Icewind Dale HLAs?

Noloir

Does Icewindale have HLAs like Baldur's Gate 2? Mu chars are fairly high and HLAs haven't seemed to activate yet.

BillyYank

No, there is a mod that adds them, though.

https://forums.beamdog.com/discussion/37290/house-rules-for-iwd-ee-iwdee-tweaks/p1

wraith5641

@BillyYank Really? It's ridiculous enough having BG2 classes and spells, let alone HLAs!

Noloir

BillyYank said:

No, there is a mod that adds them, though.

https://forums.beamdog.com/discussion/37290/house-rules-for-iwd-ee-iwdee-tweaks/p1

Does this apply to mobile too? If not I'll just export my chars next time they level up, transfer them to bg2 to get HLAs and edit them by drag dropping my single player file to multiplayer. Edit the game by reimporting the chars and put the file back to single player (assuming the function properly).

Noloir

wraith5641 said:

@BillyYank Really? It's ridiculous enough having BG2 classes and spells, let alone HLAs!

I hope you're being sarcastic..the HLA would make single class thief a viable option in IWD:EE long-term. Namely Half-Orc Swashbuckler when it'd otherwise be trashy as a class.

wraith5641

@Noloir You're thinking about one class. You wouldn't just have HLAs for Thieves. You would have them for Fighters and Wizards as well. Imagine a Mage that can cast Summon Planetar in IWD. It would be game-breaking. Greater Whirlwind would also break the game.

The reason HLAs exist in the first place is because the monsters in late SoA and ToB are so ridiculously overpowered that they are necessary. The enemies in IWD are mediocre. You don't need a Fighter with 10 APR to take down a sentry.

Noloir

wraith5641 said:

@Noloir You're thinking about one class. You wouldn't just have HLAs for Thieves. You would have them for Fighters and Wizards as well. Imagine a Mage that can cast Summon Planetar in IWD. It would be game-breaking. Greater Whirlwind would also break the game.

The reason HLAs exist in the first place is because the monsters in late SoA and ToB are so ridiculously overpowered that they are necessary. The enemies in IWD are mediocre. You don't need a Fighter with 10 APR to take down a sentry.

Fair enough. Planetars are overkill but there are latent added abilities. For instance at somepoint thief naturally gains the ability "Evasion". If hand selecting HLAs are that game-breaking I see no reason to avoid porgramming soft abilities like Resist Magic, Use Any Item, Assassination, etc into certain classes after reaching a designated lvl.

wraith5641

@Noloir UAI would be acceptable. Alchemy and Evasion would also be acceptable. Traps and Assassination, not so much.

Obviously it's your game, and you are free to play it however you like. There are just some clear reasons why HLA's aren't in the game and shouldn't be in the game. I actually have a problem with most BG2 classes and spells being in the game, because IWD doesn't need them. I get that the devs wanted to add variety, but they could've done so by designing IWD-specific classes and spells. Time Stop-casting Sorcerers, for example, are cheddar cheese personified in IWD.

ineth

wraith5641 said:

I get that the devs wanted to add variety, but they could've done so by designing IWD-specific classes and spells.

They did tweak the BG2 spells to make them more appropriate for IWD.

For example Insect Plague and Chain Lightning only affect enemies in BG2, which makes it easy to spam those spells against enemy mobs.

In IWD:EE on the other hand they affect your own characters as well, which is a considerable nerf since it makes it much more risky/costly to use those spells.
The first time I tried out Chain Lightning in IWD:EE it insta-killed the caster himself...

wraith5641 said:

Time Stop-casting Sorcerers, for example, are cheddar cheese personified in IWD.

Is "Timestop in IWD:EE" actually a thing, or is this just a myth spread by people complaining about EE 'balance' without actually trying it?

Honest question.

I don't think I ever found a Timestop scroll in the game, and while I had a Sorcerer in one playthrough, I honestly can't remember if he was allowed to chose Timestop on level-up (or if he even reached a high enough level by the end of the game).

Also, it wouldn't even be that overpowered. The main use for Timestop in BG2 is for mage duels where the side that manages to dispell the other's protections first basically wins the battle, and every single round counts. IWD does not have such mage duels.
You could use Timestop to bombard melee monster trashmobs with impunity, but you can also just have a font-line of high-AC warriors holding off the monsters so the mage can bombard them from behind with almost the same impunity.

wraith5641

@ineth I soloed the game, and Time Stop is in there, along with Shapechange. We all know how ridiculous the Imp Haste + Shapechange + Time Stop combo is......

In my anecdotal experience, the BG2 classes and spells made a game that is supposed to be tough to solo so easy for me it's unplayable. Soloing IWD should be difficult and only suited to the best players. Instead, I now find myself breezing through parts of the game that used to take me forever. It took me about 1 minute to bring down Yxunomei with a Sorcerer. That shouldn't happen.

BillyYank

I've got the mod installed, but I haven't reached a high enough level to try them out yet.

Noloir

wraith5641 said:

@ineth I soloed the game, and Time Stop is in there, along with Shapechange. We all know how ridiculous the Imp Haste + Shapechange + Time Stop combo is......

In my anecdotal experience, the BG2 classes and spells made a game that is supposed to be tough to solo so easy for me it's unplayable. Soloing IWD should be difficult and only suited to the best players. Instead, I now find myself breezing through parts of the game that used to take me forever. It took me about 1 minute to bring down Yxunomei with a Sorcerer. That shouldn't happen.

Heart of Fury Mode?

Noloir

wraith5641 said:

@Noloir UAI would be acceptable. Alchemy and Evasion would also be acceptable. Traps and Assassination, not so much.

Obviously it's your game, and you are free to play it however you like. There are just some clear reasons why HLA's aren't in the game and shouldn't be in the game. I actually have a problem with most BG2 classes and spells being in the game, because IWD doesn't need them. I get that the devs wanted to add variety, but they could've done so by designing IWD-specific classes and spells. Time Stop-casting Sorcerers, for example, are cheddar cheese personified in IWD.

Fair enough. I realize that Sorc in and of itself whether D.Sorc or regular becomes ridiculously over powered once tier 6 spells are unlocked. Stoneskin + Mirror Image+ Protection from Magical energy+ Skull Trap can effective annhilate pretty much everything in IWD:EE ( Melf's for Trolls). After that spells become overkill.

wraith5641

Noloir said:

wraith5641 said:

@ineth I soloed the game, and Time Stop is in there, along with Shapechange. We all know how ridiculous the Imp Haste + Shapechange + Time Stop combo is......

In my anecdotal experience, the BG2 classes and spells made a game that is supposed to be tough to solo so easy for me it's unplayable. Soloing IWD should be difficult and only suited to the best players. Instead, I now find myself breezing through parts of the game that used to take me forever. It took me about 1 minute to bring down Yxunomei with a Sorcerer. That shouldn't happen.

Heart of Fury Mode?

I did start HoF, but again, when I can put up Stoneskin + Mirror Image + PfME and then release three Skull Traps in a spell trigger, it really doesn't matter how much HP enemies have. It is almost certain death for every group of enemies that surrounds me. No enemy in IWD has enough magic resistance to deal with that. I realize that you can just set your own restrictions, but the point is that shouldn't be possible in the first place. It's out of place, and adding HLAs in there would just add cheesiness to the point where you may as well just cheat.

I think it would take some real talent to solo "vanilla" IWD. I don't remember much cheesiness in there, IIRC.

JuliusBorisov

@wraith5641 Although I understand where you're coming from, but there's absolutely nothing wrong in mods and people using them. If you don't like HLAs in IWD, don't install the mod, as simple as that. But there're people who would like to try HLAs in IWD, like @Noloir (the OP). This is why such mods exist.

And by the way, if you don't like BG2 classes and spells in IWD, you can still play IWDEE and just ... don't use them. For example, I'm planning such a run through IWD, without kits and added classes. The diversity is not excessive, as long as you have a choice.

wraith5641

@bengoshi I think you're misinterpreting the point I was making. The OP was asking if IWD had HLAs, and I was just talking about how ridiculous it would've been for the devs to add in HLAs after even just adding in BG2 spells and classes ruined the balance.

I have nothing against the OP playing how he likes, and with mods, etc. My problem was with how certain things were implemented by the devs into the core of the game. It would've been nice if they had spent more time tinkering with possibilities unique to IWD, instead of just lazily carrying across aspects of BG2 and disregarding balance.

chuukogu

Balance is overrated!