There was indeed a thread on that - think I quoted it. Kithirxx was the author and he presented a great argument in favour of multi-kits. However, there was still a *lot* of disagreement about it. It wasn't a clear majority in support of it was my point. A lot of people were against multi-kits, many citing the Kensai/Swashbuckler as the reason.
Whether or not it is logical or sensible, players might not support increased kit access. Many 2nd edition diehards strongly object to kits even being available in their current form, and some BG diehards think multi-class or dual-class by itself is OP, even without considering kits. I think it's important to approach these issues carefully. The folks at Overhaul are very reluctant to change this classic, so I imagine there would have to be overwhelming support for any change to occur.
People don't just want a logical or balanced gaming experience...they want a fun one.
I don't really get why Kensai/Swashbuckler is used as reason to not permit it. /Swashbuckler gives the dual-class extra AC, THAC0 and damage, but to me /Thief is better because it has Backstab.
First off, Kensai/Thief backstab is awesome! Agree there.
The problem with the Kensai/Swashbuckler is that it has no real disadvantage in melee. The AC bonus granted by Swashbuckler completely covers the Kensai's no armour penalty and turns the glass cannon into a tank. Further, due to the exceptional raw damage bonuses the character receives from both kits, he's going to do an extraordinary amount of damage with any weapon, even one in which he has no proficiency. The character doesn't even need to backstab to annihilate opponents, even though it's highly effective.
I think most of the dual class = OP complaints can be narrowed down to the thief's Use Any Item feat. If this is tweaked slightly, I think it would assuage any complaints about dual classing being overpowered.
Dual class characters, when built optimally, will always be strong, but they come at a cost. 1 being human, which means no ability/saving throw/or other bonuses. The 2nd class--the main class has to be vanilla, which is a good limitation.
I think the current system works well. It limits you, but not too much, so dual class is still strongly viable. I think tweak the Use Any Item with certain kits -- kensai, wizard slayer, and it's all good.
In PnP, you can only have 1 kit (been digging through the books, and it does say consistently, except in 1 book, that kits can only be taken at creation). That's why. However, Specialist Mages are NOT a kit. So you could be a Kensai/Necromancer if you wanted to, and Dual-classing was implemented properly, as it was in BG1. However, it also specifically says that Multi-class characters cannot be specialist mages, except Gnomes.
On the other hand, you're also supposed to be able to dual-class into up to 4 classes (one of each Pool, Warrior, Priest, Rogue, Wizard), if you have the stats and can meet the other requirements for it, and are willing to bare the downtime.
Also unlike BG, you can dual-class ANY class, unless otherwise specified in it's description (which is pretty rare, only saw 2-3 that restrict dual-classing. Witches can't dual-class at all, and Wizard Slayers can't dual into spellcasting classes, so thieves are their only option. Obviously a Paladin can never be part rogue, since no rogue class allows Lawful Good as an alignment, and ceasing to be Lawful Good means your paladin instantly becomes a fighter, you also couldn't be a Paladin/druid for the same reason, but you could be a Paladin/Cleric/Mage if you wanted to. Or A Bard/Druid/Mage.
Technically, UAI shouldn't exist. In PnP the closest thing a rogue gets to use any item is that at lvl 24 thieves can use scrolls to cast spells, and Bards can use equipment normally restricted to mages (and at 27 they get the ability to scribe scrolls of any spells they can cast), both learn the ability to craft magic potions. Most of the other HLA are more or less accurate, or at least remain in the spirit of the original abilities. Though Epic traps aren't a thief exclusive, ANY 20+ character can learn to set them if they spent one of their HL-NCP on the proficiency to do so (though creating a time stop trap requires the ability to cast Time stop, either from Known spells or from a scroll). Though Thieves are supposed to get an HLA that grants constant Non-detection, and Improved Bard song is supposed to reduce the singing time to 1 round instead of 3 rounds, extend the duration by an additional 5 rounds (supposed to have a base duration of 1 round/level), and remove the restriction against using it in direct combat.
Comments
Whether or not it is logical or sensible, players might not support increased kit access. Many 2nd edition diehards strongly object to kits even being available in their current form, and some BG diehards think multi-class or dual-class by itself is OP, even without considering kits. I think it's important to approach these issues carefully. The folks at Overhaul are very reluctant to change this classic, so I imagine there would have to be overwhelming support for any change to occur.
People don't just want a logical or balanced gaming experience...they want a fun one.
The problem with the Kensai/Swashbuckler is that it has no real disadvantage in melee. The AC bonus granted by Swashbuckler completely covers the Kensai's no armour penalty and turns the glass cannon into a tank. Further, due to the exceptional raw damage bonuses the character receives from both kits, he's going to do an extraordinary amount of damage with any weapon, even one in which he has no proficiency. The character doesn't even need to backstab to annihilate opponents, even though it's highly effective.
Dual class characters, when built optimally, will always be strong, but they come at a cost. 1 being human, which means no ability/saving throw/or other bonuses. The 2nd class--the main class has to be vanilla, which is a good limitation.
I think the current system works well. It limits you, but not too much, so dual class is still strongly viable. I think tweak the Use Any Item with certain kits -- kensai, wizard slayer, and it's all good.
On the other hand, you're also supposed to be able to dual-class into up to 4 classes (one of each Pool, Warrior, Priest, Rogue, Wizard), if you have the stats and can meet the other requirements for it, and are willing to bare the downtime.
Also unlike BG, you can dual-class ANY class, unless otherwise specified in it's description (which is pretty rare, only saw 2-3 that restrict dual-classing. Witches can't dual-class at all, and Wizard Slayers can't dual into spellcasting classes, so thieves are their only option. Obviously a Paladin can never be part rogue, since no rogue class allows Lawful Good as an alignment, and ceasing to be Lawful Good means your paladin instantly becomes a fighter, you also couldn't be a Paladin/druid for the same reason, but you could be a Paladin/Cleric/Mage if you wanted to. Or A Bard/Druid/Mage.
Technically, UAI shouldn't exist. In PnP the closest thing a rogue gets to use any item is that at lvl 24 thieves can use scrolls to cast spells, and Bards can use equipment normally restricted to mages (and at 27 they get the ability to scribe scrolls of any spells they can cast), both learn the ability to craft magic potions. Most of the other HLA are more or less accurate, or at least remain in the spirit of the original abilities. Though Epic traps aren't a thief exclusive, ANY 20+ character can learn to set them if they spent one of their HL-NCP on the proficiency to do so (though creating a time stop trap requires the ability to cast Time stop, either from Known spells or from a scroll). Though Thieves are supposed to get an HLA that grants constant Non-detection, and Improved Bard song is supposed to reduce the singing time to 1 round instead of 3 rounds, extend the duration by an additional 5 rounds (supposed to have a base duration of 1 round/level), and remove the restriction against using it in direct combat.