Suggestions for a "minimal" Thief?

pedrorq

I'm not a big fan of Thieves, don't like to sneak & backstab, normally forget to pickpocket, and virtually the only reason I bring one is for trap removal.

Therefore, I am please looking for suggestions for a Thief dual (or multi) that would allow me to handle traps reasonably well but also perform other roles. I have been looking at the Swashbuckler 5 --> Fighter but I'm not sure I get enough points for Detect/Disarm traps that way.

Also if I'm overlooking anything interesting Thieves may be useful for, besides sneak/backstab/pickpocket, please let me know

And perhaps I should add I do not intend to play through HoF

TIA!

Skatan

If you only want traps, you don't need many levels and can dual very quickly to fighter from swashie. A swashie5->F is a solid option, just as you state yourself. If you want to you can have arcanes memo Knock for you to save more skill points, but I guess you already though of that since you didn't mention lockpicking in your post.

Another option would be assassin->fighter just for the poison. Takes more levels due to the lower amount of skill points per level, but poison is a good skill for some fights. Not necessary though, but can be fun. You'll lose a bit more HP this way, so take that into consideration.

Daevelon

Swashbuckler is the thief with best affinity/sinergy with warrior, if not used for backstab; 5 levels would be more than enough for master disarm trap (and maybe few points to open locks). Of course i assume your character has 18 dexterity. The traps and detect illusion are great for a thief in bg, in iwd detect illusion is not necessary at all, though traps are not bad but you will have only one weak with 5 levels.
I would prefer 10 levels for get the second bonus to thaco/damage, 7 levels anyway will let you get the evasion skill that is good to have.

Kilivitz

You can dual a Thief as early as level 3 (2,500 XP) if you don't mind being relying a bit on equipment:

At Level 3, a Human Thief with DEX 18 will have 60 and 65 in Open Locks and Find Traps, respectively. Using the Deep Red Ioun Stone (DEX +1), the improved Girdle of Gond (+10 FT / +15 OL) and your Bard's Tymora's Melody (+10 to all Thief skills), you can hit 90 in both.

As an added bonus, I've done a bit of random item fishing to get Kaylessa's Gloves (another +1 DEX) to reach 95/95.

I'm currently about to enter Lower Dorn's Deep and not a single trap or lock has stopped my Level 3 Swashbuckler so far.

Of course, this assumes you'll start with either an unkitted Thief or a Swashbuckler since the other kits have penalties on skill points per level.

ineth

Note that due to the roughly-exponential XP progression at lower levels, It won't make much difference in the long term, XP wise, whether you dualed after 3 of 5 levels.

I.e. even if you dual to Fighter after 5 Thief levels, it won't hold your Fighter progression back by any significant amount, and you'll still reach the same Fighter level by the end of the game as a pure-class Fighter:




(These charts are for Baldur's Gate, but I think IWD:EE uses the same XP progression. More charts here.)

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pedrorq

Thanks for the suggestion folks. What weapons should a Swashbuckler 5 --> Fighter spec in, should he make good use of his TWS bonus?

Daevelon

pedrorq said:

Thanks for the suggestion folks. What weapons should a Swashbuckler 5 --> Fighter spec in, should he make good use of his TWS bonus?

I like flail and long swords because:

There are many good flails and a great one on Trials of Luremaster; same for long swords, and the Longsword of Action give +1 apr. With Grandmastery you will reach the max of 5 apr (max without spells or potions).

So main hand flails and off-hand long sword, the swashbuckler can't backstab anyway

ineth

Long Swords in both hands is the best choice from a power-gaming perspective, I think.

Weapon availability is excellent for Long Swords - you'll find "Fine" / "+1" / "+2" etc. variants earlier than for most other weapons types, and later on you'll have a whole range of really powerful ones to choose from.

(In comparison, the availability of Short Swords - which would be more "thematically appropriate" for a thievish character - is pretty meager.)

@Daevelon
I prefer to leave Flails to the those party members (e.g. Clerics) who can't wield edged weapons.
Though if the Thief->Fighter is meant to solo the game, then yeah, either Flails or Maces will do fine as a second weapon type to invest points in.

Skatan

Considering the high amount of undead enemies in IWD, a blunt weapon is always good to have. It's not really necessary though (few things are) but it's convenient. Which blunt weapon to have depends on the rest of the party, so @Pedrorq, if you want the best advice you might have to show the rest of the planned party.

pedrorq

Skatan said:

Considering the high amount of undead enemies in IWD, a blunt weapon is always good to have. It's not really necessary though (few things are) but it's convenient. Which blunt weapon to have depends on the rest of the party, so @Pedrorq, if you want the best advice you might have to show the rest of the planned party.

Haven't made up my mind yet fully on the party, I confess, but was planning on:

1) leaving Longswords to a paladin (for the "holy avenger")
2) a Skald (can handle Knock and arcane in general), no idea on weapons
3) a druid (totemic or fighter -> Druid dual), scimitars
4) a cleric (probably Tyr ot Ranger-> Cleric dual), flails
5) some ranged character? Beastmaster possibly? Did Archer, Assassin and F/T on BG, wanted something alternative
6) The thief dual

Besides swashbuckler, another alternative I thought for a thief dual was some sort of shadowdancer-->mage. It'd take more levels to increase those thief skills, but an idea of a "teleporting"/hiding mage sounds devious!

sarevok57

what I do is have a swashbuckler grow all the way to level 10 ( which happens just as soon as the last boss fight in dragon's eye finishes) and then dual over to a fighter, and then I will give him proficiency in axes and give him the returning +2 throwing axe

this is a great choice for weapons because IWD has a gratuitous amount of baddies and missile ammo is a pain in the butt, and having a swashbuckler/fighter having 5 proficiencies in axes makes them do some serious damage, especially with the items that only thief/fighters can use ( like the STR boosting items) it works even better

when it comes to trap detection and what not, the real killer is in the last couple levels of dragons eye, there are tons of traps there, especially in the last level, where they DO NOT go away after you spring them, so having a thief up to that time makes it very handy,

but after dragons eye, traps seemed to get toned down a lot, or at least are much much easier to avoid, so that's why I think having 10 levels in swashbuckler is great for the first part of the game, and then the time your fighter class hits level 11, you will really start to wreck some baddies