampires are so easy. Undead in general are jokes in Baldur's Gate 2. There are SO MANY OPTIONS to deal with them. I give Minsc or Anomen the Mace of Disruption +2 and he can solo the entire vampire's den, the exception being the high level spell caster your first time down and then Bodhi later on.

BGtutu didn't allow you to change your favored enemy so I always hacked it to a new value in BG2 for the reasons listed. ONLY enemies I can see being worth the favored enemy list in both games are spiders. I hate spiders.

Dee

I don't know... That +4 damage is pretty tasty, even at high levels.

sandmanCCL

The only enemies I can even think of where that extra damage is really going to matter are Dragons. If you could take humanoids of some kind (any player playable race, for example), I'd be all over that but as is, most things don't really warrant you devoting your talents to taking it out.

There's two schools of thoughts: What helps me most early? What helps me out in the most difficult encounters?

If you are worried about early-game BG1, I think Ogre or Hobgoblins are probably your best bet. They are plentiful and being able to take them out quickly and effectively really helps out in some otherwise difficult encounters. If you're worried about late-game? I don't even know what you'd want for BG1 because post-entrance to the city, you pretty much only encounter humanoid enemies. Maybe oozes and jellies?

For BG2, trolls helps a ton early. Dragons are probably the most difficult encounters otherwise. Maybe mind flayers, beholders or liches. I'd still shy away from liches because scrolls of protection from undead turn any fight against one into a joke. Beholders you can beat single-handedly with the Shield of Balduran, too, so I guess that's not terribly important.

Silence

@sandmanCCL: I always took Ogres too. Good pick! Beholders were high on my list too.

My other frustration with the favoured enemy is that it is really specific and that the list is not comprehensive.

You cannot pick Humans or Elves as a favoured enemy, for example. Having Drow as a favoured enemy I can see as being hugely popular. But I guess that would be a little too powered.

kilroy_was_here

One of the most broken things I found in BG2 was taking the archer kit for the ranger and selecting dragon as the favored enemy. At higher levels they get more ranged attacks/round than a fighter, because of their skill with the bow and the to-hit bonus they will almost never miss, and +4 (non-magical) damage PER ARROW?

That's not even going into the death arrow ability and things like that.

sandmanCCL

Yeah, archers with dragon favored enemies turn dragon encounters into jokes. It's probably the safest way to kill the stupid blue dragon dude in Throne of Bhaal. I forget his name. He's the wizard one. Easily the most difficult encounter because of his absurd damage and borderline immunity to spells.

Equip the bow that shoots extra arrows per round, get some Arrows +4 or +5, and goodnight. All she wrote. GG Dragons.

Gloomfrost

One thing i never understood is why a racial enemy could not be human, especially if you play a non human class.

Dee

I think it's a balance issue, @Gloomfrost. Half the enemies you face in the game are human.

Dragonspear

For BG1 the enemies I consider most are:
Hobgoblin (cause you fight so fricken many), Ogre (Some of the scariest enemies you will encounter), Spiders (a lot of the later chapters end up with a fair amount of spider enemies. And phase spiders and sword spiders can be just as dangerous as Ogres, without the benefit of being able to CC them with web).

BG2:
Ummmmm Dragons :P

Also I don't remember if it was an option, but also demons might be a good call as well. There can be some difficult ones.

Even stalker with dragons is good, especially if you take longsword as a proficiency. Suddenly not only are you getting +4 damage (offhand and mainhand we might add), but then with the extra love from the longsword on the way to Firkragg. Ya good times. I can't wait to finally try an archer in BGEE.

Also in the game of "How to cheese a dragon for fun"

Cavalier Paladin with longsword (+3 to hit and damage against demons and dragons), Archer Ranger with Bow and Dragon favored enemy.

I just hope that in BG2EE they give us some good Longbows in BG2. I always hated that archers were relegated to shortbows cause of the sheer amount that had free ammo. They were never as cool as the shortbows (Gesen's anyone?)

sandmanCCL

Quiver of Plenty helped alleviate a lot of that problem. Longbows in Throne of Bhaal were pretty awesome. Taralash was seriously stupid. Extra movement rate on guys that rely on kiting to begin with? Stupid.

Besides, end-game ToB you were better off equipping magic arrows til they ran dry. Arrows +3 = very yes.

@Gloomfrost: If I recall, 3rd Edition made it so you can't choose a demi-human race as a racial enemy unless you were evil. Rangers being restricted to good alignment in AD&D sort of makes that impossible. I guess they didn't want Rangers "hating" anything that hunting down would be kind of inherently evil.

Quartz

sandmanCCL said:

ONLY enemies I can see being worth the favored enemy list in both games are spiders. I hate spiders.

Yes, I usually choose Spiders for BG1 because Giant Spiders give you a negative with missile weapons so it counters that; and because Sword Spiders are a pain in the ass and I need the boost. Phase Spiders are quite easy to deal with, free EXP, although their poison is diabolical. Astral Phase Spiders are ridiculous amounts of strong but those are only in Durlag's Tower, so ya.

Good options for BGII, I usually take Illithid or Beholder.

Dragonspear

@SandmanCCL

I completely forgot about Taralash =( I just am so used to melee weapons and spells at this point. Herm, looks like ranger just went up a few plays on the chart of who to play first.

Now I'm stuck choosing between Assassin (Halfling), Blade (Half-Elf or Shadowkeepered Elf), Wizard Slayer (Dwarf), or Archer/Stalker (Both Elven)

sandmanCCL

Elves are clearly the best rangers. If you aren't dual-classing to cleric, there's really no point in being anything else.

I'd say for your first playthrough with BG:EE, stick with a race who can romance the other NPCs. I'd do the Archer first out of what you've listed just because I *think* they are going to add an Assassin NPC for BG2. A stalker through BG1 would be pretty interesting but in BG2, you can just use Valygar.

I want to see what an archer is capable of at high levels one of these days. I've actually never ran as one. Only ranger playthrough I did was Beast Master to 12, dual-classed to Cleric. Made it to ToB and just lost interest. Should have tried that build with a smaller party because going uber summon build didn't matter when I never, ever had to cast summon spells to roll over fights.

Quartz

sandmanCCL said:

I want to see what an archer is capable of at high levels one of these days. I've actually never ran as one.

They're insane. You literally only miss basically any monster by rolling a natural 1. On top of that, they are still formidable at melee at high levels, despite not being able to specialize. Indeed, I had a lot of fun running one and I never felt like he was insignificant in any way. Even his armor didn't really hold him back that much, particularly once I got Shadow Dragon Scale.

sandmanCCL

The best armors in the game are rarely the ones with the best AC, at least once you reach Throne of Bhaal. Valygar's armor, for example. Even if you took away being able to cast arcane magic with it equipped on fighter/mage or thief/mage, it's still ludicrously good. There were a lot of good studded leathers besides.

The only kit where the limited armor really hurts I'd say is Avengers. Being stuck with JUST regular leather was a bummer. If they could be evil aligned, I'd say it puts the lotion in the basket and wears the Human Flesh +5 (probably the best armor in the game from an equipped bonuses standpoint), but alack they must be True Neutral only. IIRC the best armor they can use is Skin of the Ghoul.

Lemernis

Don't play rangers much, so I can't say I've ever given this much consideration. It's just sort of an extra little bonus that doesn't seem to have that much actual weight in the game, best I can recall. I think in BG1 I picked spiders. In BG2 vampires sounds like a good choice.

sandmanCCL

@Lemernis: I'm telling you guys, vampires is a trap! They are EASILY handled by potions/spells/scrolls. Easily.

Level drain is only a problem when you don't know how to counter it. Load up on Negative Plane Protection spells and then vampires are simply slightly dangerous melee creatures. (There are a few high level wizard vampires that are a hassle and I admit they are dangerous; however the way to beat those guys is by counterspells. +4 hit/damage against a vampire won't matter much when it's got stoneskins and mantles.)

The sheer number of times I've simply strolled Minsc/Anomen through with the Mace of Disruption +2 makes it kind of routine. Nothing like watching vampires get insta-gibbed against a guy they can't otherwise damage.

Phyrax

The best racial enemy is 'humanoid', but you would have to be evil which is impossible due to AD&D restrictions (yet another reason for 3rd D&D!).

Silence

Vampires can also be turned by higher level clerics quite easily. If you're a power-gamer and you've leveled enough, you can flip on Turn Undead and 'chunk' the entire vampire lair in seconds.

Archers are quite insane. Kensais equally so. I prefer the archer because I hate that stupid-looking unarmoured avatar.

reedmilfam

@Silence - I plan to do one run through with a Kensai (pure) just to see if it is good w/o dual. I also want to try archer. After that, the list is muddy. Never did a bard and I do want to try cavalier once...

Dragonspear

@SandmanCCL

The reason I'm thinking of doing an Assassin run now is because I've never really run with an evil party. I've literally never used Viconia, Edwin or Korgan/Kagain. Adding in Dorn and I just feel like it would fit. Sure there is the option of the Blade there, but I'm thinking of using them in a run that would seek to redeem Viconia and Sarevok throughout the entire thing.

AHF

One that would not be primary but that would be relevant for both games is demon. Durlag's Tower for BG1 and a variety of them for BG2.

mlnevese

@reedmilfam I did it once. I hope you like a challenge, keeping a kensai alive on low levels is hard

reedmilfam

@mlnevese - I think mages are the hardest to keep alive early. Still, the no bracers thing hurts.

mlnevese

@reedmilfam Yeah mages are quite hard as well... but very soon you'll notice you have a warrior with no ranged weapons with high ac in the group and there's very little you can do to improve it...

At least with a mage you can at least cast an armor spell and use missile weapons

Dee

Kensai isn't so hard, as long as you start yourself off with two slots in Single Weapon Style. That +2 bonus to AC is a life-saver.

EDIT: Being an elf with 19 Dexterity doesn't hurt either; that +1 THAC0 with swords is useful as well.