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Legacy of Bhaal mode workaround

Ark_ToleiArk_Tolei Member Posts: 67
edited April 2016 in Troubleshooting
LoB is having 2 separate issues right now, but I think I've isolated how to deal with both.

The first issue is very simple. any time you reload a save in an area with creatures already populating it (either because those creatures are always loaded, or you have already seen the creature) those creatures will be loaded incorrectly, and will not have Legacy of Bhaal stats. For instance, if you save the area with a belt ogre and then reload he will be a weakling, but random encounters will still be working properly. This can be worked around by simply never reloading in an area that isn't already cleared of "combat" creatures. I say simply, but that obviously is extremely troublesome in large maps.

Update: Houses and other areas that aren't party required don't seem to work as "save buffers" so this is going to make things very hard unless you're willing to spend alot of time traveling.

Update the second: @thefirstbigw mentioned that you can use the console to just transport to a safe place to save, then transport yourself back. Once you've cleared Lion's way (ar2700) it becomes a great save spot option. It's the first area you go to after the tutorial, and only has a few creatures to kill.

The second issue is more weird and complicated, it relates to save file corruption. When you start a new game, you will be correctly set into Legacy of Bhaal mode, and any saves you make will retain the difficulty setting. If you exit the game or open a non-LoB save and then go back to your LoB save, any future saves you make will be in insane mode, not Legacy of Bhaal mode.

I.E. If you start up the game fresh, it looks at your setting on the main menu (which notably cannot be legacy of bhaal). So if you load up a LoB file straight after opening Baldur's Gate, any future saves will not be LoB. If you load a corrupted save, then an uncorrupted save, and then save again, the new save will be corrupted in the same manner.

To fix this issue you need to load a Legacy of Bhaal save (or start a new game on LoB mode), and then load another Legacy of Bhaal save (or just load the same LoB save twice in a row). This will set the "save" setting to LoB properly, and future save files will be uncorrupted.

If either solution fails to work for you please inform me so I can do further testing, but I think we've got this problem nailed. Also, if you have any other problems related to LoB files report them as well so we can isolate and crush them. For now the golden rules for LoB files are

1: Load your save twice any time you exit the game or load up a non-LoB file
2: Don't save in any area with creatures you don't want corrupted.

Edit: The first issue was already reported by someone else. I have reported the second issue here http://support.baldursgate.com/issues/22132

Edit again: Hopefully it'll be more clear now. Thanks to @lazutu for pointing out the new game stuff.

Post edited by Ark_Tolei on
Belfaldurnikelminstertypo_tillyGoturalBelgarathMTHlazutuJuliusBorisovlolien
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Comments

  • BelfaldurnikBelfaldurnik Member Posts: 208
    Good find! Loading uncorrupted LOB save files twice indeed results in the next save not reverting to "insane" when reloading it.

    Gotural
  • elminsterelminster Member, Developer Posts: 15,743
    Thanks for your help Ark_Tolei. I've ticketed the second issue you mentioned here.

    GoturalJuliusBorisovlolien
  • TredvoltTredvolt Member Posts: 62
    Good detective work Ark - thx for the message - I'll mess around with this method today.

  • Lord_TansheronLord_Tansheron Member Posts: 4,087
    This is extremely frustrating, and frankly I am a bit shocked such a crippling bug of one of the major new features has not been identified during beta testing.

    GoturalBelgarathMTH
  • TredvoltTredvolt Member Posts: 62
    There are quite a few threads about this and it seems to even be affecting other difficulties - although it could just be an unrelated coincidence. It is indeed frustrating that this mode wasn't a higher priority but it seems based on the redmine that they did know about it quite a bit before release.

    What tends to happen is that they evaluate how important this is and make a decision to release without the mode enabled and patch it later or devote resources to it before initial release. Clearly it was decided that this wasn't that important - and to be clear I'm not really saying I disagree - I don't really know how many people play LOB mode or really care if the other difficulties switch up on them.

    I waited patiently for the 31st and was disappointed that they missed their target date. But I will wait for the next date and the next after that until they get the game together for us. Best of luck beamdog.

    Gotural
  • typo_tillytypo_tilly Member Posts: 5,565
    A similar bug, 21061, was reported 20 days ago then fixed. It seems to have been re-introduced in later builds.

    BelgarathMTH
  • Lord_TansheronLord_Tansheron Member Posts: 4,087
    I am not liking what I am hearing.

    But I guess @Tredvolt has it; Hard as Bhaals is a minority feature, and thus lower down the ladder. My life in a nutshell. Well, I've been playing for over 10 years so I guess a few days won't break me, but this does not sit well with me regardless.

  • Ark_ToleiArk_Tolei Member Posts: 67
    It isn't just a priority thing, Tansheron. Some of these bugs were either misreported or unreported completely. The difficulty setting code has clearly been changed dramatically, resulting in a host of separate bugs whose expressions are similar. I don't think enough people with the dedication to establishing the clear boundaries of the errors were testing LoB in the beta, and that's on people like me, who waited until release to get involved out of a desire for purity. I didn't want any achievements before i did my livestream.

    It only took a couple hours for me to troubleshoot the save error, but it wasn't reported (at least not that I could find). I suspect that most people assumed 21061 had resurfaced, but while the expression is similar, the mechanic is completely different. 21962 is, of course, an entirely different issue. It was reported but is thus far unfixed.

    Unfortunately, the workaround for 21962 is much more troublesome. but hopefully it'll be fixed soon since it was found so much earlier.

    This patch is a frankly massive overhaul of the game, and while it's disappointing that LoB isn't working right, I'm extremely impressed with the patch as a whole. The offhand fix in particular is going to save me hours of my life swapping equipment around.

    Well, I'm off to kill a 200 hp spellcaster without saving first and with no spells left except entangle and doom (extremely useful against a stationary spellcaster). Wish me luck!

    BelgarathMTHSethDavis
  • Lord_TansheronLord_Tansheron Member Posts: 4,087
    No doubt this patch brings a lot to the table, it's just that this particular issue has the most impact on me personally because I really don't care too much about the features other than proper LoB implementation.

    Also, this bug is so glaringly obvious it should never ever have even been missed in first-level in-house testing. Like, you literally make a game and load once and you see it happen right away. That makes it all the more disappointing that it made it to release, and pretty much tells us they knew about it and released anyway, hoping that it affects few enough people for the backlash not to matter enough to delay the release. An established business practice in the industry.

    Now, of course I won't let that bug cloud my entire opinion on what, as you rightly say, is a quite feature-laden patch - that we are getting for free, no less. But it does make me feel awkwardly left out because it is once again made clear to me that I am part of a minority demographic that is entirely at the mercy of developer goodwill because we have so little direct impact on their decisions. A sad economic reality, of course, but that doesn't mean I can't be upset still.

    Perhaps this is just an overreaction on my part because I get to play so little, and I took the weekend off to enjoy the new patch fully - which I now can't do.

    BelgarathMTHGotural
  • bleusteelbleusteel Member Posts: 417
    I completed three BGEE LoB playthroughs during the beta. The changing difficulty was reported but it was fairly easy to workaround - just don't enter the gameplay options screen once the LoB game starts. If you need to reload, start a new LoB game and then load your save. This worked up to 2.0.62.0, not sure about the latest patch.

    typo_tilly
  • Lord_TansheronLord_Tansheron Member Posts: 4,087
    Not sure that "start a new game every time you reload" qualifies as an "easy workaround".

  • bleusteelbleusteel Member Posts: 417
    It all depends how often one needs to reload :)

    If one needs frequent reloads, maybe LoB is too tough.

  • Lord_TansheronLord_Tansheron Member Posts: 4,087
    Why would one need to reload a lot in the most difficult of game modes? Preposterous.

  • bleusteelbleusteel Member Posts: 417
    Arduous reloading makes LoB more of an ironman situation. It increases the difficulty which is what LoB players are seeking anyway. Lemons into lemonade folks.

  • Lord_TansheronLord_Tansheron Member Posts: 4,087
    Can we please not twist a crippling bug into a feature. Even in jest.

  • bleusteelbleusteel Member Posts: 417
    Why not? Better to wring our hands and howl in disgust?

    Taking crappy and making it happy is a valuable life skill. No jest.

    Like I said, I haven't played LoB with the release patch so it might be worse now. I have spent my time with LoB and probably won't return because I don't enjoy it. I was just attempting to help people have fun with a great game.

    typo_tillyBelgarathMTHGotural
  • Lord_TansheronLord_Tansheron Member Posts: 4,087
    There is value in voicing your dissatisfaction.

    Going "oh well, it's just another extra difficulty!" is counter-productive. It's a coping mechanism of sorts for sure, but I don't want to cope. I want things to get better, not learn to accept them as they are.

    I totally understand that LoB isn't a big deal (or any deal) for a lot of people. For me, it's the ONLY deal, which may be why I'm so upset.

    typo_tillyBelgarathMTH
  • typo_tillytypo_tilly Member Posts: 5,565
    edited April 2016
    Patches 2.0.62.1 and 2.0.62.2 were both released on March 31st along with the game. I don't think the open beta had 2.0.62.2 for a couple hours before the game was released. It's not a matter of not being able to catch the obvious bugs (including similar ones that may have been created while others were fixed) or relegating high difficulty options as low priority. Time is needed to search and report as well.

    Meanwhile, the company has its release deadlines. They likely took the position that there were not enough bugs to stop the release. I saw this happen with Wastelands 2, Pillars of Eternity, and Shadowrun. All games required 1-3 weeks to fix major bugs and a host of minor bugs.

    With that said, a lot of 2.0. bugs we've seen on release are being identified and reproduced easily. The first patch should fix a lot.

    Post edited by typo_tilly on
    JuliusBorisov
  • BelfaldurnikBelfaldurnik Member Posts: 208
    bleusteel said:

    I was just attempting to help people have fun with a great game.

    Face it, it is a game-breaking bug, because if you ever need to reload a savegame, enemies in the area you are in are not LOB boosted anymore. The work-around probably would involve loading a save from the previous map and advance to the next map again for fresh LOB population of enemies.

    It is no reason for frustration yet, imho, because this major update has just been released. There's still the chance to fix it. Frustration would kick in if the first bug-fix updates would still not fix it or even cause more regression.

    typo_tillyBelgarathMTH
  • thefirstbigwthefirstbigw Member Posts: 2
    You might be able to use the console to transport to another map, save, and then transport back again.

    typo_tilly
  • TredvoltTredvolt Member Posts: 62
    That is actually a pretty good idea! Anyone have a suggestion for a zone that isn't populated and won't break anything by going into? For BG1 and BG2 and SOD if applicable.

  • bleusteelbleusteel Member Posts: 417
    Endless complaint is another coping mechanism, for sure.

    The issue has been reported. I sincerely hope Beamdog fixes things to everyone's satisfaction.

  • Ark_ToleiArk_Tolei Member Posts: 67

    You might be able to use the console to transport to another map, save, and then transport back again.

    This is a great idea. A good zone to transport to would probably be either Lion's Way (AR2700 according to gamefaqs) or potentially one of the floors of the friendly arm inn. (2301-2303). Going inside the FAI is a party required transition so it shouldn't mess up the exterior unless I've misinterpreted symptoms. I screwed up the FAI zone accidently by saving in the houses there.

    Personally I'd recommend just biting the bullet with Lion's Way since it's the first zone you enter and only has about 6 creatures in it, so clearing it before you start saving outside candlekeep shouldn't be a huge hassle. During the candlekeep portion you can safely save unless you intend to slaughter all the npc's because the creatures you're intended to fight are in buildings and thus not loaded until you encounter them. The rats appear to be safe regardless.

    I'm going to continue doing the no save until cleared method since I'm a glutton for punishment, but I'll update the OP with your idea bigw.

    BelgarathMTH
  • Lord_TansheronLord_Tansheron Member Posts: 4,087
    Ark_Tolei said:

    because the creatures you're intended to fight are in buildings and thus not loaded until you encounter them.

    Haven't tested it, but I've heard reports that buildings are not a safe buffer. The entire map will be affected, so only a true "world map"-like transition should suffice.

    I wonder what constitutes separate maps in that sense. Is WK a safe zone for BG2, for example, or will it corrupt all the levels of it?

  • Ark_ToleiArk_Tolei Member Posts: 67
    edited April 2016

    Ark_Tolei said:

    because the creatures you're intended to fight are in buildings and thus not loaded until you encounter them.

    Haven't tested it, but I've heard reports that buildings are not a safe buffer. The entire map will be affected, so only a true "world map"-like transition should suffice.

    I wonder what constitutes separate maps in that sense. Is WK a safe zone for BG2, for example, or will it corrupt all the levels of it?
    Buildings aren't a safe buffer (I found that out in the friendly arm inn area, I was using the temple to save), but unless every enemy in a building I've encountered thus far is spawned via script when you enter (which sadly isn't unreasonable, time to start testing), the game doesn't appear to load sub-areas until you actually enter them for the first time.

    In terms of save buffers, I suspect it's party required transitions, but haven't had a chance to test yet.

    I know 100% that the rats in the candlekeep warehouse aren't impacted by saving in candlekeep, since I had to reload plenty of times between my first 2 attempts.

    Edit: I just tested with both shank and my Beregost save file. Saving outside doesn't appear to be effecting creatures inside buildings, regardless of whether I've entered those buildings before. Saving inside buildings definitely impacts creatures outside the buildings, however (I screwed up both the friendly arm inn and silke this way. I was ready for silke to break, however, so I just reloaded to an earlier save). This is going to require further testing but I have a casting soon and can't do it right now. The tests I did were with two Inn's in beregost (one I've entered on my save file, the other I have not) and a new game with Shank.

    BelgarathMTHlazutu
  • Lord_TansheronLord_Tansheron Member Posts: 4,087
    Well, it's good to know. I will continue to refuse to play in this state, but information can only be helpful towards a speedy solution. I hope.

    BelgarathMTH
  • lazutulazutu Member Posts: 118
    edited April 2016
    Extremely frustrating :( When can we expect a hotfix?

    Again, damn it!!!

    Post edited by lazutu on
  • TredvoltTredvolt Member Posts: 62
    I copied the information below from the redmine report listed in this thread. I asked some of my game developer friends what they thought about the situation. Their main comment was that they would classify this bug as "A" Showstopper - and not "C".

    I'm not 100% sure of the reasoning behind this but LOB is basically unplayable in its current state so a "C" seems odd. It should at least be a "B" even from a conservative standpoint.




    Legacy of Bhaal stats should not be reset to normal for creatures in the area a game is loaded in
    Added by Emmet McMahan 8 days ago. Updated 7 days ago.

    Status: Submitted Start date: 03/27/2016
    Classification: C Due date:
    Assignee: - % Done:
    0%
    Category: -
    Target version: -
    Found In Version: Public Bug Reports - 2.0.61.0
    Description

    Remove the baldur.ini file (if any) and the baldur.lua file from the game directory located in the documents folder.
    Start the game to create a new Baldur.lua file.
    Quit the game.
    Enter the following line into the new baldur.lua file: SetPrivateProfileString('Program Options','Debug Mode','1')
    Start the game.
    Start a new game with Abdel in Legacy of Bhaal difficulty.
    Use ctrl-m on the nearby tutor to verify that He has Legacy of Bhaal stats (HP should be 83)
    Load the auto save that was created when you started the new game.
    Use ctrl-m on the tutor again.
    Observed
    The tutor will have normal stats (HP will be 1)

    Expected
    All creatures should have Legacy of Bhaal stats when the game is loaded.

    Notes
    Internal report #21987

    Monsters in the area files in baldur.sav are being saved with the correct LOB stats. However, the game engine appears to apply the default stats from the CRE files when it loads the game. BD_Nightmare_Mode is set to 1 and GameDifficulty is set to 7 in baldur.gam as expected.

    This only applies to the area the game was loaded in. All other areas, explored or not, are unaffected (unless they have been loaded in previously).

    typo_tillylazutu
  • typo_tillytypo_tilly Member Posts: 5,565
    edited April 2016
    It's not actually a C. :) The devs disabled priority lettering for public reports. All public reports are C unless changed by a dev. But they re-write public tickets and submit them internally.

    I'm not sure what their internal report would classify the bug as, but I would classify it as a B, because their A means you can't complete the game, such as a game crashing or a main quest related NPC not appearing.

    bleusteelJuliusBorisovlolien
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