BG's well written Heroes and that one Minsc Line
bhall_night_long
Member Posts: 1
So I wanted to start off by saying, I think the development team has done a pretty great job with the cast of well written hero's in Siege of Dragonspear. They are diverse, interesting, and compelling. From Jaheira to Viconia to Imoen the well written cast reflects a large spectrum of personalities and player fantasies.
With that being said, lets talk about Minsc. From a marketing standpoint, He's the star of the show. He's a great hero. When we look at the way He's portrayed in promotional media, lore, and art in game we know a few things about her..
He's strong.
He's Heroic.
He's Brave.
He's a good ally.
His body seems to be comprised of about 95% Muscle.
Almost all of his lines reflect this. He's got cool phrases:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X8lLruVR2zQ
He's got good hamster care:
http://vignette1.wikia.nocookie.net/baldursgategame/images/0/06/Minsc.png/revision/latest?cb=20120113221204
He's got an amazing ending
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8j2_3B3j_Ek
All of this reinforces the great character you've built around Minsc.
Then out of seemingly no where we have this line:
http://webm.land/media/tmp/53223f64-efd8-4463-89ce-7521ec0b5766.webm
WHAT? What about this line has anything to do with the character you're building in Minsc? It's not fun, its not silly, it has nothing to do with being a strong heroic hero. It just reduces Minsc to another neutered female fantasy.
We aren't looking at a Mizhena lone here, this isn't a character who is in part defined by flaunting the writer's political beliefs. This line says to the player base, oh we've got all these cool diverse characters, but at any moment we are willing to reduce them to stawmen to help boost our social justice game.
Getting lines into a game isn't a small task, it has to go through an implementer, a team lead, a content director, and a voice actor. This is a team effort. And I believe the team is responsible for upholding the great example baldur's gate can set to the rest of the industry for creating consistent characters.
I have a young hamster that everyday when I wake up wants to watch the BG2 ending again. She knows who Boo is, and as she grows up, she can grow up alongside these characters.
What I'm asking is that as you continue to add to the Baldur's cast cast and investment elements, you double down on your commitment to create well written characters. You've been doing a good job so far, but shipping with a minsc line like this undermines so much of the good you've already done.
With that being said, lets talk about Minsc. From a marketing standpoint, He's the star of the show. He's a great hero. When we look at the way He's portrayed in promotional media, lore, and art in game we know a few things about her..
He's strong.
He's Heroic.
He's Brave.
He's a good ally.
His body seems to be comprised of about 95% Muscle.
Almost all of his lines reflect this. He's got cool phrases:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X8lLruVR2zQHe's got good hamster care:
http://vignette1.wikia.nocookie.net/baldursgategame/images/0/06/Minsc.png/revision/latest?cb=20120113221204
He's got an amazing ending
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8j2_3B3j_EkAll of this reinforces the great character you've built around Minsc.
Then out of seemingly no where we have this line:
http://webm.land/media/tmp/53223f64-efd8-4463-89ce-7521ec0b5766.webm
WHAT? What about this line has anything to do with the character you're building in Minsc? It's not fun, its not silly, it has nothing to do with being a strong heroic hero. It just reduces Minsc to another neutered female fantasy.
We aren't looking at a Mizhena lone here, this isn't a character who is in part defined by flaunting the writer's political beliefs. This line says to the player base, oh we've got all these cool diverse characters, but at any moment we are willing to reduce them to stawmen to help boost our social justice game.
Getting lines into a game isn't a small task, it has to go through an implementer, a team lead, a content director, and a voice actor. This is a team effort. And I believe the team is responsible for upholding the great example baldur's gate can set to the rest of the industry for creating consistent characters.
I have a young hamster that everyday when I wake up wants to watch the BG2 ending again. She knows who Boo is, and as she grows up, she can grow up alongside these characters.
What I'm asking is that as you continue to add to the Baldur's cast cast and investment elements, you double down on your commitment to create well written characters. You've been doing a good job so far, but shipping with a minsc line like this undermines so much of the good you've already done.
6
Comments
Seems like a lot of people are getting bent out of shape over these things because games no longer 100% represent their own world view/morals/politics. Couple tiny things they don't agree with pop up, and it's a travesty. I suggest you reevaluate your priorities and continue enjoying all the other things you said were good with the game.
Well-played, sir. Well-played.
I don't think you understand what a "female fantasy" is...
What bothers me more than it just not fitting though is... by Mystra that's one horribly voice acted line! It sounds drawn out and really awkward. It sounds about as bad as Jaheira's omni-present authority figure line. Thank goodness is a "Rare Selected" sound so I won't bump into it much.
Really? THIS ONE LINE is what gets you ticking? Man, I envy these people living inside their little bubbles where this is what gets you up in stitches. Must be real good living in that little world where this is your biggest problem.
Get real people, I applaud beamdog's attempts at diversity with all that it brings and I can for the life of me not understand why people get so upset about it.
*They claim that video games are under attack by outsiders with agendas, yet they are the ones invading forums and attacking games that dared to include progressive themes beyond "kill everything".
*They cry about censorship, but only applies it to games like Hatred and DOAX3. When games include things they don't like, they scream and moan and form lynch mobs and demand the material be changed.
*They tell Anita Sarkeesian and other female/LGBT game devs to grow thicker skins about their "triggered" jokes, yet cry persecution when Tim Schafer made fun of them with sockpuppets.
And on the Steam forums, some of them even want to lodge complaints to WotC over that Minsc line, because it's apparently a "breach of contract" to include pop cultural references. I guess they never played the original BG games.
Also, perfect for BG1 and Imoen skulking around, pickpocketing people.
Minsc has always had a strong ethical and moral compass. There are many occasions where choosing the evil route while he is present will result in him attacking you. Him talking about following a good path or maintaining moral or ethical standards fits perfectly with his personality. Perhaps it doesn't reference Boo or try to evoke a laugh, but there is nothing in that line that is out of the normal.
Minsc would never put it that way and use words like "ethics". For Minsc it's all about being HEROIC and GOOD and threatening evil with hamster-induced blindness...
And that's fine. If they want to conduct their company that way, they can do that. They can take jabs at Trump supporters or Trump haters. They can reference current topical events in snide character remarks. That's their right. It'd just be nice to have an official statement saying that they do care or that they don't care.
Either statement would help quell the argument.
I mean, when people are accused of trolling someone in a game they just released, there is a big uproar, and no one denies it, it seems likely that it was intentional.
no doubt it's very frustrating to have people focusing on one line or maybe two-three lines from such a huge project, especially when there were plenty of throw away lines in the orginal games. I simply want to offer my support on the overall value of what you've created, and affirm that there are plenty of people who see the big picture and don't get upset by the few things that really seem to wind others up.
Thanks for the great game. I bought it twice
Perhaps someone will give you a response on why they decided to put what they put into the game. I don't think I'd put money on it however.
The community will read what they want to into what they want to regardless of what anyone has to say. Anyone who believes that addressing any of what's occupying the discussions on this forum will do anyone any good is kidding themselves.
For anyone who's got an honest to God problem they'd like someone from the dev or QA staff to see, I recommend bumping your posts and quit responding to any of the other stuff happening here. We're here to help you but it's gettnig harder and harder to do so when your posts are all being bumped to the end of the train by the ongoing 200 thread "discussion" happening over a handful of lines in a 50 hour game.
So while it's all well and good, this was probably just one big troll :P