For my goal, what is optimal is what nets me the shortest amount of time where Shadowstep is desactivated. And with SD9=>Mage, it is desactived 6 times longer that with SD5=>Mage
6 times longer? No way. How did you come up with that? Have you played a dual before? Mage 10 you can do right after exiting the starting dungeon.
To level a mage from level 1 to 6, you need 40.000xp To level a mage from level 1 to 10, you need 250.000xp, a bit more than 6 times more
I don't think you can gain 250.000xp in one shot at the end of chapter 1. You probably think about a solo-classed character which alread starts at level 9, which means it only need something like 100.000xp to reach 10, but I'm speaking there of a mage which starts over at level 1 due to dual-classing
@Moonheart 6 times more XP, yes, but that doesn't mean it takes 6 times longer. Anyway be that as it may it doesn't take very long at all, so don't worry.
Even 1mn longer is too much. I don't have -any- use for what the class gives from levels 6 to 9 within my current goals. I don't intent to sneak at all.
If you're not willing to use the console or EEKeeper, you're out of luck. Your only option is to start in BG1 and play until you've got the desired level. Then you need to dual class and export the character to BG2.
What exactly was your challenge? All I read was you wanted a level 5 Shadow Dancer so you could use their ability to disappear for a few seconds. I've yet to try one, but I would imagine your low thieving skills might make it hard to hide in shadows and sneak around.
Using the ability is considered an action, so you're using your round on that. As a mage you're already going to have a ton of options for Invisibility.
You're welcome to try and make it work, but this sounds like way more effort than it's worth. You would be better off with a slightly higher level thief, and just dual to Mage immediately. By the time you get out of Chateau Irenicus you should have a ton of XP under your belt. The dungeon provides plenty of easy XP and scrolls to scribe.
The Circus outside is easily doable even as a solo mage. You just need to hold onto a +1 or better weapon to damage the Shadows. More easy XP. Head off to the Copper Coronet and free the slaves for another chunk of XP. The Slaver Compound itself might be difficult, so no need to complete the arc if you're dying left and right.
For my goal, what is optimal is what nets me the shortest amount of time where Shadowstep is desactivated. And with SD9=>Mage, it is desactived 6 times longer that with SD5=>Mage
6 times longer? No way. How did you come up with that? Have you played a dual before? Mage 10 you can do right after exiting the starting dungeon.
To level a mage from level 1 to 6, you need 40.000xp To level a mage from level 1 to 10, you need 250.000xp, a bit more than 6 times more
I don't think you can gain 250.000xp in one shot at the end of chapter 1. You probably think about a solo-classed character which alread starts at level 9, which means it only need something like 100.000xp to reach 10, but I'm speaking there of a mage which starts over at level 1 due to dual-classing
Dualling right before the cutscene where Imoen is taken, selling all unused stuff, learning the scrolls you kept from Chateau Irenicus and buying a few scrolls with the money should get you to at least level 8. From there you can go to Kalah Circus, do it all and get the exp and some gold from it, buy some more scrolls. I am pretty sure you can get your 250k exp between the moment you leave chateau Irenicus and the time you go to the slums for the first time, doing only one very easy fight (Killing Kalah) in the mean time, that'd take 20min or less and disable Shadowstep for but one fight while being ten times as powerful as an earlier dual (level 5) would be.
And if this is not enough experience, you can get more doing the first part of Mae'Var quest (stealing the amulet/statue), or getting money (and thus, from scrolls, experience) from the locked doors in Mae'Var's Guildhall.
By the way there is no point in a shadowdancer that cannot properly use hide in plain sight. Shadowstep is not quite that strong either, mostly with a single use (repositioning once per day is pretty useless, and that's what shadowstep without hiding is. Not to mention hiding in plain sight gives you the same repositioning opportunity as many times as you like)
The point is.. oh well, I should perhaps explain it after all, but I wished to find a solution without risking to have people to say me how I should make my own challenge... But well... this discussion is hard to have while you don't understand while I want the shadowstep ability.
So far, during my current playthrough (the one I'm writing about in the playthrough section of the forum), I have almost turned every fight since the begining of the game to a total no-match, using the right preparations. Dragons, liches... whatever I encounter, with a bit of preparation, my character wins without taking a single damage point.
That's fights I can prepare, however... there is two things that does damage to my protagonist: 1- traps 2- scripted ambushes
So, I was wondering: "and what about truly attempting to do the whole game without suffering a single point of damage?" If I take some level of any thief kit, the trap problem will be easyly solved... which leave the scripted ambushes.
Invisibility is nice and efficient, but there is a lot of spellcasters running True Sight in Contingencies, making you unable to rely on it in case of an ambush. That is not as efficient than freezing everyone in time during 7s so you can get away for preparations
Cloak of Non-Detection could help to make invisibility more reliable IF I succeed to come to the point where I kill the group who has it without dying by the lack of a reliable option before that. Plus, I'm not sure that wearing the Cloak of Mirroring would not become a necessity for my challenge at some point...
Shadowstep doesn't cost anything as it come for "free" in the thief part I need for traps, and is not counterable by opponents, so it sounds a better option to me
I'd probably try: 1. Create Shadowdancer, save as soon as you can. 2. Use EEKeeper to set your level, XP and skills to that of a 5th level SD. 3. Load edited save, dual class, save. 4. Use EEKeeper to add back the XP you removed in step 2. 5. Load edited save, level up.
I found that starting from the cage as a non-imported Fighter and then dual-classing to Mage after dispatching the Golems, [with a full party ~ Minsc, Jaheira, Imoen, Yoshino] allowed me to reach Mage 7 shortly after rescuing Aerie.
The only fudge being that I dismissed the party during parts of the Genie Quest on the alternate plane after squashing the Mephits. And also perhaps while Imoen and Charname took down the Vampire.
@Moonheart, you already seem convinced to dual at level 5, so this is probably moot anyway, but if you were convinced to dual at level 9, you might wait until level 10 to get an extra shadow step.
Also, having a more reliable hide in plain sight makes a lot of sense, as hiding does not cost an aura wherein casting invisibility does. Shadow step does cost an aura, but it also has the duration of an aura so it's a wash in that regard.
Also, iirc the cloak of non-detection is available in waukeen's promenade. It's upstairs in the mithrest inn. (Or maybe the other inn next door. The one on the left, i believe.) You'll have to fight for it.
@FinnTheHuman I know where this cloak is, but you have to understand what I want to do: a no-damage-taken playthrough.
To use the cloak instead of the Shadowstep, I need to be able to win against that group: - Immediatly out of Irenicus dungeon - Without taking a single point of damage
Considering the spell level you have at the time, how narrow is the place where the battle will occur, and the fact it is triggered by a script, it's something that look very difficult, if not outright impossible. Otherwise, I would have considered to just play a standard thief/mage.
@Eadwyn_G8keeper, that scroll did you scribe? Those of Irenicus' dungeon only? Or including what you could buy outside?
I checked some game saves to be sure just now.
---- A) Berserker 7 XP-97K+. ~Chateau Irenicus before entering the Library en route to Duergars . Before having cleared Flesh Golems. Note: do not activate Golem that opens doors till after Dual Class [3000 risk-free XP]
-----B) Berserker 7 XP-101K+ after clearing Clay Golems. En route to Yoshino . -----C) Berserker 7 XP-108K+ after clearing the room with the Mephit Portals. Dual-Class moment. Note: The quest with freeing the Djinni on Elemental Plane of Air has yet to be completed. -----D) Berserker 7[inactive] Mage 5 26701 XP+ after the Vampire. -----E) After exit from Chateau Irenicus Mage 7 65714 XP /Berserker 7[inactive] -----F) With Jan Jansen and Aerie before Kalah encounter Mage 7 82848 [90000 needed for Mage 8]
The last total includes many scrolls memorized after the Big Heist but only as needed - no grinding. Many scrolls having been pilfered with a view to getting Imoen up to speed later on. I usually have a detailed shopping list before the Big Heist.
Of course this does not fit the challenge you are interested in as I was playing with full party.
Well, my problem with the dual-classing to do such a playthrough is that during the first level, I'll be unable do fight while pursuing the goal of the said playthrough (take no damage at all)
So what I need is the way to rush the first levels without doing any fight, so I can get back to combat once I have a few tools to pursue the challenge.
But fighting a few known battles that would be possible to prepare for shouldn't be impossible with that setup. Right? As a mage you should have some means of either killing the opponents before they can approach you or make sure you are not taking damage from them before you have killed them.
Although I must admit that I have never tried anything of the sort and don't really know what levels you can expect to be for those few fights. Level 1 would of course be much more troublesome than level 5..
To fight a few known battles, you need to travel between districts.
If you do, you'll get ambushes. Here lies the first difficulty: survive the early Akhatla's ambushes without taking a single scratch
With Shadowstep, it's a piece of cake... but then I need to recover this ability from dual classing before leaving the Promenade for the first time. Which is difficult.
With Invisibility, it's a matter of luck if the opponing mages cast True Sight or not early... to make it reliable, I should be able to kill the ennemies of the Den of the Seven Thieves, but that's not a trivial matter at such a level, and considering it is both a script-triggered fight AND a battle in a place which doesn't let any space to kite
Comments
To level a mage from level 1 to 10, you need 250.000xp, a bit more than 6 times more
I don't think you can gain 250.000xp in one shot at the end of chapter 1.
You probably think about a solo-classed character which alread starts at level 9, which means it only need something like 100.000xp to reach 10, but I'm speaking there of a mage which starts over at level 1 due to dual-classing
Using the ability is considered an action, so you're using your round on that. As a mage you're already going to have a ton of options for Invisibility.
You're welcome to try and make it work, but this sounds like way more effort than it's worth. You would be better off with a slightly higher level thief, and just dual to Mage immediately. By the time you get out of Chateau Irenicus you should have a ton of XP under your belt. The dungeon provides plenty of easy XP and scrolls to scribe.
The Circus outside is easily doable even as a solo mage. You just need to hold onto a +1 or better weapon to damage the Shadows. More easy XP. Head off to the Copper Coronet and free the slaves for another chunk of XP. The Slaver Compound itself might be difficult, so no need to complete the arc if you're dying left and right.
I am pretty sure you can get your 250k exp between the moment you leave chateau Irenicus and the time you go to the slums for the first time, doing only one very easy fight (Killing Kalah) in the mean time, that'd take 20min or less and disable Shadowstep for but one fight while being ten times as powerful as an earlier dual (level 5) would be.
And if this is not enough experience, you can get more doing the first part of Mae'Var quest (stealing the amulet/statue), or getting money (and thus, from scrolls, experience) from the locked doors in Mae'Var's Guildhall.
By the way there is no point in a shadowdancer that cannot properly use hide in plain sight. Shadowstep is not quite that strong either, mostly with a single use (repositioning once per day is pretty useless, and that's what shadowstep without hiding is. Not to mention hiding in plain sight gives you the same repositioning opportunity as many times as you like)
But well... this discussion is hard to have while you don't understand while I want the shadowstep ability.
So far, during my current playthrough (the one I'm writing about in the playthrough section of the forum), I have almost turned every fight since the begining of the game to a total no-match, using the right preparations. Dragons, liches... whatever I encounter, with a bit of preparation, my character wins without taking a single damage point.
That's fights I can prepare, however... there is two things that does damage to my protagonist:
1- traps
2- scripted ambushes
So, I was wondering: "and what about truly attempting to do the whole game without suffering a single point of damage?"
If I take some level of any thief kit, the trap problem will be easyly solved... which leave the scripted ambushes.
Invisibility is nice and efficient, but there is a lot of spellcasters running True Sight in Contingencies, making you unable to rely on it in case of an ambush. That is not as efficient than freezing everyone in time during 7s so you can get away for preparations
Cloak of Non-Detection could help to make invisibility more reliable IF I succeed to come to the point where I kill the group who has it without dying by the lack of a reliable option before that. Plus, I'm not sure that wearing the Cloak of Mirroring would not become a necessity for my challenge at some point...
Shadowstep doesn't cost anything as it come for "free" in the thief part I need for traps, and is not counterable by opponents, so it sounds a better option to me
1. Create Shadowdancer, save as soon as you can.
2. Use EEKeeper to set your level, XP and skills to that of a 5th level SD.
3. Load edited save, dual class, save.
4. Use EEKeeper to add back the XP you removed in step 2.
5. Load edited save, level up.
The only fudge being that I dismissed the party during parts of the Genie Quest on the alternate plane after squashing the Mephits. And also perhaps while Imoen and Charname took down the Vampire.
Also, having a more reliable hide in plain sight makes a lot of sense, as hiding does not cost an aura wherein casting invisibility does. Shadow step does cost an aura, but it also has the duration of an aura so it's a wash in that regard.
Also, iirc the cloak of non-detection is available in waukeen's promenade. It's upstairs in the mithrest inn. (Or maybe the other inn next door. The one on the left, i believe.) You'll have to fight for it.
I know where this cloak is, but you have to understand what I want to do: a no-damage-taken playthrough.
To use the cloak instead of the Shadowstep, I need to be able to win against that group:
- Immediatly out of Irenicus dungeon
- Without taking a single point of damage
Considering the spell level you have at the time, how narrow is the place where the battle will occur, and the fact it is triggered by a script, it's something that look very difficult, if not outright impossible.
Otherwise, I would have considered to just play a standard thief/mage.
---- A) Berserker 7 XP-97K+. ~Chateau Irenicus before entering the Library en route to Duergars . Before having cleared Flesh Golems. Note: do not activate Golem that opens doors till after Dual Class [3000 risk-free XP]
-----B) Berserker 7 XP-101K+ after clearing Clay Golems. En route to Yoshino .
-----C) Berserker 7 XP-108K+ after clearing the room with the Mephit Portals. Dual-Class moment. Note: The quest with freeing the Djinni on Elemental Plane of Air has yet to be completed.
-----D) Berserker 7[inactive] Mage 5 26701 XP+ after the Vampire.
-----E) After exit from Chateau Irenicus Mage 7 65714 XP /Berserker 7[inactive]
-----F) With Jan Jansen and Aerie before Kalah encounter Mage 7 82848 [90000 needed for Mage 8]
The last total includes many scrolls memorized after the Big Heist but only as needed - no grinding. Many scrolls having been pilfered with a view to getting Imoen up to speed later on. I usually have a detailed shopping list before the Big Heist.
Of course this does not fit the challenge you are interested in as I was playing with full party.
So what I need is the way to rush the first levels without doing any fight, so I can get back to combat once I have a few tools to pursue the challenge.
Although I must admit that I have never tried anything of the sort and don't really know what levels you can expect to be for those few fights. Level 1 would of course be much more troublesome than level 5..
If you do, you'll get ambushes. Here lies the first difficulty: survive the early Akhatla's ambushes without taking a single scratch
With Shadowstep, it's a piece of cake... but then I need to recover this ability from dual classing before leaving the Promenade for the first time. Which is difficult.
With Invisibility, it's a matter of luck if the opponing mages cast True Sight or not early... to make it reliable, I should be able to kill the ennemies of the Den of the Seven Thieves, but that's not a trivial matter at such a level, and considering it is both a script-triggered fight AND a battle in a place which doesn't let any space to kite
It is not really a trivial matter
Also you can most definitely leave the Promenade the first time without being ambushed. The first one doesn't happen until after you leave the Slums.