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UI changes

AaezilAaezil Member Posts: 178
in The Road to v2.0
The UI was fine before! Why are you changing everything for no reason? Ive heard people say that all the information is scattered on different screens now instead of the bulk of it being on the record page. What? Why? Is there any good reason at all for this?
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Comments

  • DoubledimasDoubledimas Member, Mobile Tester Posts: 1,286
    Have you tried the beta yourself or have you just read some comments? In the myriad of topics on the UI in this forum there are extensive examples and discussions of the how and why as well.
  • AaezilAaezil Member Posts: 178
    yep i'm playing it now. everything is changed around for no good reason. And how do i turn off those terrible black outlines on everybody?
  • DeeDee Member Posts: 10,447
    Options > Graphics has toggles for a number of things. Options > Gameplay has a bunch more.
  • DoubledimasDoubledimas Member, Mobile Tester Posts: 1,286
    It's toggable either in the graphics or gameplay menu (can't access the game right now so can't make certain).
  • AaezilAaezil Member Posts: 178
    i found it, but it only worked when i restarted the game lol
  • ThelsThels Member Posts: 1,422
    Having all the information cramping a single screen, rather than being neatly organized is a personal preference, not automatically a good thing.

    A major advantage of the new UI engine is that it is highly customizable, and Dee already gave us an example of a screen that looks quite a bit like the old one that he slapped together in just 2 hours, so you should expect custom UIs pop up not long after release.

    (That said, while I agree that the tabs are a good choice for the default interface, the organization and labels of said tabs is a horrible mess.)
  • AaezilAaezil Member Posts: 178
    Customizable is fine. Why not leave it exactly how it was before (which was good) and give people the option to change it if they don't like it? I'm just really really confused on why they choose to do it this way.
  • illathidillathid Member Posts: 320
    edited March 2016
    Aaezil wrote: »
    Customizable is fine. Why not leave it exactly how it was before (which was good) and give people the option to change it if they don't like it? I'm just really really confused on why they choose to do it this way.

    Because to make it easily customizable they had to start from scratch.
  • AdulAdul Member Posts: 2,002
    Instinctual aversion to change is part of the backlash, for sure, but I think most of is just up to personal preference. People don't react well when you mess with something they've been enjoying for 18 years and change it in ways they dislike.

    And don't forget that some of the UI changes make the game objectively worse, like the inventory lag that wasn't present in v1.3 or any previous versions.
  • BelegCuthalionBelegCuthalion Member, Mobile Tester Posts: 454
    edited March 2016
    Absolutely, I don't say everything new is good once we are used to it, I'm sure there is still a *lot* to improve on 2.0 ui after the aversion for change had gone away. I'm even sure it will be more buggy and aesthetically inconsistent on release than 1.3 was.
    But while the 1.3 concept had reached its limits and was made "perfect" within that boundaries, 2.0 has new potential for conceptual improvement, but will be far from perfect in execution yet. this new ui could be considered a 1.0 version of a whole new take on the topic, and a 1.0 is never a good thing, no matter how well it was tested.

    Anyway, something like inventory lag I consider to be an annoying bug, but nothing that puts a new concept as a whole in question. This can be solved without going back to the start.
    Post edited by BelegCuthalion on
  • AdulAdul Member Posts: 2,002
    edited March 2016
    If a redesign is flawed by concept, no amount of polish will get it to be as good as the original design was. I think a good example of this is the dialog window, which has taken quite a few steps backward compared to its last incarnation. Of course, that's not the end of the world. Beamdog always has the option to correct these mistakes, as long as they're willing to admit it when a concept is bad and issue a rollback when it's called for.

    Still, I predict a lot more dissenting voices making themselves heard after the 2.0 release. And I can sympathize with the inevitable cries of impatience. As a player, it can be frustrating when developers use you as a test subject for new experimental designs, possibly hindering your enjoyment of a game you had already paid for.

    Edit: Whether the inventory lag is a bug or a feature of the new UI, yet remains to be seen. The last update to the beta claimed to have already fixed the issue, but after playing this new version, I don't consider it to be fixed at all.
  • [Deleted User][Deleted User] Posts: 0
    edited March 2016
    The user and all related content has been deleted.
  • ThelsThels Member Posts: 1,422
    People seem to forget that there are two things going on here.

    First, the UIs engine is rewritten, allowing for a much wider platform of options, and much easier customization. This can only be a good thing!

    Second, the old UI obviously can't be run on the new UI engine, so a new UI had to be written as well. This new UI took some directions that are... less than optimal, but under the new UI engine, it shouldn't be too hard for them to realize their mistakes there and fix them.

    That said, while some issues are clearly problems, such as mouse lag, red boxes not fitting in their proper frame, text not aligned universally, etc... Other issues are a matter of taste. I personally welcome the arrival of a tabbed Character Screen, while others prefer to have all their information as a messy blurb that only works because they have used it for so long, they know exactly which number means what.
  • FranpaFranpa Member Posts: 637
    Thels said:
    Second, the old UI obviously can't be run on the new UI engine, so a new UI had to be written as well. This new UI took some directions that are... less than optimal, but under the new UI engine, it shouldn't be too hard for them to realize their mistakes there and fix them.

    Dee has already demonstrated that the new system can manage something extremely close to the old UI (Since he isn't an artist his example had shoddy visuals but the proof of concept was sound).
    Adul said:
    Edit: Whether the inventory lag is a bug or a feature of the new UI, yet remains to be seen. The last update to the beta claimed to have already fixed the issue, but after playing this new version, I don't consider it to be fixed at all.
    I believe it's caused by the highlighting of character portraits if the item is relevant to them. Instead of the game generating comparison stats for 1 character, it is now analyzing all characters in your party. The database searching is likely the slow portion of this process and there probably isn't much they can do about it (Other than offer an option to turn off this feature).
  • AaezilAaezil Member Posts: 178
    Still my question goes unanswered. There is absolutely no reason you can't keep it the way it was for the people who saw nothing wrong with the original layout - just rewrite it to look the same if you must rewrite. If people want it to be different, make that an option they can choose but don't force it on everyone. What is so bad about the original UI that it needs to be messed around with? 
  • illathidillathid Member Posts: 320
    Aaezil said:
    Still my question goes unanswered. There is absolutely no reason you can't keep it the way it was for the people who saw nothing wrong with the original layout - just rewrite it to look the same if you must rewrite. If people want it to be different, make that an option they can choose but don't force it on everyone. What is so bad about the original UI that it needs to be messed around with? 
    Sure there is a reason to not have both. It costs money to create and QA time to support two different styles of interfaces.

    As for what was bad in the previous UI, lots. For instance:
    - scroll boxes that could get messed up based on font size
    - having to scroll through a long list to get to specific info on the character record, making it hard to do comparisons between characters
    - no easy way to compare the differences between pieces of equipment
    - etc.

    that's not to say the new UI is perfect, but it's definitely better. 
  • DoubledimasDoubledimas Member, Mobile Tester Posts: 1,286
    And it was not the UI itself that warranted change, it was the fact that the underlying game code was thoroughly changed and improved leading to all kinds of new possibilities and features, but with the result that the old UI was not viable anymore.
  • FranpaFranpa Member Posts: 637
    edited March 2016
    Again, the rewrite seems like it'd be capable of reproducing the old UI without issues, look at this quick mockup @Dee made in 2~ hours:

    Dee's work-in-progress Example: https://forums.beamdog.com/uploads/FileUpload/ec/dfdd17ec32ec126b3a3bf0d39af17b.png

    v1.3 EE: http://i.imgur.com/hiJHe6L.jpg

    The information in the boxes is not the same as the old v1.3 UI but the layout is basically perfect, if they wanted to recreate the old UI they could without compromising the customization of the UI but their actively choosing not to.

    Saying that they can't make the old UI because of underlying changes to the UI code would be disingenuous to what they've accomplished. It couldn't be that improved in terms of customization if the original UI can't be reproduced.

    People want the old UI, people want a new UI, currently the good aspects of the old UI far outweighs the good aspects of the new UI.

    For example:http://i.imgur.com/hNBDrBl.jpg

    If I want to get an overall view of my characters gear while in the Inventory UI in v1.3 the majority of the information is available at a glance (13 pieces of information are immediately in view when opening my Inventory). If I want a general overview of my characters gear while in the Inventory UI in v2.00 beta I simply can't.

    In v2.00 I can view detailed information about Armour Class, Health, THACO and Damage but I can't view detailed information about 2 or more of those things simultaneously and the information is not available to glance at by default (I have to mouse over stuff before it becomes available to look at).

    So lets talk about the Character Sheet: In v1.3 everything is available in a central location in the Character Sheet, yes you need to scroll for stuff but its all there. 1 location, only need to scroll to access hidden information, don't need to move mouse courser between buttons. In v2.00 its all spread across multiple menus, you have to navigate back and forth between them and in various cases STILL NEED TO SCROLL TO SEE EVERYTHING and there is no longer a central location containing everything, the need for scrolling worsens with larger fonts much like it did in the v1.3 UI too. In v2.00 you have to perform at least 10x more clicks, drag the mouse courser it self around the screen a fuck ton more and also perform scrolling to see all the information.
  • PeccaPecca Member Posts: 2,215
    I don't think that the devs ever said it can't be done, it's just someone's guess. My guess is that all changes in the inventory and record screens were made because of scalable fonts, which was not beared in mind when the old GUI was made.
  • cmk24cmk24 Member Posts: 605
    The devs never said "it can't be done" (@dee actually said the exact opposite), they just said they would not do the re-write of the old UI in any official capacity. But they will give us all the information needed so modders can make whatever changes they want. I predict within one week the mod will be available for anyone that wants it.
  • ThelsThels Member Posts: 1,422
    People want the old UI, people want a new UI, currently the good aspects of the old UI far outweighs the good aspects of the new UI.
    That's really personal opinion. The New UI really needs just a bunch of small tweaks for it to be "good", and not the mess it is right now. And then it becomes a case of, do you prefer "all information mashed together on one screen" or "all information sorted in different tabs". There is no right or wrong there, only personal preference.
  • FranpaFranpa Member Posts: 637
    edited March 2016
    .
  • [Deleted User][Deleted User] Posts: 0
    The user and all related content has been deleted.
  • LathspellguestLathspellguest Member Posts: 60
    I like how everything is working for the most part, but I miss being able to put the cursor over the character and TAB to get name and HP status. I turned the health bars off because they added way too much clutter to the screen.

    I know that I can hit TAB to get info for everything onscreen, but in the thick of battle, the enemy name boxes cover each other up. Is there something I missed in settings that can help me out here?

    In any case, thanks to everyone at Beamdog.
  • BelgarathMTHBelgarathMTH Member Posts: 5,653
    I actually really like the new interface. It could use some aesthetic tweaking, maybe, but I find it much easier to access needed information quickly using the new tabbing system.

    If only I could read kit descriptions! When they need to scroll, the arrow appears on the screen, but the scroll control is frozen, making the second half of the kit description inaccessible.

    But anyway, I already said something about it, and @typo_tilly says she made a bug report for me, so I assume it's a known issue at this point.

    Other than that, I'm very happy and excited about the face lift.
  • NildarNildar Member Posts: 33
    BelgarathMTH said:

    If only I could read kit descriptions! When they need to scroll, the arrow appears on the screen, but the scroll control is frozen, making the second half of the kit description inaccessible.

    I can scroll through kit descriptions in both the character creation screen and in game. Both with the mouse scrolling wheel and by clicking on the arrows. I am playing BG:EE though, so maybe it is just a problem with the SoD UI (since all 3 games seem to be using a different version if I am correct)?

  • BelgarathMTHBelgarathMTH Member Posts: 5,653
    @Nildar, I'm talking about BG:EE, with the SoD interface. I didn't notice the problem until I bought SoD. Are you using the blue 1.3 interface that comes with BG:EE 2.0 without SoD?
  • NildarNildar Member Posts: 33
    @BelgarathMTH Yes. I don't have SoD installed, so that must be it.
    I will wait with installing it until I am right before the Sarevok fight or until these bugs have been fixed. (BG1NPC also doesn't work with the Steam version of SoD, so that was the main reason I haven't installed it yet while playing BG:EE 2.0)
  • BelgarathMTHBelgarathMTH Member Posts: 5,653
    @typo_tilly , @Dee, please notice for bug-reporting purposes that my problem with the class tab refusing to scroll does not occur in BG:EE 2.0 without SoD installed.

    @typo_tilly 's Redmine bug report in the BG:EE section of that site does not reflect this new information.

    So, to recreate the bug, you have to start a new BG:EE game with SoD installed.

    @typo_tilly , Do you know how to either edit our original ticket or to place a new one to "correctly" report this information?
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