Fighter/Thief Thief/Fighter UAI ...urgh too many choices.
DevardKrown
Member Posts: 421
right now im juggling around with Different Fighter Thief Builds but just cant decide the most well rounded.
the options i came up so far are.
##-Human Swashbuckler6/FighterX-##
-pros-
Gets 2 Hit/DMG and 2 AC
Weapon Grand Mastery
Not Limited to Thief weapons because no Backstab
Best THAC0 Progression since thief doesn't suck up more XP
-Downsides-
No Sneaking
No UAI
No Backstab
No Traps
No Thief HLA's
a slight hit to max HP
short Dual Phase
##-Half-Orc Fighter/Thief-##
-pros-
19 Strength and Con right of the bat so easy regeneration and early Bonus in hit n DmG
can reach 24 Strength Naturally so not forced to Use Crom.
UAI
Traps
Back-stabs
Easy reachable Regeneration from the get go (bucklys and later the Book)
No Dual fiddling around from start to finish
-downs-
No Grand Mastery
Stuck with thief weapons if he wants to back-stab
wont max out THAC0 until the very end while thief sorta stops granting anything awesome aside UAI with lvl 13 (660k xp) and then just soaks up 2 million slowing down Fighter Progression.
and the last one
##-Human Fighter9/ThiefX-##
-pros-
Grand Mastery
Back-stabs
UAI
Traps
Best HP Outcome.
-Downs-
Notable Dualphase and no Thief Contribution for whole of BG1(but can wear plate in BG1)
Limited to Thief Weapons if he wants to Back-stab
Worst Final THAC0 of the 3 (starts of great as Fighter but will dual with a base of 12 and with thief lvl21 finally push it down to the final value of THAC0-10)
right now im swinging between the Half-orc and the Swashbuckler one which boils down to UAI vs. Grand Mastery and flat Boni
Higher Orc Strength of 24vs22 nets 2hit/DMG which is the Bonus of the swash.
so its 1/2APR 2THAC0 3DMG From Grand Mastery/Faster THAC0 Progression 2AC VS UAI and all the Thief Goodies.
writing it down and reading it out Loud i somewhat fancy the Orc Right now~
the options i came up so far are.
##-Human Swashbuckler6/FighterX-##
-pros-
Gets 2 Hit/DMG and 2 AC
Weapon Grand Mastery
Not Limited to Thief weapons because no Backstab
Best THAC0 Progression since thief doesn't suck up more XP
-Downsides-
No Sneaking
No UAI
No Backstab
No Traps
No Thief HLA's
a slight hit to max HP
short Dual Phase
##-Half-Orc Fighter/Thief-##
-pros-
19 Strength and Con right of the bat so easy regeneration and early Bonus in hit n DmG
can reach 24 Strength Naturally so not forced to Use Crom.
UAI
Traps
Back-stabs
Easy reachable Regeneration from the get go (bucklys and later the Book)
No Dual fiddling around from start to finish
-downs-
No Grand Mastery
Stuck with thief weapons if he wants to back-stab
wont max out THAC0 until the very end while thief sorta stops granting anything awesome aside UAI with lvl 13 (660k xp) and then just soaks up 2 million slowing down Fighter Progression.
and the last one
##-Human Fighter9/ThiefX-##
-pros-
Grand Mastery
Back-stabs
UAI
Traps
Best HP Outcome.
-Downs-
Notable Dualphase and no Thief Contribution for whole of BG1(but can wear plate in BG1)
Limited to Thief Weapons if he wants to Back-stab
Worst Final THAC0 of the 3 (starts of great as Fighter but will dual with a base of 12 and with thief lvl21 finally push it down to the final value of THAC0-10)
right now im swinging between the Half-orc and the Swashbuckler one which boils down to UAI vs. Grand Mastery and flat Boni
Higher Orc Strength of 24vs22 nets 2hit/DMG which is the Bonus of the swash.
so its 1/2APR 2THAC0 3DMG From Grand Mastery/Faster THAC0 Progression 2AC VS UAI and all the Thief Goodies.
writing it down and reading it out Loud i somewhat fancy the Orc Right now~
1
Comments
The Swashbuckler 6 -> Fighter you can comfortably dual at a later level as well, unless you plan on using it in BG1 also. In BG2, there is a lot of XP and the early levels are on very easy brackets. You can go all the way to lvl 11 as a Thief before the BG2 xp curve kicks in (1-11 needs the same XP as 11-12, or any one level thereafter). That'll stack more Swashbuckler bonuses at the cost of some HP, which is usually worth it for an offense-oriented character. But in the end, whether or not you make that trade depends on your playstyle and preference.
The Swash 6 is because its the Soonest you can have 100 Trap find and Lock pick, still get +"1"hit/dmg/2ac and can unfold your Character in BG1 rather than BG2 for one measly hit/dmg/ac(since additional 4 thief lvl bring you detect illusion 100 at best as swash) on the cost of a bunch of HP and Time.
The second one is crap for ToB but in SoA you wreck everything. The first one has a weak BG1 but then it's the most savage thing in the world (you won't have much HP but that rarely matters since you'll want to get five Prof. Points in Katana/Darts/Crossbows/Staves/Longswords and chunk everything that gets in your way before they can kill you).
Also what do you mean by "No traps?" you can rest forever and try to set the basic Thief traps (it sucks to wait so much but hell, it does work well).
Swash, I feel, is weak on higher difficulties. Lower hp is not a good enough trade. The hit point loss is not small and will mean deaths unless you play on easier difficulties. I want to like swash and have tried hard to design him competitively against other thief setups but he always falls short. Also, it may interest you to know that you do not get +2 dmg/hit with a 6 swash. You only get 1. You start with +1 AC... but not the dmg/hit. You only acquire damage as you level.
If you have time, the dual F9/T will edge out and clobber just about any other setup with GM. Add the well known kensai combo to that and you'll have 6 more damage than most other setups, all the time. Damage that is multiplied by backstabs. If you're playing IR, kensai can even wear bracers. Not that there is a lack of methods to get AC to a kensai without bracers.
Second place goes to the multi. The multi is very clean, even if less damaging all of bg1 and most of bg2 after the kensai9/T. Halforc in IR is an interesting choice for a multi F/T. If you aren't playing IR, halfling is the way to go. Much more base thief skills with extra dex/thaco to throw broken throwing daggers. BG1 you can get a cursed belt that will grant 19 strength... and it's worth wearing. BG2 you just buy the 19 strength belt almost immediately after exiting Irenicus' dungeon. The multi is handy if you're starting from BG1 as you will not need another character to pick up thief duties. However it is worth noting... a thief isn't all the important in the first game.
you are right its just 1hit/dmg , clear reading sure is a good skill to have :P
F9/T is just too slow and i will not have any thiefing skills in BG1 and i dont wanna drag around a Pure thief just for that , in fact i hate almost all thief's of their personality (especially you imon) and the ones i like come like half way down the game if not later
as for Kensai ..hes highly overrated and im not bothering another 20 hours with an armorless whimp who needs an amulet to not die to a kobold (aka fuck kensais i hate them and pairing them up with thiefs UAI feel like borderline cheating)
@CrevsDaak Assasin 9 would barely have 100 lockpick/findtraps would lose all fighter bonus hp and trade 2 AC for 3x Poison weapon (in baldurs gate 1 i could just use poison dagger and get free poisoning of the bat, infact the only kensai i ever played had all * in dagger did about 20-30 dmg a hit and killed people long before poison ticked , only expection where mages with mirrior image and stone skin which dies just minimal slower..and in baldurs gate 2 1 poison dmg doesnt sound so quaint) , the whole sneaking business multiplier would fall off totally.
also i try to play with a minimum of "rest abuse"
Traps....yeah traps....tried one by the belt ogre....killed imoen outright as she set it .. so im not touching that without serious skill investment. and once i have that its way easier to buff chant/bless/haste/flavorstuff and steamroll enemy's.
but nobody shall call me Ignorant or Learning resistant so i meddled some around with the Assassin (mostly because the basic black/nightblue color scheme is very appealing) and have more questions than anything.
First of all Poison Weapon: tin says 1 Round , which should be 6 seconds , i counted , duration is ~24 seconds , messed some around and Poisoned wintrop and Firebeard with the same skilluse, so i guess fuck what the tin says its 4 round of whop-ass ?
Secondly Weapon-choice, i don't know if the Tuigan Bow is in BGEE (in which case i would bloody use him), but as for BG2 i can have the +3 dart right away keeping me save and with a good amount of APR, also there are a lot of crazy darts in BGEE and money isn't an issue. and im eyeing for the APR since 12 chances applying my poison sounds way better than 4. also if i had to melee im nudged around between Varscona and Poison dagger both break through Mirror image but the dagger seems to be the more potent mage killer.
Thiefing Skills. i know all stuff in Durlags Tower needs 100 Lock/Trap but things like Kiels buckler with +1 dex , the Tome +1 Dex Lums machine etc etc. will stack up 5% on all thief skills each, worst case i get myself some Potions of Perception who do it for 30 min a pop what should easy be 1+2 floors or more.
So How High should i set Lock/Trap , and will the leftovers with some equipment (like the sneaky boots and the armor) be enough to actually Sneak around.
Which brings us to the Last point , i know the thread is Fighter Thief. but being actually 9 Level Thief i don't see much point going to Fighter , you cant wear better armor or your Thief skills are off, you cant use the new unlocked weapons or your back-stab wont work which reduces you being a thief even more. so all you get is slightly more APR and better hit values. on a fighter with like half its HP.
wouldn't it be better to go > mage then, because that actually had give you a +to hp , armor isn't a issue with 1rk ghost armor. so Assassin> Fighter would weaken the fighter while Assassin> Mage would Strengthen the mage.
EDIT: Fooling more around with Assassin/Mage , poison applies on Melfs Minute Meteorite and Energy Blades.....just cant tell if it stacks. crazy stuff
i ramble and theorize too much o-o
I am thinking of doing a dwarven fighter/thief multi run (using your own avatar photo, which is one of my favorites
I am looking forward to trying out new weapon switching and also the new SoD weaponry, e.g. short swords, bows.
I could be tempted to replace axe though for dagger and enjoy the throwing axes, but do they get strength bonuses in BG2EE yet?
Throwing axes and throwing hammers will now add strength bonus to damage when ranged - BG2EE (11137)
Throwing axes no longer apply the wielder's strength bonus to THAC0 when when used at range - BGEE (18177)
https://forums.beamdog.com/discussion/47588/change-log-for-v2-0
I run 3 dwarves to take advantage of the previously mention throwing hammers and axes. I run a Dwarven defender who uses axes. Best TANK in the game IMO. And Dwarven Fighter cleric that uses hamers. I NEVER have to buy sling bullets again once I get the dwarven throwing hammer from trademeet.
I could for example go with 2 pips in short swords/daggers at level 1 and then add TWF at 3,6, and 9. Daggers would be my (now zero weight with the patch) ranged weapon. I could then add crossbow at the later 12 and 15 level-ups for Firetooth.
Or better to take crossbow first and then daggers later for ranged/melee? LCOS is better than the non-magical throwing daggers in BGEE, even with 19+ strength. Another build could be crossbow/short swords at 1, add daggers at 3 and 6 (using Dagger of Venom), and then add TWF at 9, 12, and 15. This is late for that 3rd TWF pip but the first two in TWF are the most important.
When I get to ToB I am going to get the spectral band scimitar that does 1-4 cold damage and is a +5 weapon that has armour piercing strike once per day
*sadface*
Edit: sorry crossbow not longbow.
Edit edit:
Level 8 SD gives u 80 locks 80 traps 80 hide shadows 30 move silent and 25 pickpocket.
You will find gear that will put your main 80s over 100 ... you're only really lacking detect illusion... added in with yummy bonus from your weapons are you really going to miss detecting illusions or trying to use a magical item when you can just vanish from ... everything... anytime... Ala staff magi?.....
A lvl 12 SD gives you basically true sight if you really want detect illusion.
i would actually start **Dagger ** Two Weapon fight, you now have a solid 2,5 APR throwing and melee Option .. enchanted dagger are easy to get as dirt and no other NPC uses them, and once you buy DoV you can give every spellcaster the Bird.
Crossbows are until BG2 Firetooth+4 not really interesting, and there its the high enchantment easy accessibility and unlimited ammo that makes it soooo good.
Same as for Shortswords aside the quite handy +3 in BG1 there is no real reason to spam pips just yet.
and for the Third pip in TWF i would consider not using it.. and rather spend that point in a Blunt weapon since your arsenal is all Piercing and Missile, and once you fight a Golem trying to re-arrange your head down your chest out your Arse you really wish you wouldn't have those +5 THAC0 on that (insert Blunt weapon) you never swung in your life..(club is a neat idea since you can still dual wield and use Kudane extra APR and backstab with it !)
also going Shadowdancer first will cut down on your HP, by a lot! , you will be a Wimp in BG1 compared to a fighter and if there is any time a pure Fighter shines its BG1. you cant even backstab since you chose a Kit with -1, in my personal opinion Shadowdancer is the worst Thief kit to dual From.
also dualing to a Thief will give you all the Skill points you ever need... and UAI so for your 3 millionXP+ game(late SoD) you can work in scrolls and fancy magic and by that point you swim in gold so its just a game to find and buy scrolls (also get a 24 hp familiar boost to your bat shit crazy Fighter HP) and you can use staff of the Magi which is a instant Invisibility 100% reliant.
Go Fighter till level 7 in BGEE, which will allow you to reach Assassin lvl 8 in BGEE and you will get GM in one class of weapons (just go for it directly with the Fighter).
Yes, the Assassin has a bit less thieving skills so it will suck a bit till around lvl 6-7 as a Thief, but this setup begs you to go "fighting-thief" and not "utility thief". Also, better backstab, Assassins ability to poison weapons and innate +1 to hit and dam will make it a very powerful character.
** it's a bit of a cheat to dual INTO a kit. Or bending the rules. Your choice. Here's how to do it.
- create a new char of the kit you want to dual-class into (don't mind the thieving skills, you'll have to reassign them anyway)
- open the save in EEKeeper and change the class into Fighter, change profeciencies and HP to the Fighter's one. KEEP the kit.
- the game will treat the character as a Fighter from now on, but after you dual-class, it will grant you all the abilities and perks of the kit and keep treating your char as the kit. (Somehow, this doesn't work on Mage specialisation)
EE Keeper is only Booted up to fix Broken quests/Bugs, and if i would cheat into a kit its a Swashbuckler. trading backstabs for 2 AC and steady raising dmg/Thac0 for Grand master Dual-wield 5 APR madness, yes please ! Assassins poison is just to Gimped for high APR characters now.
A swashbuckler dualed to a fighter is for me a bit redundant - why go for an almost fighter dualed to a fighter.
An assassin dualed first to a fighter is a fun combo - lots of things to try. But thieving skills will not be that great. Best advice is to dual when you have maxed out the thieving skills that are most useful to that class and not wait until backstab reaches its max - either way it is going to take a long time to do.
Assassin > mage is a lot of fun probably OP with its spells at higher level.
If you haven't tried Bounty Hunter (pure) its an enjoyable class as well - probably best to play pure because of its amazing traps (ignoring for the moment HLA traps). The only real issue is its limited use, micro-management and the fact that you need to employ a scout to know when and where to set the things and then to bring your foe to you -- but it does work wonders when it works properly - a well laid out plan that works is always nice.
Shadowdancer is a unique class - best for a mage dual (and you can dual rather early with max skills almost in hide/move) - backstab is horrible but it allows for some interesting spell casting/wand use and then running away to blow them up again without relying on invisibility potions or spells.
In the end it really depends on what type of thief you want to play: well it be the flamboyant swashbuckler, the deadly assassin, the bounty hunter or the spy/scout (since a shadowdancer is really just a spy/scout).