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How do you like the look of character models in the game now?

1356

Comments

  • aarionnaarionn Member Posts: 78
    That line was already present in the baldur.lua file and the value was 1.0

  • FranpaFranpa Member Posts: 636
    edited March 2016
    Both options turned on at Main Menu before beginning gameplay: http://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=646780195
    Both options turned off at Main Menu before beginning gameplay: http://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=646780183

    They look the same with the "Sprite Outlines" and "Highlight Selected sprites" options turned off, specifically the blurry look doesn't become sharp pixellated look.

    JuliusBorisov
  • AdulAdul Member Posts: 1,908
    I've noticed some weird inconsistencies with lighting, especially in dungeons. It seems like some light sources make the sprites way brighter than they should be. Also, sometimes the gradient from a light area to a shadowed area is gone and replaced by a hard line where the sprite goes from fully illuminated to fully shadowed in an instant.

    JuliusBorisov
  • aarionnaarionn Member Posts: 78
    Dee, I updated the BGEE beta client as of today, but the problem is still there. I also installed beta on my laptop. The "smoothness" of the sprites is still there as well as a thin outline line around the PC and NPC sprites.

    Maybe the problem is in graphic drivers. I have nvidia card in both computers.

    I really hope that this can be solved...

  • ArchaosArchaos Member Posts: 1,419
    I like the outlines as well.
    It makes it look more modern and of higher quality than the old low-rez sprites.

    Perhaps even giving it a comic-book or cell-shaded look which makes it look less old and more defined.

    mlnevese
  • pointfiveopointfiveo Member Posts: 35
    edited March 2016
    Dee said:
    You're absolutely right, it does look different. I asked a programmer, and the difference is a result of the scaling filter being changed. Previously, the filter used "nearest neighbor" scaling; now it uses "linear" scaling. I'll let you Google those terms if you want to know more, but the basics are this: linear is smoother, nearest neighbor preserves more pixel fidelity. Different people are going to have different opinions on which method they like better. Personally, I like the smoother sprites, but I can see why someone wouldn't. There's currently no way to change the filter back (as you've noticed, even turning off Sprite Outlines keeps it in "nearest neighbor"), but if this is important to you, I recommend creating a Feature-type ticket on Redmine. I'll make sure it gets a look, although I can't promise it'll happen before the v2.0 update goes live.
    I ask you. How does the programmer justify screwing with the original game resources to this extent? Don't you see?! You're making a decision on the filter for everyone and clearly not nearly everyone agrees it looks better. This is comparable to an amateur photographer who is afraid of high ISO grain so he smooths everything out in Lr thinking it looks better — Fidelity is lost. The bottom line is that you're making 2.0 look worse than 1.3 and all you have to say is "Tough luck. Make a feature request."

    I love this game too damn much to just meekly watch Beamdog destroy it. So I'm going to moan until you come to your senses. Feel free to pass this verbatim to whoever is responsible for this.

  • AdulAdul Member Posts: 1,908
    Isn't the scaling filter only relevant when a zoom level other than 100% is used? I assume 100% zoom still looks the same as in vanilla?

  • DeeDee Member Posts: 10,447
    > @pointfiveo said:
    > Dee said:
    >
    >
    > You're absolutely right, it does look different.
    >
    > I asked a programmer, and the difference is a result of the scaling filter being changed. Previously, the filter used "nearest neighbor" scaling; now it uses "linear" scaling. I'll let you Google those terms if you want to know more, but the basics are this: linear is smoother, nearest neighbor preserves more pixel fidelity. Different people are going to have different opinions on which method they like better. Personally, I like the smoother sprites, but I can see why someone wouldn't.
    >
    > There's currently no way to change the filter back (as you've noticed, even turning off Sprite Outlines keeps it in "nearest neighbor"), but if this is important to you, I recommend creating a Feature-type ticket on Redmine. I'll make sure it gets a look, although I can't promise it'll happen before the v2.0 update goes live.
    >
    >
    >
    >
    > I ask you. How does the programmer justify screwing with the original game resources to this extent? Don't you see?! You're making a decision on the filter for everyone and clearly not nearly everyone agrees it looks better. This is comparable to an amateur photographer who is afraid of high ISO grain so he smooths everything out in Lr thinking it looks better — Fidelity is lost. The bottom line is that you're making 2.0 look worse than 1.3 and all you have to say is "Tough luck. Make a feature request."
    >
    > I love this game too damn much to just meekly watch Beamdog destroy it. So I'm going to moan until you come to your senses. Feel free to pass this verbatim to whoever is responsible for this.

    I'm saying if you feel strongly about it, make a ticket so we can take it to the programmers and investigate the possibility of doing something about it. I'm telling you to use the Feature tracker so that it gets sorted into the right pile and doesn't get dismissed.

    I'm trying to help you get what you want, is what I'm trying to say.

    Ithual
  • DeeDee Member Posts: 10,447
    > @Adul said:
    > Isn't the scaling filter only relevant when a zoom level other than 100% is used? I assume 100% zoom still looks the same as in vanilla?

    The difference is less pronounced but still there. The scaling method has been changed (and a lot of people do seem to like it). If people want the option to change it back, I recommend making a ticket for it.

    Adul
  • DeeDee Member Posts: 10,447
    edited March 2016
    > @Franpa said:
    > You're absolutely right, it does look different.
    >
    > I asked a programmer, and the difference is a result of the scaling filter being changed. Previously, the filter used "nearest neighbor" scaling; now it uses "linear" scaling. I'll let you Google those terms if you want to know more, but the basics are this: linear is smoother, nearest neighbor preserves more pixel fidelity. Different people are going to have different opinions on which method they like better. Personally, I like the smoother sprites, but I can see why someone wouldn't.
    >
    > There's currently no way to change the filter back (as you've noticed, even turning off Sprite Outlines keeps it in "nearest neighbor"), but if this is important to you, I recommend creating a Feature-type ticket on Redmine. I'll make sure it gets a look, although I can't promise it'll happen before the v2.0 update goes live.
    >
    >
    >
    > I knew you (Beamdog) stopped using Nearest Neighbour even though it's the best at preserving fidelity in low resolution graphics. Linear and other similar forms of scaling blur the graphics and destroy detail in the process, Lanczos is prolly one of the better upscalers when it comes to retaining the original fidelity while smoothing the graphics but I believe it has absurd system requirements. Linear scaling coupled with mip mapping & Anistrophic Filtering is more ideal for 3D models and environments like the world in DOOM (Not the enemies, item pickups, sprites).
    >
    > In any case, I would love an option to revert to Nearest Neighbour. The aesthetic was designed with this in mind.
    >
    > My bug report (Created on the 11th): http://redmine.beamdog.com/issues/20933

    Didn't see this until just now, but thank you! I'll pass this along, assuming they haven't already seen it.

    Edit: one little note-- the scaling method being discussed here is applicable to the sprites, not the UI.

    Post edited by Dee on
  • gus100gus100 Member Posts: 10
    nice changes beamdog i like all the changes so far but i think you guys know that some changes can be wrong for some baldurs fans beacause there are people that dont want to see changes but i personally think that the changes must happen for this game to go on and for new gamers. Please dont go back stay strong in your changes cause i love it and i want to do a new walkthrough again with all the changes when the 2.0 update goes live.

  • lroumenlroumen Member Posts: 1,818
    edited March 2016
    Hmmm. Outline looks decent zoomed out but awful zoomed in. Scaling the thickness of the outline with zoom level should be a great improvement.

    Not that I would use outline. It's one of the first options to be disabled.

  • BenjaminBenjamin Member Posts: 39
    @Dee ;

    I've noticed in other remakes/enhanced editions lineal filtering is often of one the biggest complaints, the backlash FFIV and FFV have received over doing this on their recent steam re-releases has been massive.
    FFV sprites were so blurred that its the only game i've ever requested a refund on in 20 years.

  • FranpaFranpa Member Posts: 636
    edited March 2016
    Benjamin said:
    @Dee ;

    I've noticed in other remakes/enhanced editions lineal filtering is often of one the biggest complaints, the backlash FFIV and FFV have received over doing this on their recent steam re-releases has been massive.
    FFV sprites were so blurred that its the only game i've ever requested a refund on in 20 years.
    That's because the graphics are often designed for your eyes to do the interpolating/adding detail themselves, their not designed for the game to do that step for you. ie: Use your imagination!

  • UlbUlb Member Posts: 267
    When I watched the SoD trailer there was something bothering me about the sprites (other than the black outline) but I couldn't really put my finger on it. Now I know what it was. I really hope Beamdog will add an option to use the old scaling filter. Kinda makes me not want to buy any of the EE games the way they look now...

  • BelegCuthalionBelegCuthalion Member, Mobile Tester Posts: 418
    I just had a close look at the sprites on a HD tablet screen in 1.3 (wich is pixels everywhere) and they really don't look that much like a hand-crafted mosaic piece of art where someone put every pixel just in the right place to make things look good despite the low resolution.
    So i don't see much obligation that this "art" has to be preserved exactly as it was generated (not designed!) back in 1998/2000, and if a filter makes them look better to some, a filter it shall be.

    That said, options are good, i can't tell yet which one i'll prefer after some time getting adjusted to the new look.

  • SirBatinceSirBatince Member Posts: 789
    My biggest concerns are the seams on the edges of the animations. Im surprised that hasnt been fixed yet.

  • FranpaFranpa Member Posts: 636
    Not every option has to have a GUI setting representing it, this could easily become a "configuration file only" setting and I doubt many would complain because it is largely a "set it and forget it" situation.

    XKal
  • DeeDee Member Posts: 10,447
    My biggest concerns are the seams on the edges of the animations. Im surprised that hasnt been fixed yet.
    Did you submit a ticket for this issue? (if so, can you provide a link?)

  • FranpaFranpa Member Posts: 636
    edited March 2016
    Here's a comparison of v1.3 (left with v2.00 (right). Don't zoom the images in your web browser if you want an accurate demonstration of the difference (Web browsers tend to not use a smoothing upscaler when upscaling/zooming images which ruins the comparison)

    Edit: bah this image comparison was terrible.

    To me the Player Character looks slightly better in v1.3 (The green guy looks bad in both images).

    Post edited by Franpa on
    AdulBelgarathMTHAbel
  • PeccaPecca Member Posts: 1,959
    Dee wrote: »
    SirBatince said:
    My biggest concerns are the seams on the edges of the animations. Im surprised that hasnt been fixed yet.

    Did you submit a ticket for this issue? (if so, can you provide a link?)

    I reported it, it's already submitted. http://support.baldursgate.com/issues/21473#change-121757

    JuliusBorisovDeeFlashburn
  • ThelsThels Member Posts: 1,322
    Franpa wrote: »
    Not every option has to have a GUI setting representing it, this could easily become a "configuration file only" setting and I doubt many would complain because it is largely a "set it and forget it" situation.

    I disagree. If it's easily toggable enough in the ini settings, then it's only a small step to add a checkbox for it in the options interface. Plenty of people aren't savvy enough to find that ini file, while others may be on a platform where it's nearly impossible to edit!

    And personally, if there is an options screen, I expect all the options to be on that screen, and not half of them hidden in a .ini setting. I wouldn't even think to look there if I didn't know it was there!

    AdulIthual
  • FranpaFranpa Member Posts: 636
    edited March 2016
    Well, now that the configuration file uses a much more complex formatting (v1.3 and v2.0) for no discernible reason (Compared to the INI file from vanilla Baldur's Gate) you might be right. It also doesn't help that the configuration file uses Carriage Returns that are incompatible with Notepad.

  • DeeDee Member Posts: 10,447
    The config file is in Lua now, because it allows us to do more with that file that we couldn't do before. But that file is also not intended for everyday use.

  • FranpaFranpa Member Posts: 636
    Well yeah, but surely you could retain a more human readable format and pass it through some parser that converts it to how it is now or something?

  • DeeDee Member Posts: 10,447
    Franpa wrote: »
    Well yeah, but surely you could retain a more human readable format and pass it through some parser that converts it to how it is now or something?

    That would imply that the file is intended for everyday use, which it's not.

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