Is it really necessary to insult your own customers, as well as the original developers?
GiantMiniatureImp
Member Posts: 8
I've been a long-time fan of the Baldur's Gate - I've played it since the early 2000s. So I was really happy to see the game be ported to Steam. I own both Baldur's Gate games, as well as Icewind Dale. I was looking forward to the new expansion.
Imagine my shock when I read that writers and developers of the Siege of Dragonspear decided to slur the game that we love as 'sexist', for not adhering to their ideological dogma.
“If there was something for the original Baldur’s Gate that just doesn’t mesh for modern day gamers like the sexism, [we tried to address that],” said writer Amber Scott. “In the original there’s a lot of jokes at women’s expense. Or if not a lot, there’s a couple, like Safana was just a sex object in BG 1, and Jaheira was the nagging wife and that was played for comedy. We were able to say like, ‘No, that’s not really the kind of story we want to make.’ In Siege of Dragonspear, Safana gets her own little storyline, she got a way better personality upgrade. If people don’t like that, then too bad.”
Source: Kotaku
So this writer accuses the original game of 'sexism', for making jokes that she doesn't like. Not to mention the insult to gamers in 'ethics in heroic adventuring', and the countless other memes reportedly inserted into the game.
Is it too much to ask to want a well-written game, and not one that is based on pop culture and tries to shoehorn an ideological and political agenda into the game? As much as I was enthusiastic about this expansion, I'm certainly not going to buy something that insults me, all gamers and the legendary writers and developers of Baldur's Gate.
Can this be addressed?
Imagine my shock when I read that writers and developers of the Siege of Dragonspear decided to slur the game that we love as 'sexist', for not adhering to their ideological dogma.
“If there was something for the original Baldur’s Gate that just doesn’t mesh for modern day gamers like the sexism, [we tried to address that],” said writer Amber Scott. “In the original there’s a lot of jokes at women’s expense. Or if not a lot, there’s a couple, like Safana was just a sex object in BG 1, and Jaheira was the nagging wife and that was played for comedy. We were able to say like, ‘No, that’s not really the kind of story we want to make.’ In Siege of Dragonspear, Safana gets her own little storyline, she got a way better personality upgrade. If people don’t like that, then too bad.”
Source: Kotaku
So this writer accuses the original game of 'sexism', for making jokes that she doesn't like. Not to mention the insult to gamers in 'ethics in heroic adventuring', and the countless other memes reportedly inserted into the game.
Is it too much to ask to want a well-written game, and not one that is based on pop culture and tries to shoehorn an ideological and political agenda into the game? As much as I was enthusiastic about this expansion, I'm certainly not going to buy something that insults me, all gamers and the legendary writers and developers of Baldur's Gate.
Can this be addressed?
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Comments
See how this works? You don't change things based on one person's subjective opinion. There are clearly plenty of BG fans who like the source material the way it was, thanks very much.
Anyway, whatever. They lost a sale from me anyway. Not much else to say, I suppose.
Just to give an example, stealing photos of adult actresses for NPC portraits was certainly not cool. Neither was the unfortunate naming of an internal variable in BG 2 (even though that was not visible to the player).
And I agree, that the portrayals of Safana and Jaheira in BG 1 qualify as unfortunate choices as well. Mostly, I feel because the NPCs in BG 1 were rather one-dimensional.
Gotcha.
Gotcha.
But now. People want more detailed, lively and realistic, deep characters in their video games. There are more female gamers to cater for now, as well. Video games are improved vastly, back when it started we used to jump on turtles and collect mushrooms and coins for the fun of it (mario) but now gaming is looked as serious business, a medium where people can find meaningful, lively characters they will enjoy to meet and remember. (Too many modern games that have excellent stories and characters to tell)
Ofcourse bg1 will seem a bit basic when compared to the high standarts of todays gaming, and the current writers are doing their best to improve and modernise it. This does not belittle or bemoan bg1 of the past. If the current writers or developers did not like bg1, they wouldn't have touched it at all.
Video games are supposed to be about having fun, not propagandizing the agenda of radical 'cultural critics'.
QUOTE: "In Siege of Dragonspear, Safana gets her own little storyline, she got a way better personality upgrade."
That's literally changing source material.
So you're not addressing the complaint at all, but merely rephrasing it as something the writer did not say. Frankly, I don't care for people's ideological and political agenda.
What always gets me is the dig about sexism. "There's a lot of jokes at Women's expense... or if not a lot, a couple." What? Which is it? Do you even know? Why is it suddenly not okay to make jokes at someone's expense just because they are Female? That's insulting to me on a personal level.
I dunno, I play games to get away from all the political nonsense of this era... and now it's invading that too. Not everything has to be political and not every medium is supposed to carry your message. Or if you're going to do it, do it right and not just one-off lines and characters that exist only to fulfill a nebulous quota to get your kudos from various groups and people.
Sarcasm aside, it's the principle of the thing more than anything. (at least, with respect to Safana)
And you know it, you're just being disingenuous.
Stop it with the personal attacks. They are not welcome here.
Folks can expect to receive warnings when mods trained in the proper process arrive.
I will not engage in this debate except to say that Amber speaks for Beamdog, and the company stands behind what she said.
https://forums.beamdog.com/discussion/10852/site-rules-mind-the-gap#latest
Anyway, the original game was sexist. Great, but flawed. Shar-Teel and Jaheira were the only women NPCs trained as a fighter, paladin, or ranger, but somehow all four pure thieves and all three pure cleric or druid NPCs were women. Khalid refers to Jaheira as "the wife". Gorion, Elminster, Sarevok, Scar, and three of four dukes of Baldur's Gate are men, with no woman characters of similar prominence. Nearly every shop and tavern is run by a man, and one of the banters you'll hear dozen's of times in any city is "wife's been getting prickly on my arse". There is no similar banter disparaging men generally or any man in particular. Shar-Teel, who may have been intended to provide some balance, is a female supremacist rather than a feminist.
Anyway, that's all still there in BG and BG:EE, so a hearty eyeroll to the idea that anybody has "changed" the source material, let alone for the worse. As for Siege of Dragonspear, nobody will ever force you to play the game, nor to go to the Internet to post petulant little tirades. And Amber Scott's opinion counts for a lot more than yours or mine when it comes to what goes in the game or to what is ok to put in a game that she is in charge of.
So don't get angry, have fun. Play the game - it's awesome!
blaaaaragghhhhhaaagag!!!!!!!
wouldn't you be happier playing my little pony or something less triggering than sexist white supremacist BG??
And in contrary to what you claim, politics and ideologies has been in gaming from day 1. The main protagonists of most first person shooters being straight White males? That's political, and reflects the world views of the demographics of the genre's game writers, and yet to you that's "normality". I suspect that you're simply trying to find offense where there is none, and cry over the fact that there are other demographics and perspectives out there.
I was going to share my post elsewhere where I describe better how I feel about it but I don't think I can link directly to it.
Edit: My main point is that I want these characters to feel, I dunno, what's the word. I want them to feel like characters not tokens. I also don't want their identity being their gender/sexual orientation. When people ask about a progressive type character and what constitutes "doing it right", I point to two. Arcade Gannon and Veronica from Fallout: New Vegas. Their sexuality does not define them, they feel like real characters who happen to be different than most. It's not made a big deal of and it shouldn't be. It should be "Really? Meh. So?" that's the destination I wish for.