@Metal_HurIant: I just want you to read over all these quotes. You typed it all. Anyone willing to scroll up will see it.
You attacked my character and competency 13 times. You feign incredulity at every suggestion I have, and fail to understand a lot of my points. Instead of asking for clarification, you attack me for them.
Are you serious? I attacked your character and competency 13 times? For example, how is having an 18 WIS instead of taking potions attacking your character? I could pull apart your post and I think you need to understand what attacking someone's character is.
Doesn't feel good when people say shit like that, does it? Change your tone if you want people to respond to you.
And because I spent the last little while compiling and counting the sheer number of inflammatory things you've send my direction, I might as well respond to a few of your points.
And what "shit" have I said to you? This is the internet. You need to get some thicker skin if you can't handle a debate.
1.) Convenience is relative. I have never in my experiences beating the entire saga needed high strength or wisdom on a mage Bhaalspawn. Unless you're planning to solo the game, I don't see the need to roid up strength to max when I could even it out and reduce charisma and wisdom penalties. What are you lugging around that's so heavy and takes up all your inventory anyway? I'm curious to see what your inventory looks like if you're struggling to run with sub-18 strength on a mage, especially if you don't use consumables.
I've beaten the BG series with sub par stats. Anyone can. What you seem to forget is I'm powergaming my Mage to the max to get the best benefits from him.
And what items am I carrying? When you're in a 4 member party, all those armour, swords, etc add up and fill your inventory quickly. Why cripple yourself with a 8-10 Str Mage that can't help carry anything heavy?
All you're doing is having to micro-manage the loot you pick up because you can't put anything heavy in your Mage's inventory.
Personally, I find it more convenient to put my charisma at around 7 rather than 3, and roll with 10 strength than I do to have the ability to dump a bunch of armors in my Mage's inventory. It means I can recruit Kivan or Shar-Teel into my party without relying on another NPC to do it for me. Losing out on being able to dump a bunch of splint mails on my mage doesn't mean a whole lot to me. That's what Minsc, Korgan, Valygar, Keldorn and Anomen are for in BG2. In BG1, there is a significant dearth of items of weight that are also valuable. If you manage to fill up the inventory of your entire party and still can't carry something, go to town and sell it.
Again, why micro-manage NPC's and your Mage's invenotry? Who has time to do that? Oh that's right, you do.
It's nice to carry more than 70 lbs of crap on a character just for carrying loot, but smart distribution of loot among your party goes a long way. I've discovered I never need more than 2 guys with 17+ strength to carry literally everything I could ever need to haul out from any dungeon. This is based on lots of play experience. If you pull out that bullshit "you don't know what you're talking about" attitude with me again, well. Okay. You'd just be trolling at that point.
Again, micro-managing loot. I have better things to do like actually playing the game instead of thinking, Gosh, my Mage can't carry this and Minsc's inventory is full too. Oh what will I do?
2.) You can statistically figure out your chance for any given roll. Also, you're suggested roll was not 80+. It was specifically 87. There's a big difference between a roll of 80 and 87. Rolling just an 80 vs. the 87 you suggested is the difference between having 11 str and 18, or 15 wisdom and just 8. So before you start telling me to figure out what I'm arguing, figure it out yourself please.
Again, 87 is not hard to get. Anything over 80 is dead easy. 87 is also easy to get within 5-10 minutes. It doesn't take hours to do it. What does take hours is to get a 18/00 STR with other stats that have a combined value of over 80+.
Because you don't need the 18/??, then an 87 is easliy achievable in 10 minutes at most. Hours? Complete BS.
Rolling 80-85 is fairly easy, you're right. But that is not what you said. You said 87. Each point above 83 gets exponentially more difficult to roll. I will go grab a math major if you want me to prove this to you rather than rely on your personal anecdotes.
Ah, so you're now saying 85 is easy but getting two extra points is hard? Again, complete BS. When I can roll and aim for the 90 mark, 87 is easy.
Why don't you get that math major instead of relying on your personal anecdotes.
3.) Lore is not important. However, if you really want to avoid the penalties to it, you can rest comfortably at 7. That was all I meant with that. I personally tend to totally dump it on mages.
Oddly enough, the mages where lore is most important are Conjurers because they cannot get Identify. But, they also cannot cast Wish as that is a divination spell.
Again, you say it's not important but then you say, if you want to avoid penalties? We're talking POWERGAMING here. Why you would penalise your character if you're powergaming???
4.) Going back to the convenience thing, is it more convenient to spend a half hour rolling a character just to maximize use of a single, solitary late game spell, or use a cheap potion of which you'll have plenty of just from looting by the time you can cast it? If clicking a single extra button in order to maximize use of a very situational spell is too much for you, perhaps you shouldn't be playing a mage at all. Just roll all half-orc fighters with 19 strength and attack command all the enemies. Thinking critically about how to overcome encounters by any means necessary is too difficult, apparently.
Again with the 'half hour' stuff. It doesn't take half an hour to get an 87. Perhaps you need guidance in powergaming on how to actually powergame. Or just go back to your average characters and let the powergamers stay with their powergamed characters.
5.) Clearly having max of every stat is superior to having ones that are not maxed. However, that's not really what the OP was asking. He was wondering how best to set up a mage and I offered an opinion about what is absolutely vital to getting the most out of your wizard rather than things that are superfluous to how you'll use that character. 18 and eventually 19 strength does help you in melee; however it's pretty reckless to go and whack things with a quarterstaff when you're guy only gets at max 6 HP a level no matter how potentially dangerous he is in melee.
If you want to help the Op, then go help the Op. Instead you seem to take issue with a Powergamed Mage that takes advantage of everything in the game.
If you REALLY need strength on your mage, use the level 2 spell "Strength." It gets you 18/01 strength for hours at a time. (I know it says 18/50, but there is literally no difference between 18/01 and 18/50 so I prefer to think of it as the lower end.) It isn't as good as having 19 permanent strength, but it's better than a raw 18. And it also means you can freely beef up your other stats without having to completely min/max.
Why gimp myself and having to use a spell slot and use spells to get my STR up? Again, I don't need to.
It's easy to make a wiki and copy stuff from sites that have been around for the last 15 years. So if I make a wiki and copy everything that other sites have poured over in the last 15 years, that then makes me an authority figure and expert on all things BG?
If you can't see you've been attacking my character this whole time, just wow. There are no words.
Hang on. Who has been attacking whom? You've attacked me right from the start and have even resorted to name calling like 'asshole' and 'jerk'.
Lets looks at the basic facts.
1. I responded to the OP about powergaming a Mage. 2. You questioned why I would do anything of the sort. 3. I gave legitimate reasons for my characters stats. 4. You've then attacked me first about my build and decided those reasons aren't good enough for you and came up with other ways of using consumables, spells etc to use instead of using powergamed stats from the start at character creation. You also suggested that rolling an 87 was nigh impossible and basically needed a mathematics scholar to work out the probablility of rolling such a score. 5. I've said there's no need to resort to postions/spells and said it's easy rolling an 87 and have done it many times. 6. in the end, you've resorted to calling me names like 'jerk' and 'asshole'.
Who's the one that's been picking the fight right from the start and attacking the other persons character including name calling? You have.
Can't believe someone would be so sensitive to a 14 year old computer game. You don't need to resort to name calling. It just makes you look bad.
I already pointed out all your rude remarks and you ignored that you made them, or even worse fail to see just how rude they were.
Moderators have been notified. This is the last I'll directly comment to you.
Interesting that you have hurt feelings and accusing me of attacking your character when if you look back through the thread:
1. Who was the first person to make an attack? You. 2. Who was the ONLY person to make rude and offensive personal attacks and insults? You. Especially with gems like 'asshole' and 'jerk'.
And you have the temerity to accuse me of attacking your character. And then you run to the mods to report me? Great, because I hope they do something about your offensive insults.
I only made a slight edit to one of sandmanCCL's posts, but you've also been overly aggressive. Regardless, the TC's question has been answered and I see no more point in letting this discussion continue when its basically bickering at this point.
Next time, both of you need to be less sensitive to criticisms.
Comments
ahh, now the insults continue. A rational person would debate on the topic on hand isntead of resulting to ad hominem and personal insults. And what "shit" have I said to you? This is the internet. You need to get some thicker skin if you can't handle a debate.
I've beaten the BG series with sub par stats. Anyone can. What you seem to forget is I'm powergaming my Mage to the max to get the best benefits from him.
And what items am I carrying? When you're in a 4 member party, all those armour, swords, etc add up and fill your inventory quickly. Why cripple yourself with a 8-10 Str Mage that can't help carry anything heavy?
All you're doing is having to micro-manage the loot you pick up because you can't put anything heavy in your Mage's inventory.
Again, why micro-manage NPC's and your Mage's invenotry? Who has time to do that? Oh that's right, you do.
Again, micro-managing loot. I have better things to do like actually playing the game instead of thinking, Gosh, my Mage can't carry this and Minsc's inventory is full too. Oh what will I do?
Again, 87 is not hard to get. Anything over 80 is dead easy. 87 is also easy to get within 5-10 minutes. It doesn't take hours to do it. What does take hours is to get a 18/00 STR with other stats that have a combined value of over 80+.
Because you don't need the 18/??, then an 87 is easliy achievable in 10 minutes at most. Hours? Complete BS.
Ah, so you're now saying 85 is easy but getting two extra points is hard? Again, complete BS. When I can roll and aim for the 90 mark, 87 is easy.
Why don't you get that math major instead of relying on your personal anecdotes.
Again, you say it's not important but then you say, if you want to avoid penalties? We're talking POWERGAMING here. Why you would penalise your character if you're powergaming???
Again with the 'half hour' stuff. It doesn't take half an hour to get an 87. Perhaps you need guidance in powergaming on how to actually powergame. Or just go back to your average characters and let the powergamers stay with their powergamed characters.
If you want to help the Op, then go help the Op. Instead you seem to take issue with a Powergamed Mage that takes advantage of everything in the game. Why gimp myself and having to use a spell slot and use spells to get my STR up? Again, I don't need to.
It's easy to make a wiki and copy stuff from sites that have been around for the last 15 years. So if I make a wiki and copy everything that other sites have poured over in the last 15 years, that then makes me an authority figure and expert on all things BG?
I commented on your wiki a while back that it was poorly put together and seemed to be a promo site for mods. That wasn't an attack on your character, it was the plain truth. In fact, here's my original two comments on your wiki back on the 19th August. http://forum.baldursgate.com/discussion/comment/48621/#Comment_48621
http://forum.baldursgate.com/discussion/comment/49549/#Comment_49549
If you can't see you've been attacking my character this whole time, just wow. There are no words.
Lets looks at the basic facts.
1. I responded to the OP about powergaming a Mage.
2. You questioned why I would do anything of the sort.
3. I gave legitimate reasons for my characters stats.
4. You've then attacked me first about my build and decided those reasons aren't good enough for you and came up with other ways of using consumables, spells etc to use instead of using powergamed stats from the start at character creation. You also suggested that rolling an 87 was nigh impossible and basically needed a mathematics scholar to work out the probablility of rolling such a score.
5. I've said there's no need to resort to postions/spells and said it's easy rolling an 87 and have done it many times.
6. in the end, you've resorted to calling me names like 'jerk' and 'asshole'.
Who's the one that's been picking the fight right from the start and attacking the other persons character including name calling? You have.
Can't believe someone would be so sensitive to a 14 year old computer game. You don't need to resort to name calling. It just makes you look bad.
Moderators have been notified. This is the last I'll directly comment to you.
1. Who was the first person to make an attack? You.
2. Who was the ONLY person to make rude and offensive personal attacks and insults? You. Especially with gems like 'asshole' and 'jerk'.
And you have the temerity to accuse me of attacking your character. And then you run to the mods to report me? Great, because I hope they do something about your offensive insults.
I only made a slight edit to one of sandmanCCL's posts, but you've also been overly aggressive. Regardless, the TC's question has been answered and I see no more point in letting this discussion continue when its basically bickering at this point.
Next time, both of you need to be less sensitive to criticisms.