They look the same with the "Sprite Outlines" and "Highlight Selected sprites" options turned off, specifically the blurry look doesn't become sharp pixellated look.
I've noticed some weird inconsistencies with lighting, especially in dungeons. It seems like some light sources make the sprites way brighter than they should be. Also, sometimes the gradient from a light area to a shadowed area is gone and replaced by a hard line where the sprite goes from fully illuminated to fully shadowed in an instant.
Dee, I updated the BGEE beta client as of today, but the problem is still there. I also installed beta on my laptop. The "smoothness" of the sprites is still there as well as a thin outline line around the PC and NPC sprites.
Maybe the problem is in graphic drivers. I have nvidia card in both computers.
I asked a programmer, and the difference is a result of the scaling filter being changed. Previously, the filter used "nearest neighbor" scaling; now it uses "linear" scaling. I'll let you Google those terms if you want to know more, but the basics are this: linear is smoother, nearest neighbor preserves more pixel fidelity. Different people are going to have different opinions on which method they like better. Personally, I like the smoother sprites, but I can see why someone wouldn't.
There's currently no way to change the filter back (as you've noticed, even turning off Sprite Outlines keeps it in "nearest neighbor"), but if this is important to you, I recommend creating a Feature-type ticket on Redmine. I'll make sure it gets a look, although I can't promise it'll happen before the v2.0 update goes live.
I must say that I prefer old look much more. I just spent 30 minutes going through game with both versions and for me pixelated look is much better than smoother look and much more true to the original BG game (well that was kinda obvious ).
What is especially noticeable is the head of PC and NPCs. If you look closely, pixelated look gives more detail to the head and look somehow like that face has more features.
I will submit the ticket, and if it cannot be reversed, I can always play 1.3 version of the game.
And for the expansion... well I will have to adapt obviously...
I would say that you are doing great job with the EE versions of the game, but you are maybe doing some things that are not necessary to be changed/improved and which can change atmosphere of the game too much. At least you are trying hard to give us an option to toggle on/off new features and for that the whole community is very grateful.
And that you are giving us new expansion for BG after 20 years... I cannot thank you enough.
I asked a programmer, and the difference is a result of the scaling filter being changed. Previously, the filter used "nearest neighbor" scaling; now it uses "linear" scaling. I'll let you Google those terms if you want to know more, but the basics are this: linear is smoother, nearest neighbor preserves more pixel fidelity. Different people are going to have different opinions on which method they like better. Personally, I like the smoother sprites, but I can see why someone wouldn't.
There's currently no way to change the filter back (as you've noticed, even turning off Sprite Outlines keeps it in "nearest neighbor"), but if this is important to you, I recommend creating a Feature-type ticket on Redmine. I'll make sure it gets a look, although I can't promise it'll happen before the v2.0 update goes live.
I knew you (Beamdog) stopped using Nearest Neighbour even though it's the best at preserving fidelity in low resolution graphics. Linear and other similar forms of scaling blur the graphics and destroy detail in the process, Lanczos is prolly one of the better upscalers when it comes to retaining the original fidelity while smoothing the graphics but I believe it has absurd system requirements. Linear scaling coupled with mip mapping & Anistrophic Filtering is more ideal for 3D models and environments like the world in DOOM (Not the enemies, item pickups, sprites).
In any case, I would love an option to revert to Nearest Neighbour. The aesthetic was designed with this in mind.
> @pointfiveo said: > Dee said: > > > You're absolutely right, it does look different. > > I asked a programmer, and the difference is a result of the scaling filter being changed. Previously, the filter used "nearest neighbor" scaling; now it uses "linear" scaling. I'll let you Google those terms if you want to know more, but the basics are this: linear is smoother, nearest neighbor preserves more pixel fidelity. Different people are going to have different opinions on which method they like better. Personally, I like the smoother sprites, but I can see why someone wouldn't. > > There's currently no way to change the filter back (as you've noticed, even turning off Sprite Outlines keeps it in "nearest neighbor"), but if this is important to you, I recommend creating a Feature-type ticket on Redmine. I'll make sure it gets a look, although I can't promise it'll happen before the v2.0 update goes live. > > > > > I ask you. How does the programmer justify screwing with the original game resources to this extent? Don't you see?! You're making a decision on the filter for everyone and clearly not nearly everyone agrees it looks better. This is comparable to an amateur photographer who is afraid of high ISO grain so he smooths everything out in Lr thinking it looks better — Fidelity is lost. The bottom line is that you're making 2.0 look worse than 1.3 and all you have to say is "Tough luck. Make a feature request." > > I love this game too damn much to just meekly watch Beamdog destroy it. So I'm going to moan until you come to your senses. Feel free to pass this verbatim to whoever is responsible for this.
I'm saying if you feel strongly about it, make a ticket so we can take it to the programmers and investigate the possibility of doing something about it. I'm telling you to use the Feature tracker so that it gets sorted into the right pile and doesn't get dismissed.
I'm trying to help you get what you want, is what I'm trying to say.
> @Adul said: > Isn't the scaling filter only relevant when a zoom level other than 100% is used? I assume 100% zoom still looks the same as in vanilla?
The difference is less pronounced but still there. The scaling method has been changed (and a lot of people do seem to like it). If people want the option to change it back, I recommend making a ticket for it.
> @Franpa said: > You're absolutely right, it does look different. > > I asked a programmer, and the difference is a result of the scaling filter being changed. Previously, the filter used "nearest neighbor" scaling; now it uses "linear" scaling. I'll let you Google those terms if you want to know more, but the basics are this: linear is smoother, nearest neighbor preserves more pixel fidelity. Different people are going to have different opinions on which method they like better. Personally, I like the smoother sprites, but I can see why someone wouldn't. > > There's currently no way to change the filter back (as you've noticed, even turning off Sprite Outlines keeps it in "nearest neighbor"), but if this is important to you, I recommend creating a Feature-type ticket on Redmine. I'll make sure it gets a look, although I can't promise it'll happen before the v2.0 update goes live. > > > > I knew you (Beamdog) stopped using Nearest Neighbour even though it's the best at preserving fidelity in low resolution graphics. Linear and other similar forms of scaling blur the graphics and destroy detail in the process, Lanczos is prolly one of the better upscalers when it comes to retaining the original fidelity while smoothing the graphics but I believe it has absurd system requirements. Linear scaling coupled with mip mapping & Anistrophic Filtering is more ideal for 3D models and environments like the world in DOOM (Not the enemies, item pickups, sprites). > > In any case, I would love an option to revert to Nearest Neighbour. The aesthetic was designed with this in mind. > > My bug report (Created on the 11th): http://redmine.beamdog.com/issues/20933
Didn't see this until just now, but thank you! I'll pass this along, assuming they haven't already seen it.
Edit: one little note-- the scaling method being discussed here is applicable to the sprites, not the UI.
nice changes beamdog i like all the changes so far but i think you guys know that some changes can be wrong for some baldurs fans beacause there are people that dont want to see changes but i personally think that the changes must happen for this game to go on and for new gamers. Please dont go back stay strong in your changes cause i love it and i want to do a new walkthrough again with all the changes when the 2.0 update goes live.
I've noticed in other remakes/enhanced editions lineal filtering is often of one the biggest complaints, the backlash FFIV and FFV have received over doing this on their recent steam re-releases has been massive. FFV sprites were so blurred that its the only game i've ever requested a refund on in 20 years.
I've noticed in other remakes/enhanced editions lineal filtering is often of one the biggest complaints, the backlash FFIV and FFV have received over doing this on their recent steam re-releases has been massive. FFV sprites were so blurred that its the only game i've ever requested a refund on in 20 years.
That's because the graphics are often designed for your eyes to do the interpolating/adding detail themselves, their not designed for the game to do that step for you. ie: Use your imagination!
When I watched the SoD trailer there was something bothering me about the sprites (other than the black outline) but I couldn't really put my finger on it. Now I know what it was.
I really hope Beamdog will add an option to use the old scaling filter. Kinda makes me not want to buy any of the EE games the way they look now...
I've noticed in other remakes/enhanced editions lineal filtering is often of one the biggest complaints, the backlash FFIV and FFV have received over doing this on their recent steam re-releases has been massive. FFV sprites were so blurred that its the only game i've ever requested a refund on in 20 years.
Just a note: Final Fantasy IV, V, and VI use pixel-drawn sprites, not sprites derived from 3D models. Baldur's Gate's sprites were created using 3D models, rather than being hand-drawn pixel by pixel.
That's not to say that there isn't room for differing tastes, but I don't know that I would go so far as to say that, as @Franpa stated, the sprites were designed to be viewed in all their pixelated glory.
That being said, an option to switch to "nearest neighbor" isn't a bad idea. I'll polish up one of the tickets requesting the option and get it submitted.
I just had a close look at the sprites on a HD tablet screen in 1.3 (wich is pixels everywhere) and they really don't look that much like a hand-crafted mosaic piece of art where someone put every pixel just in the right place to make things look good despite the low resolution. So i don't see much obligation that this "art" has to be preserved exactly as it was generated (not designed!) back in 1998/2000, and if a filter makes them look better to some, a filter it shall be.
That said, options are good, i can't tell yet which one i'll prefer after some time getting adjusted to the new look.
Not every option has to have a GUI setting representing it, this could easily become a "configuration file only" setting and I doubt many would complain because it is largely a "set it and forget it" situation.
Here's a comparison of v1.3 (left with v2.00 (right). Don't zoom the images in your web browser if you want an accurate demonstration of the difference (Web browsers tend to not use a smoothing upscaler when upscaling/zooming images which ruins the comparison)
Edit: bah this image comparison was terrible.
To me the Player Character looks slightly better in v1.3 (The green guy looks bad in both images).
Not every option has to have a GUI setting representing it, this could easily become a "configuration file only" setting and I doubt many would complain because it is largely a "set it and forget it" situation.
I disagree. If it's easily toggable enough in the ini settings, then it's only a small step to add a checkbox for it in the options interface. Plenty of people aren't savvy enough to find that ini file, while others may be on a platform where it's nearly impossible to edit!
And personally, if there is an options screen, I expect all the options to be on that screen, and not half of them hidden in a .ini setting. I wouldn't even think to look there if I didn't know it was there!
Well, now that the configuration file uses a much more complex formatting (v1.3 and v2.0) for no discernible reason (Compared to the INI file from vanilla Baldur's Gate) you might be right. It also doesn't help that the configuration file uses Carriage Returns that are incompatible with Notepad.
The config file is in Lua now, because it allows us to do more with that file that we couldn't do before. But that file is also not intended for everyday use.
Comments
Both options turned off at Main Menu before beginning gameplay: http://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=646780183
They look the same with the "Sprite Outlines" and "Highlight Selected sprites" options turned off, specifically the blurry look doesn't become sharp pixellated look.
Maybe the problem is in graphic drivers. I have nvidia card in both computers.
I really hope that this can be solved...
I asked a programmer, and the difference is a result of the scaling filter being changed. Previously, the filter used "nearest neighbor" scaling; now it uses "linear" scaling. I'll let you Google those terms if you want to know more, but the basics are this: linear is smoother, nearest neighbor preserves more pixel fidelity. Different people are going to have different opinions on which method they like better. Personally, I like the smoother sprites, but I can see why someone wouldn't.
There's currently no way to change the filter back (as you've noticed, even turning off Sprite Outlines keeps it in "nearest neighbor"), but if this is important to you, I recommend creating a Feature-type ticket on Redmine. I'll make sure it gets a look, although I can't promise it'll happen before the v2.0 update goes live.
I must say that I prefer old look much more. I just spent 30 minutes going through game with both versions and for me pixelated look is much better than smoother look and much more true to the original BG game (well that was kinda obvious
What is especially noticeable is the head of PC and NPCs. If you look closely, pixelated look gives more detail to the head and look somehow like that face has more features.
I will submit the ticket, and if it cannot be reversed, I can always play 1.3 version of the game.
And for the expansion... well I will have to adapt obviously...
I would say that you are doing great job with the EE versions of the game, but you are maybe doing some things that are not necessary to be changed/improved and which can change atmosphere of the game too much. At least you are trying hard to give us an option to toggle on/off new features and for that the whole community is very grateful.
And that you are giving us new expansion for BG after 20 years... I cannot thank you enough.
Best,
aa
In any case, I would love an option to revert to Nearest Neighbour. The aesthetic was designed with this in mind.
My bug report (Created on the 11th): http://redmine.beamdog.com/issues/20933
It makes it look more modern and of higher quality than the old low-rez sprites.
Perhaps even giving it a comic-book or cell-shaded look which makes it look less old and more defined.
> Dee said:
>
>
> You're absolutely right, it does look different.
>
> I asked a programmer, and the difference is a result of the scaling filter being changed. Previously, the filter used "nearest neighbor" scaling; now it uses "linear" scaling. I'll let you Google those terms if you want to know more, but the basics are this: linear is smoother, nearest neighbor preserves more pixel fidelity. Different people are going to have different opinions on which method they like better. Personally, I like the smoother sprites, but I can see why someone wouldn't.
>
> There's currently no way to change the filter back (as you've noticed, even turning off Sprite Outlines keeps it in "nearest neighbor"), but if this is important to you, I recommend creating a Feature-type ticket on Redmine. I'll make sure it gets a look, although I can't promise it'll happen before the v2.0 update goes live.
>
>
>
>
> I ask you. How does the programmer justify screwing with the original game resources to this extent? Don't you see?! You're making a decision on the filter for everyone and clearly not nearly everyone agrees it looks better. This is comparable to an amateur photographer who is afraid of high ISO grain so he smooths everything out in Lr thinking it looks better — Fidelity is lost. The bottom line is that you're making 2.0 look worse than 1.3 and all you have to say is "Tough luck. Make a feature request."
>
> I love this game too damn much to just meekly watch Beamdog destroy it. So I'm going to moan until you come to your senses. Feel free to pass this verbatim to whoever is responsible for this.
I'm saying if you feel strongly about it, make a ticket so we can take it to the programmers and investigate the possibility of doing something about it. I'm telling you to use the Feature tracker so that it gets sorted into the right pile and doesn't get dismissed.
I'm trying to help you get what you want, is what I'm trying to say.
> Isn't the scaling filter only relevant when a zoom level other than 100% is used? I assume 100% zoom still looks the same as in vanilla?
The difference is less pronounced but still there. The scaling method has been changed (and a lot of people do seem to like it). If people want the option to change it back, I recommend making a ticket for it.
> You're absolutely right, it does look different.
>
> I asked a programmer, and the difference is a result of the scaling filter being changed. Previously, the filter used "nearest neighbor" scaling; now it uses "linear" scaling. I'll let you Google those terms if you want to know more, but the basics are this: linear is smoother, nearest neighbor preserves more pixel fidelity. Different people are going to have different opinions on which method they like better. Personally, I like the smoother sprites, but I can see why someone wouldn't.
>
> There's currently no way to change the filter back (as you've noticed, even turning off Sprite Outlines keeps it in "nearest neighbor"), but if this is important to you, I recommend creating a Feature-type ticket on Redmine. I'll make sure it gets a look, although I can't promise it'll happen before the v2.0 update goes live.
>
>
>
> I knew you (Beamdog) stopped using Nearest Neighbour even though it's the best at preserving fidelity in low resolution graphics. Linear and other similar forms of scaling blur the graphics and destroy detail in the process, Lanczos is prolly one of the better upscalers when it comes to retaining the original fidelity while smoothing the graphics but I believe it has absurd system requirements. Linear scaling coupled with mip mapping & Anistrophic Filtering is more ideal for 3D models and environments like the world in DOOM (Not the enemies, item pickups, sprites).
>
> In any case, I would love an option to revert to Nearest Neighbour. The aesthetic was designed with this in mind.
>
> My bug report (Created on the 11th): http://redmine.beamdog.com/issues/20933
Didn't see this until just now, but thank you! I'll pass this along, assuming they haven't already seen it.
Edit: one little note-- the scaling method being discussed here is applicable to the sprites, not the UI.
Not that I would use outline. It's one of the first options to be disabled.
That's not to say that there isn't room for differing tastes, but I don't know that I would go so far as to say that, as @Franpa stated, the sprites were designed to be viewed in all their pixelated glory.
That being said, an option to switch to "nearest neighbor" isn't a bad idea. I'll polish up one of the tickets requesting the option and get it submitted.
So i don't see much obligation that this "art" has to be preserved exactly as it was generated (not designed!) back in 1998/2000, and if a filter makes them look better to some, a filter it shall be.
That said, options are good, i can't tell yet which one i'll prefer after some time getting adjusted to the new look.
Edit: bah this image comparison was terrible.
To me the Player Character looks slightly better in v1.3 (The green guy looks bad in both images).
I reported it, it's already submitted. http://support.baldursgate.com/issues/21473#change-121757
I disagree. If it's easily toggable enough in the ini settings, then it's only a small step to add a checkbox for it in the options interface. Plenty of people aren't savvy enough to find that ini file, while others may be on a platform where it's nearly impossible to edit!
And personally, if there is an options screen, I expect all the options to be on that screen, and not half of them hidden in a .ini setting. I wouldn't even think to look there if I didn't know it was there!
That would imply that the file is intended for everyday use, which it's not.