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Need help with my evil party

BTW, I installed the BG tweak pack, NPC pack and a bunch of other things. Where possible I gave the BG2 values for NPC stats.

I played through as a good cleric. Now I'm turning to the dark side and welcome suggestions on a naughty party. The clerical side is a stumbling block for me.

Right now I have just left Candle keep (with Imoen) and picked up Montaron (ASSASSIN) and Xzar (NECROMANCER). These are my thoughts on party make up. I guess I need to take them ASAP so I can guide their progression and assign proficiencies.

1. My character is a Gnome illusionist/thief (Crossbow and scimitar proficiency)
2. As a cleric Viconia looks good. I think I probably need another one given how much healing I needed in the previous play through.

For muscle:
3. Kagain - 20 Con, 16 Str, 12 Dex Dwarf FIGHTER
4. Dorn - 19 STR 16 Dex Half Orc BLACKGUARD

Ranged:
5. Shar-Teel Human FIGHTER - good but crazy low CON

Hard to resist this guy
6. Baeloth Drow SORCEROR - Damn good mage

I think I should drop one of the above and take the Neutral Cleric you find petrified at the fair.

Comments

  • JarrakulJarrakul Member Posts: 2,029
    Shar-Teel's con isn't actually any worse than Dorn's in terms of its effect on hit points. With equivalent armor, she's actually tankier than he is (because of her higher Dex). She also doesn't start with good proficiencies for an archer.

    Given that, I'd probably swap out one of your warriors (not necessarily Shar-Teel) for another priest. Tiax (cleric/thief), Branwen (cleric), or Faldorn (druid) would all probably fit the party. My favorite of the above would be Faldorn, because you already have a cleric and a thief, but druids are also kind of lackluster until near the end of BG1.
    SwordLordPhilhelm
  • SwordLordSwordLord Member Posts: 16
    >Shar-Teel's con isn't actually any worse than Dorn's in terms of its effect on hit points.

    Thanks, I hadn't spotted that. Good to know so I don't reject characters by mistake.

    I see that for melee at least Shar-Teel has 18/58 Strength so +2 / +3 to hit/to damage vs +3 / +7 for Dorn. Does that go for Composite bows or just melee?

    For a second Cleric I wonder if Branwen and Druid Faldorn are tied spells. Druid specific spells I find aren't that good in a lot of contexts. Also, when can I get Faldorn given I patched to make Cloakwood open? Do I still have to wait?

  • PK2748PK2748 Member Posts: 381
    You can put Buckleys Buckler on Dorn for a small boost
  • JarrakulJarrakul Member Posts: 2,029
    Strength doesn't have any direct effect on bows, crossbows, or darts. You do need an 18 strength to use composite longbows, but both Dorn and Shar-Teel meet that requirement, so they're pretty much equal at archery (except Dorn has Poison Weapon, which is just generally good for melee and ranged combat).

    In general, the main advantages of Shar-Teel are her ability to get three pips in longsword or dagger, and the fact that she starts with a dual-wield build (which is generally a very strong style for dealing melee damage). Dorn is probably actually the better archer of the two, weird as that sounds, due to his poison. Although Shar-Teel does get an extra +1 to hit with ranged weapons from her higher dexterity.

    As for Faldorn vs. Branwen, I'd say Branwen has better low level spells (especially Command and Hold Person, but also group buffs like Protection from Evil 10' Radius), while Faldorn has better high level spells (Call Woodland Beings, Ironskins, and Insect Plague). One consideration, however, is that you already have access to the cleric group buffs through Viconia, so having a second cleric for those may give you less of a benefit.

    I *think* you can get Faldorn early since Cloakwood is open. I'm not 100% sure of that, but I can't think of any reason why you wouldn't be able to.
  • SwordLordSwordLord Member Posts: 16
    I see Dorn has two handed weapon skill and style. There are +3 two handed weapons (and web handy spiders bane). With Dorn having +3/+7 hit/damag, and starting with his +1 (+2 if he gets a kill per 24 hours..) sword and the ability to poison, is he on a par with dual wielders?

    I guess we have to offset his damage with the option to get magical effects from two weapons (often both long swords).

    You can't do everything on a particular run. There are just too many options. I could consider not taking Baeloth. I could just kill him and knick his magical robes for my LE Gnome - taking them in a bit at the hem. That would leave a spot for another Cleric or a Druid.
  • SwordLordSwordLord Member Posts: 16
    >You can put Buckleys Buckler on Dorn for a small boost

    Wow, then he would regenerate. I did not understand you could use that buckler while wielding a two handed sword.
  • JarrakulJarrakul Member Posts: 2,029
    I don't think you can? If you can equip bucklers with two-handed weapons, I have been doing something wrong for many years. And he wouldn't regenerate, not until his Con hit 20, but he would get some extra hit points. Honestly, though, Dex is more important than Con for tanking in BG1.

    As for Dorn's damage output relative to Shar-Teel's, let's go ahead and do some math, shall we? Gonna go ahead and use level 3 as a baseline, because if you're recruiting Shar-Teel you might as well get a couple levels killing basilisks while you're in the area. (Protip, if you don't know: learn Protection from Petrification)

    Dorn at level 3, with his starting weapon: +5 THAC0, 1d10 +11 damage, 1.5 APR, average damage 24.75
    Shar-Teel at level 3, with longswords +1 from her starting area: +4/+0 THAC0, 1d8 +6 damage, 2.5 APR, average damage 26.25

    Note that these average damage numbers don't take THAC0 into account, so I'd say Dorn actually wins this one, just slightly, even before his special abilities come into play.

    Dorn at level 8, with World's Edge +3 and Gauntlets of Weapon Expertise: +8 THAC0, 1d10 +15 damage, 2 APR, average damage 41.
    Shar-Teel at level 8, with endgame longswords and Gauntlets of Weapon Expertise: +8/+3 THAC0, 1d8 +11 / 1d8 +9 damage, 3 APR, average damage 44.5

    So again, slight lead on damage for Shar-Teel, but her lower off-hand THAC0 probably brings them roughly in line. Dorn's 19 Strength is nothing to sneeze at.
  • PK2748PK2748 Member Posts: 381
    You can't use a buckler and a two handed weapon but get Dorn at level one and turn him into a poisoned slinger. Really wreck those enemy mages! Get some extra hit points out of it while you're at it. Plus it's funny. Demonic slingshot!
  • SwordLordSwordLord Member Posts: 16
    My mistake (again) I thought Dorn had higher con.

    Thank you for your break down of damage. It brings the power of these characters into focus. I just picked up Kagain and Shar-Teel on the way down to Naskel. Now I am leaning towards

    Me
    The two clerics or perhaps one cleric and one Druid (still not sure about the benefits of Druidism)
    The three fighters

  • DevardKrownDevardKrown Member Posts: 421
    edited March 2016
    -Gnome illusionist/thief- so your mage and thief needs are covered (if you start with 18 con , get the con book and use bucklys you get that sweet 20 con and also start to regenerate while sleep or travel , limits you to one handed options like throwing daggers darts or slings but its an option)

    -Kagain- slapped in best armor shield/axe with all the armor reducing rings cloaks n stuff will make your best front liner , almost unhitable and still decent dmg. give him boots of speed so he will always be the first enemy's see and attack. best of all if he takes dmg he will heal it natural while traveling or sleeping.

    -Dorn- Give him a 2Handsword and watch the dmg fly. rubbish as tank tough.

    -Viconia- 19 dex make her hit excellent with the Sling. she screams for ogre strength gloves tough. but for some reason the developer gave her the almost lowest possible Hitpoints even if her con of 8 doesn't give any downs to that (lvl6 27 hp out of 48 possible is just cruel so pick her up ASAP so she wont get even more shitty hp rolls) also she has 50% magic resist, give her a potion of magic resist and you can watch mages fire there whole spell memory at her with no effect.

    if you need more Healing from here go for -Branwen- and replace her Later with -Yeslick- (remove his whining with helm of opposite alignment) he has more strength , shorty bonus , health , as fighter better etw0 and APR

    giving you a Decent party of 5 , with one slot over to pick up other NPC for quests.
  • SwordLordSwordLord Member Posts: 16
    Great suggestions. I already managed to pick up my party at 1st/2nd level.

    Me - gnome illusionist/thief (18 con for +5 shorty saves, 19 intelligence)

    Fighters - Dorn (Blackguard), Kagain, Shar-teel
    Clerical - Viconia, Branwen

    Do strength bonuses work with slings? There is a +3 sling I used last time which would be good for a cleric. I'll give one cleric a +2 sling also. My Gnome will have the light crossbow of speed.

    Dorn has 2 pips in 2 handed sword and 2 in 2 handed weapon. He just hit 3rd level and I gave him 1 pip in Bastard sword (which he can use two handed).

    Kagain has 3 pips in axe, plus the pip in crossbow and something else he started with.

    Shar-teel is dual wielding a long sword and a poisoned dagger I found somewhere at the momet. But it is early days.

    It will be easier to get the two fighters to pick up proficiency points in the other weapons which will be useful, such as maces, than to do that with Dorn. Perhaps I can even give one of them something in bows so as to use all the good ammo you pick up.
  • butteredsoulbutteredsoul Member Posts: 168
    I know you're half/Mage, but Edwin is the best NPC Mage in BG1. Something to consider.
  • SwordLordSwordLord Member Posts: 16
    So many good NPCs!

    Does Edwin or another other mage have good loot I can use? I know the Drow mage (forget the name) has a gown of naughty Arch-Magi. I will be killing him for that. I read somewhere that another naughty mage has a cursed ring that gives extra spells (I already got the wizardry ring which gives double first level spells.)
  • SkatanSkatan Member, Moderator Posts: 5,352
    You seem set on having two clerics, but to be frank, I play through BG1 without one at times and consider two a serious waste of space (unless I bring Tiax, since Tiax rules all!). With that said, and if you really, really want two clerics, you could try the sweet dual of Xzar after using tome. Never tried it myself, but I'd rather have another mage than a cleric, but with this dual you get both. As with all things like this, it'll take some time to complete of course.
  • SwordLordSwordLord Member Posts: 16
    You could be right. But 2 clerics and 3 fighters will give me rolling buffed up destruction.

    For some reason I need a lot of healing. Possibly this is just me playing stupidly.

    BTW, I got the CON tome and used it on my gnome who, with the buckler, has 20 CON. I have a cloak which allows me to turn into a wolf. I will see if I regenerate if I go into wolf form wearing the buckler. Could be fun.

    Right now I have picked up Neera just to knock off her quest. My characters are 3rd/4th level. Just about to enter a tomb in an map segment adjacent to where her quest starts. I am finding a lot of things challenging at this level.

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