Ring of Kazgoroth, is it worth using?

Noloir

The Ring of Kazgoroth is the psuedo-equivalent of The Ring of Gaxx for BG1EE only more balanced/detrimental. On account of -4 Save vs. Poison/Death/Paralysis and -2 Constitution is this item worth using? If so, which class does it naturally suit and item combinations bring about it's fullest potential?

Skarose

It's good for a ranged character, it'll just get frontliners killed.

RedWizard

It's good for a character with less than 15 con like Dorn in BG1.
Also for a pure class or non-fighter custom made character with 18 con so they won't lose anything when it drops to 16. Great for a shorty so you get to stack it on top of their op saves.

Skarose

@RedWizard -4 Save vs. Poison/Death/Paralysis just gets Dorn deaded...
For a Mage or Bard residing in the rear of the party it's just great!

RedWizard

Eh it shouldn't really be a problem. I mean Dorn isn't meant to tank and 2h weapons have enough range so that he can stay behind your tank

[Deleted User]

The penalty to Death saves has never been a big drawback for me, as ghouls aren't that common (or that hard to kill), and venomous enemies can be dealt with using antidote potions. On the other hand, the big bonus to saves vs. spells will come into play a lot, and it provides AC and Saves bonuses that stack with other protection items.

I like it on a Gnomish Fighter/Illusionist. Shorty saves appear to be calculated off of permanent Con, so the penalty isn't a problem in that respect. Take the high saves vs. spells from the Mage table, combine it with the shorty save bonus, the Claw, and another protection item, and you'll be able to shrug off most spells. Being a front-liner means you'll usually be targeted with spells before the other party members, so you effectively become a magical tank for the party.

Edit: Alternately, if you're worried about the penalty to Death saves, play a Gnomish Cleric/Illusionist, and let the high Clerical saves against death/poison mitigate the penalty.

Jarrakul

In my experience, it's great on any character with a con between 9 and 14, so long as you get it after Cloakwood. Cloakwood has a great many creatures with highly-lethal poison, so a penalty to your death save there is bad. After that, it's obviously still a disadvantage, but it's manageable and doesn't outweigh the benefits.

Noloir

Kaigen wrote: »

The penalty to Death saves has never been a big drawback for me, as ghouls aren't that common (or that hard to kill), and venomous enemies can be dealt with using antidote potions. On the other hand, the big bonus to saves vs. spells will come into play a lot, and it provides AC and Saves bonuses that stack with other protection items.

I like it on a Gnomish Fighter/Illusionist. Shorty saves appear to be calculated off of permanent Con, so the penalty isn't a problem in that respect. Take the high saves vs. spells from the Mage table, combine it with the shorty save bonus, the Claw, and another protection item, and you'll be able to shrug off most spells. Being a front-liner means you'll usually be targeted with spells before the other party members, so you effectively become a magical tank for the party.

Edit: Alternately, if you're worried about the penalty to Death saves, play a Gnomish Cleric/Illusionist, and let the high Clerical saves against death/poison mitigate the penalty.

Interesting! Never really played the short races aside from Dwarf seriously. What benefits do gnomes particularly have and are they more versatile than the generic Elf?

Noloir

Ran a solo No reload with Bard and used the Ring/Claw with Buckley's buckler to increase Con by 1 on equipt. Placed a PIP in darts (really underrated missle in BGEE nerfed horribly in BG2EE. No fire, acid, or cold darts). Once the Wand of Monster summoning and lvl 2 spells along with the greenstone amulet became accessible used Bard to sneak in the Flesh Golemn cave.

Grabbed the book on Const, summoned cannon fodder, and dissappeared well enough to flee unscathed. The poison penalty is a concern though. Haven't ran the candlekeep catacombs yet where plenty of spiders are.

Though this setup works well for Bard/Rogue it's be silly running amok as a Blackguard with a mini buckler in the heat of combat. Interested to read other item combinations and class suggestions.

Neverused

I know one tactic/build was to put 18 CON on a non-warrior class and then equip it; CON drops to 16, but that's the max for HP gain anyways. Add this to the fact that most of the troublesome Poison/Death/Paralysis saves you'll have to make are against melee stuff like Spiders and Ghasts and can thus be avoided even in melee with counters like Protection from Poison and Potions of Freedom; the really problematic Death saves are all in BG2.

Noloir

Neverused wrote: »

I know one tactic/build was to put 18 CON on a non-warrior class and then equip it; CON drops to 16, but that's the max for HP gain anyways. Add this to the fact that most of the troublesome Poison/Death/Paralysis saves you'll have to make are against melee stuff like Spiders and Ghasts and can thus be avoided even in melee with counters like Protection from Poison and Potions of Freedom; the really problematic Death saves are all in BG2.

You'd recommend adding additional points in Constitution for non-warriors to negate the effect? Perfect sense but is it practical for a Triology run-through no solo, no re-load especially 2ith Dragonspear's release today (PC)?

Arunsun

Noloir wrote: »

Neverused wrote: »

I know one tactic/build was to put 18 CON on a non-warrior class and then equip it; CON drops to 16, but that's the max for HP gain anyways. Add this to the fact that most of the troublesome Poison/Death/Paralysis saves you'll have to make are against melee stuff like Spiders and Ghasts and can thus be avoided even in melee with counters like Protection from Poison and Potions of Freedom; the really problematic Death saves are all in BG2.

You'd recommend adding additional points in Constitution for non-warriors to negate the effect? Perfect sense but is it practical for a Triology run-through no solo, no re-load especially 2ith Dragonspear's release today (PC)?

Well you will always have a dump stat, no matter your class, whether CHA, INT or WIS, or to a lesser extent STR (though at least 14is nice, for conveniency). With that taken into account you won't need a trumendous roll to have 18 con and make use of the claw anyway.

OlvynChuru

It's a great item because it gives an armor class bonus and it stacks with other magical protection items.

[Deleted User]

Noloir said:

Interesting! Never really played the short races aside from Dwarf seriously. What benefits do gnomes particularly have and are they more versatile than the generic Elf?

Well, the big benefit for the short races in general is that they get a bonus to saves vs. Wands, Spells, and for Halflings/Dwarves, Death based on their CON. The benefit that Gnomes have vs. Dwarves and Halflings is that they can play Mage characters without modding the game. In comparison to Elves, Gnomes have the shorty save bonus plus the fact that they are automatically Illusionists instead of Mages, meaning they can get the specialist bonus spells per day despite being multiclassed. As a minor benefit, they can also start with 19 Intelligence, which is handy if you want to use the INT Tome on one of your party members.

SirBatince

I had no idea there was no drawback for non fighters with 18 con. This changes alot for me.

elminster

Its good for Cernd in BG2EE.

Noloir

SirBatince said:

I had no idea there was no drawback for non fighters with 18 con. This changes alot for me.

After 16 Non-Fighters no longer gain HP but apparently it impacts saving throws in the short races. 18 Con in some instances may be a waste of points but overall it seems to be beneficial.

Noloir

Kaigen said:

Noloir said:

Interesting! Never really played the short races aside from Dwarf seriously. What benefits do gnomes particularly have and are they more versatile than the generic Elf?

Well, the big benefit for the short races in general is that they get a bonus to saves vs. Wands, Spells, and for Halflings/Dwarves, Death based on their CON. The benefit that Gnomes have vs. Dwarves and Halflings is that they can play Mage characters without modding the game. In comparison to Elves, Gnomes have the shorty save bonus plus the fact that they are automatically Illusionists instead of Mages, meaning they can get the specialist bonus spells per day despite being multiclassed. As a minor benefit, they can also start with 19 Intelligence, which is handy if you want to use the INT Tome on one of your party members.

That's excellent. Gnomes seem to be the niche class for mage multiclasses except for theif that may be better for Elves on account of their +1 Thac0 +1 Dmg with s.swords, bows, and l.swords bonuses.

Seems like the only race without a redeeming racial bonus is Half-Orc. If they had modifiers in Two Handed style, innate combat resistances to crushing, slashing, piercing; or resistance to fear they'd be more playable in my opinion.

Noloir

Arunsun said:

Noloir wrote: »

Neverused wrote: »

I know one tactic/build was to put 18 CON on a non-warrior class and then equip it; CON drops to 16, but that's the max for HP gain anyways. Add this to the fact that most of the troublesome Poison/Death/Paralysis saves you'll have to make are against melee stuff like Spiders and Ghasts and can thus be avoided even in melee with counters like Protection from Poison and Potions of Freedom; the really problematic Death saves are all in BG2.

You'd recommend adding additional points in Constitution for non-warriors to negate the effect? Perfect sense but is it practical for a Triology run-through no solo, no re-load especially 2ith Dragonspear's release today (PC)?

Well you will always have a dump stat, no matter your class, whether CHA, INT or WIS, or to a lesser extent STR (though at least 14is nice, for conveniency). With that taken into account you won't need a trumendous roll to have 18 con and make use of the claw anyway.

That's fair though 3 Cha tends to revolt the filthiest peasant.

Arunsun

Noloir said:

Arunsun said:

Noloir wrote: »

Neverused wrote: »

I know one tactic/build was to put 18 CON on a non-warrior class and then equip it; CON drops to 16, but that's the max for HP gain anyways. Add this to the fact that most of the troublesome Poison/Death/Paralysis saves you'll have to make are against melee stuff like Spiders and Ghasts and can thus be avoided even in melee with counters like Protection from Poison and Potions of Freedom; the really problematic Death saves are all in BG2.

You'd recommend adding additional points in Constitution for non-warriors to negate the effect? Perfect sense but is it practical for a Triology run-through no solo, no re-load especially 2ith Dragonspear's release today (PC)?

Well you will always have a dump stat, no matter your class, whether CHA, INT or WIS, or to a lesser extent STR (though at least 14is nice, for conveniency). With that taken into account you won't need a trumendous roll to have 18 con and make use of the claw anyway.

That's fair though 3 Cha tends to revolt the filthiest peasant.

You can get the 18charisma ring pretty early though

Jarrakul

Personally, I have some trouble roleplaying a non-evil character who's only charismatic because of their magic items. It just seems manipulative to me. But of course that's my roleplaying preference, and I don't mean to impose that on other people.

Noloir

Arunsun said:

Noloir said:

Arunsun said:

Noloir wrote: »

Neverused wrote: »

I know one tactic/build was to put 18 CON on a non-warrior class and then equip it; CON drops to 16, but that's the max for HP gain anyways. Add this to the fact that most of the troublesome Poison/Death/Paralysis saves you'll have to make are against melee stuff like Spiders and Ghasts and can thus be avoided even in melee with counters like Protection from Poison and Potions of Freedom; the really problematic Death saves are all in BG2.

You'd recommend adding additional points in Constitution for non-warriors to negate the effect? Perfect sense but is it practical for a Triology run-through no solo, no re-load especially 2ith Dragonspear's release today (PC)?

Well you will always have a dump stat, no matter your class, whether CHA, INT or WIS, or to a lesser extent STR (though at least 14is nice, for conveniency). With that taken into account you won't need a trumendous roll to have 18 con and make use of the claw anyway.

That's fair though 3 Cha tends to revolt the filthiest peasant.

You can get the 18charisma ring pretty early though

Have to go through 2 story arcs before it becomes available. Who know what Dragonspear has to offer? Happy 31st if you use PC, Mac, or Linux! Droid and I-phone are still in launch limbo.