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Shadowkeeper Support

AntonAnton Member, Moderator, Mobile Tester Posts: 513
edited May 2012 in Archive (Feature Requests)
(Reddit request by visagedarkskin)

I'd like to see an updated and official version of shadowkeeper. After playing the game with normal characters I like to mess around with them. Additionally, many of the requests in this forum are of the type "make character x this type, change the stats of xx, give me a good thief npc, etc." An official Character editor a la shadowkeeper (albeit with a good and updated interface) would address all of these concerns in a simple, elegant way, so people can play BGEE however they want to play it.
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Comments

  • AntonAnton Member, Moderator, Mobile Tester Posts: 513

    Comments from Reddit:

    [–]HeroicSpur 4 points 1 month ago
    Hmm, not sure about this. I love shadowkeeper and think it is a phenomenal tool...but for an 'official version'? I don't think it's appropriate really for the game dev to be releasing a tool like that, because it can easily be construed as a 'cheat' device.
    What might be a better idea is petitioning the person who created shadowkeeper to make an updated version for BG:EE. However seeing as the core game is not going to be changed, the current version of shadowkeeper may actually still work with BG:EE.

    [–]Cadros 1 point 1 month ago
    I couldn't agree more!

    [–]visagedarkskin[S] 1 point 1 month ago
    Being able to edit NPCs, Creatures and items would also be quite enjoyable. Again, there were programs that allowed this in the past but they were quite old and cumbersome to use.

    [–]Gilthas 1 point 1 month ago
    I don't see a problem in having something like an official shadowkeeper thing for the game.
    The game already comes with cheats anyway.

    [–]CZYSTA_WODA 1 point 1 month ago
    Cheats aren't only use of Shadowkeeper and cluaconsole. Testing mods, surviving bugs, spawning 10 dragons and killing them, etc.

    [–]HeroicSpur 3 points 1 month ago
    But those cheats are buried, you have to activate the cheat mode, and then you need to know the relevant CLUA console commands to enable the cheats. It's not the same thing as having an app side by side with the game that lets you change all your stats/inventory.
    A lot of people coming to BG:EE will not have played a BG game, their only underatanding of it probably being Dark Alliance. BG:EE will therefore need to be packaged like any other game; not just something special for hardcore fans.

    [–]AndyXuma 3 points 1 month ago*
    If you see Spiderweb Software's Avernum iPad port, I think they hit upon a very nice solution. From the cheat command line, you have to type EDITOR and an integrated editor pops up.
    Additionally, they give you plenty of warning to the effect that activating the editor might spoil the fun.
    So I guess we can trust the devs to come up with far better solutions than we can think of, so the game appeals to both newcomers AND hardcore fans.
    I really like the idea of an official editor, having already suggested that specifically for the iPad, on my iPad Dream List thread. I'm all for player freedom. After all, the devs did build a very thorough cheat engine and gave that to us in the first place! And remember, many of us will play with mods, and some of the mods are highly unbalanced in the first place, so cheats could almost be a necessity under some mod combinations.

    [–]Aosaw 3 points 1 month ago
    I would say, make it a separate application that's available for free from the BG:EE (or Overhaul) website. Players don't have to use it to enjoy the game, but it would be nice if the character editor for the game was designed by the same people who designed the game.
    I'd be willing to bet, as well, that the developers could find even more creative uses for a character editor than we can - and they would probably be able to make it easier to use and understand.

    [–]kmark232323 1 point 1 month ago
    I never saw why another race other than Human could not choose Paladin as a class. Any race that can have Clerics as a Class choice should be able to choose Paladin as well.

    [–]Beamdoggers 3 points 1 month ago
    This is a feature of the AD&D ruleset. They fixed it in 3rd Edition so that more races could become Paladins, but at the time of 2nd Edition it was a concrete rule.

    [–]Gilthas 3 points 1 month ago
    The truth is that the Paladin orders in 2nd edition were racist biggots. And they had the gall to think they were the champions of goodness!

    [–]kmark232323 1 point 1 month ago
    What???? The Paladin rules were established by the original Player's Handbook, which didin't designate a specific game world. How could you come to the conclussion that they were biggots? It was just plain bad development by Gygax on Pallys. And other classes restrictions as well....

    [–]Gilthas 3 points 1 month ago
    Of course they were biggots, the orders didn't allow other races to join them.

    [–]kmark232323 1 point 1 month ago
    Sorry, the comical aspect went of that comment right over my head. :-)

    [–]Aosaw 3 points 1 month ago
    It was a question of balance, actually. Humans, prior to 3rd Edition, had no special traits that made them a more attractive racial choice for players - so the paladin class, which is a bit more powerful than the fighter, was designed to only be usable by Human characters. It gives human players something interesting to play with (i.e. "versatility") that the other races don't have.
    In third edition, that restriction was removed - partly because players wanted to play Elf Paladins, and partly because the human race was "upgraded" to make it more appealing to players in general.
    That's my guess, anyway.

    [–]kmark232323 1 point 1 month ago
    I never saw Pallys as more powerful, as the 17 Cha requirement meant that odds are, you have weaker Str and Con scores. Plus, humans could Dual-class, which to me was always more powerful than Multi- in PnP.

    [–]Aosaw 1 point 1 month ago
    It was more the "Detect Evil At Will" ability that they got from level 1, I think - and the immunity to fear. Makes it a lot easier to spot possible traitors and ambushes, and fights against dragons become a lot less troublesome.

    [–]IchigoRXC 1 point 28 days ago
    Yes but having high stat requirements in BG was a bonus, it automatically made all your rolls high enough, and thus paladins usually got the best rolls.
  • KoreKore Member Posts: 245
    I agree that a shadowkeeper is something that vastly improves the game for me when I want to mess around on reruns. It would have to be a separate download though, but I'd imagine that goes without saying.
  • sarevok57sarevok57 Member Posts: 6,002
    the only reason why i like shadow keeper is to make some enemies harder and especially ( what i use it for most often) is to give my team mates pretty cOl-LoRs :)
  • LuneverLunever Member Posts: 307
    edited July 2012
    Fpr ages, Gatekeeper/Shadowkeeper have been brilliant BG editors - not just for cheating, but also for correcting unexpected bugs in savegames. I very much hope, that there will be some way to use Shadowkeeper wit BG:EE. If there is anyhting the EE team can do to make compatibility as easy as possible, it would be well worth the effort.
  • TanthalasTanthalas Member Posts: 6,738
    edited July 2012
    Merge

    EDIT: After I rest for 8 hours that is.
  • TanthalasTanthalas Member Posts: 6,738
    There's actually a request for this already:

    http://forum.baldursgate.com/discussion/50/shadowkeeper-support#latest
  • MornmagorMornmagor Member Posts: 1,160
    You cannot rest here. Either find an inn or rest outside.

    On topic, yes please gief shadowkeeper support :P
  • LuneverLunever Member Posts: 307
    edited July 2012
    @Tanthalas: Well, I usually try to avoid double postings, but sometimes I yet fail to do so. Please merge!
  • TanthalasTanthalas Member Posts: 6,738
    Merged the threads.
  • CuvCuv Member, Developer Posts: 2,535
    IIRC Shadowkeep had a bad habit of corrupting save games... not always, but sometimes. I stopped using it and moved to NI or DLTCEP. It was indeed handy and easy to use. I suggest that whatever was causing corruption be fixed (unless it has already).

    Something 'like' it would be a very useful 'toolset' feature if the orginal program cannot be used due to legal issues.
  • poejjaferspoejjafers Member Posts: 33
    edited July 2012
    Can the save files me modified?
    If so will shadowkeeper be able to mod the save files or will another modding program be needed?
  • WispWisp Member Posts: 1,102
    I imagine Shadowkeeper will need an update before it will be compatible with BGEE. The source code is available, but it is unmaintained.
  • CoM_SolaufeinCoM_Solaufein Member Posts: 2,606
    You could try an contact Aaron (the creator) to see if he would update it when EE comes out.
  • AndreaColomboAndreaColombo Member Posts: 5,530
    edited July 2012
    @CoM_Solaufein - that would be most awesome. I was actually thinking of it earlier today. I guess making SK work with BG:EE would only require but a minimal amount of work, though I'm saying this with no programming skills or experience whatsoever.
  • BlindStrikerBlindStriker Member Posts: 10
    @poejjafers Existing source codes of ShadowKeeper, does not belong to the current executable version. But as far as I look at code, seems can work with BGEE. The structure of .GAM and other files will not change i think.

    I am still using ShadowKeepers Source Code for developing Infinity Fiction.
  • HeasHeas Member Posts: 54
    edited August 2012
    I remember having heaps of fun tweaking with the characters..
    Soo... Anyone?
  • TheCoffeeGodTheCoffeeGod Member Posts: 618
    This is something I've been wondering as well.
    If Near Infinity & ShadowKeeper/GateKeeper would work with the new EE.
  • Kitteh_On_A_CloudKitteh_On_A_Cloud Member Posts: 1,629
    I hope Shadowkeeper will be compatible with the new Baldur's Gate! I had a lot of fun throwing infinite money around. XD
  • WolfheartWolfheart Member Posts: 170
    I hope so to, even if I'l have to drag my savefiles from the Ipad to the PC if I want to make any changes. As for the initial setup (fixing kits and stats n stuff) that will be done on the PC if SK is available,,, I'm not as patient as I used to be so I'm not willing to wait for 18,18,16,18,18,18 ^^* Strength needed to carry stuff (I eis packrat). Dex is needed for the extra AC (Not really needed but still nice). +2 hp per level 16 con requires. As for the mental stats, I'm a bloody Mage with a wish-wish! And for Cha, can't ever be carismatic enough :P
  • WolfheartWolfheart Member Posts: 170
    Not to mention making Imoen/Edwin a Sorcerer (For BG2, in BG1 I'd most likely give Imoen a thief kit ^^*), make Jhaheira a Cleric/Fighter (or pure Druid), Minsc a Warrior, Khalid a ghost (not through SK but still ^^*), and keep Dynaheir as she is for all her flaws ^^*.
  • CoM_SolaufeinCoM_Solaufein Member Posts: 2,606
    I'm sure its not difficult to get in contact with the person who made the Keeper editors and ask him if he would update it.
  • raclariuraclariu Member Posts: 56
    There should be, i mean i used it once purely to change my Zanhorn thief/fighter (played with this name through bg1-2, iwd 1-2) allignment after it was changed to neutral evil (i think) after doing the trials before the Irenicus battle. Always had a good party, so i didn't like that.
  • CremoCremo Member Posts: 41
    I totally agree.. shadow keeper allowed me to do so many things without modding (making custonm classes with special innates, changing classes/kits of NPCs.. and even tweaking d&d ruleset by altering thac0, Apr and other things to follow MY RULESET).

    In truth I hope that, with BGEE being less hardcoded than the original, the author of the original shadow keeper will be able to even give us more options to alter our savegames!
  • drawnacroldrawnacrol Member Posts: 253
    I hope so! That way you can change the skills and alignment up the the NPCs you rarely use so they are more useful.
  • WolfheartWolfheart Member Posts: 170
    Ofcourse, if they go the way of SpiderSoft and include a basic editor in the game that would be lovely to. Such as basic things like changing statpoints, xp, alignment, class, kit, level...
  • Kitteh_On_A_CloudKitteh_On_A_Cloud Member Posts: 1,629
    I just want to cheat the hell out of the game after having done a 'clean' playthrough. I hope someone's willing to update the Shadowkeeper module! :)
  • Twilight_FoxTwilight_Fox Member Posts: 448
    I usualy only use the shadow keeper/gate keeper to get my 102 stats points and sometime to give a thief's body to a mage or a warrior/mage class. But if we dont have any gatekeeper, I will roll and roll for maybe 20-30min max to my 102pt and create a thief. ^^
  • KenKen Member Posts: 226
    I just want to change their appearance :)
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