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Druid: Avenger Solo Playthrough

BlobbersonBlobberson Member Posts: 12
edited September 2012 in Archive (General Discussion)
Never played BGI, but I played BGII and solo'd with a bunch of different characters.

For those who've played BGI, what would a Druid Avenger solo playthrough look like?
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Comments

  • CorvinoCorvino Member Posts: 2,269
    Given that you only get your shapeshift stuff at level 7 it'd be pretty hard early on. You'd die a lot early in the game unless abusing web, I reckon.

    BG1 favours fighters for the first few levels, and playing without a tank or summons early on would be painful.
  • CorvinoCorvino Member Posts: 2,269
    edited September 2012
    Accidental double post
  • sandmanCCLsandmanCCL Member Posts: 1,389
    I don't imagine it'd be any harder than playing a solo druid in BG1, which is to say not hard.

    Entangle + slings = dead creatures. Easy peasy. Plus you'd be able to huck chromatic orbs and webs to be that much more dangerous.
  • elminsterelminster Member, Developer Posts: 16,316
    Chromatic Orb, Web, lightning bolt, and eventually improved invisibility, not the mention the rest of the druid spells, would mean that it would be fairly easy I would say. One helpful timbit would be that if you kill an ankheg take its shell and travel to the smith in Beregost. He will give you the option of paying $4000 to create ankheg armor for you. I would recommend that you do so (you should have the amount of money needed by that point, and if you don't you can always drop the shell because ankheg's are easy to find in the game in certain areas). For druids there are not a lot of choices when it comes to powerful armour in the game, especially not for avengers. However, you can wear ankheg armour even as an avenger.

    Other than that, be cautious, try to get your maximum of 10 hitpoints at each level up (based on having 16 constitution), and take your time. There are traps that can kill you in the game after all.
  • UlysissUlysiss Member Posts: 18
    ***SPOILER***


    Rather than killing an Anheg and paying 4000g you can find a ready made Anheg Plate in the Nashkell Town map. Its located on the left hand side of the vertical fields. Its very easy to miss so look it up on the net and then use the Tab function if you can.
  • CorvinoCorvino Member Posts: 2,269
    I'm not sure avengers can wear ankheg armour as they're restricted to leather. I tried on my last Tutu playthrough, but it may vary depending on your install/Tutu mod of choice.
  • sandmanCCLsandmanCCL Member Posts: 1,389
    Avengers can't wear better than raw leather, correct. The best armor you can find to wear is the Leather Armor +2 from the guys that attack you after you exit Nashkel.

    That means no Ankheg armor.
  • elminsterelminster Member, Developer Posts: 16,316
    edited September 2012
    I just checked in in BG2 (without the fixpack) and it works on avengers. I'm not sure if the fixpack does anything to this, though I doubt it. Presumable it should work therefore in Tutu/BGT.

    Personally I always prefer to play BG vanilla so that when I play BG2 I can import my druid into an avenger in BG2 which bypasses the 16 strength/constitution penalty you'd normally get at character creation. So that is the only reason I'm not sure if it is any different in Tutu.


  • sandmanCCLsandmanCCL Member Posts: 1,389
    Really? Interesting. That doesn't make a lot of sense to me because Ankheg armor is still plate and therefore should not be usable by druids anyway.
  • elminsterelminster Member, Developer Posts: 16,316
    I think the idea is that it is natural armour. There is a thread on this in the fixed section, and it is entirely possible that this won't work in BG1EE.
  • AmardarialAmardarial Member Posts: 270
    It's Natural Armor, Fixpack fixes it being count as Magical Armor, which is why without Mods, you might not be able to use it.

    If BG:EE fixes it, avengers should be able to use it, as they would see it as natural armor and not plate.
  • Metal_HurlantMetal_Hurlant Member Posts: 324
    edited September 2012
    I've always seen the Ankheg Armor as natural armor and not the usual normal/magical plate. It also makes sense to me that something natural would be usable by a druid.
  • sandmanCCLsandmanCCL Member Posts: 1,389
    But the thing is "plate" is a type, more so than it is a material. After all, fighter/druids can wear metal armors. Druids can still wield scimitars and spears which both have metal components.

    In 3rd Edition this would be another matter entirely, but for AD&D purposes there tends to be a very clear-cut "can/cannot" clause when it comes to items. Druids equipping Ankheg armor seems like an oversight, especially if Avengers can do it. Avengers shouldn't be able to use gear heavier than plain leather. If they can't use even studded leather, why would they be able to use a plate armor? Just because it's made out of bug shells? They can't use dragonscale armors just because they are dragonscale.
  • QuartzQuartz Member Posts: 3,853

    Avengers can't wear better than raw leather, correct. The best armor you can find to wear is the Leather Armor +2 from the guys that attack you after you exit Nashkel.

    That means no Ankheg armor.

    Leather Armor +3 in Durlag's Tower.
  • ZaorZaor Member Posts: 69
    From a roleplaying standpoint, Avengers are the more hard-core druids. Druids cannot, by oath, wear metal armor. I suppose Avengers consider the metallic studs in studded leather metal and thus reject it. Druids as a whole could always wear Ankheg plate, as it is not metal. I would guess that's how Avengers made the list for Ankheg plate too.

    Can Avengers wear hide armor added by ToSC? I never tried, since it's worse.
  • Metal_HurlantMetal_Hurlant Member Posts: 324

    Just because it's made out of bug shells? They can't use dragonscale armors just because they are dragonscale.

    In Baldurs Gate II, Druids can use dragonscale armor because it's not Plate. As I said, it makes sense to me because it's natural armor.
  • Metal_HurlantMetal_Hurlant Member Posts: 324
    Zaor said:

    From a roleplaying standpoint, Avengers are the more hard-core druids. Druids cannot, by oath, wear metal armor. I suppose Avengers consider the metallic studs in studded leather metal and thus reject it. Druids as a whole could always wear Ankheg plate, as it is not metal. I would guess that's how Avengers made the list for Ankheg plate too.

    Can Avengers wear hide armor added by ToSC? I never tried, since it's worse.

    I just checked in BG1 and Druids can indeed wear hide armor. I also agree with everything you said.

  • Metal_HurlantMetal_Hurlant Member Posts: 324
    edited September 2012
    I just checked my 2nd ed players book and it says, 'the druid is allowed to use only "natural" armors'. Which as some of us has pointed out in the thread would include ankheg and scale armor, as this would be classed as natural armor. It also goes on to say it includes padded and hide.

    The Complete Druids Handbook also mentions, 'Most druids wear natural armor (leather)...'
  • sandmanCCLsandmanCCL Member Posts: 1,389


    In Baldurs Gate II, Druids can use dragonscale armor because it's not Plate. As I said, it makes sense to me because it's natural armor.

    Just decided to test this and sure enough, it's that way but only for the armors from Shadows of Amn. The Blue Dragon Scale cannot be used by Druids.

    The White Dragon scale, oddly enough, can be used by regular druids but not Avengers.

    In summation, the rules regarding what druids can and cannot wear is arbitrary in the video games. I had always assumed they couldn't use at least the Red Dragon Scale as it is classified as Full Plate and figured they were barred from the armor type. You think I would have noticed considering the second guy I ever beat BG2 with was a Totemic Druid.

    Maybe I did and it's just been so long I forgot.

    While I'm testing things, I decided to see if any of these armors were usable by Archer and Stalker. They can use the White and Shadow dragon scales as both are classified as studded leather and leather armors respectively. So that is working as intented.

    I'm also looking at the description of Ankheg Armor.

    image
  • Metal_HurlantMetal_Hurlant Member Posts: 324



    Just decided to test this and sure enough, it's that way but only for the armors from Shadows of Amn. The Blue Dragon Scale cannot be used by Druids.

    The White Dragon scale, oddly enough, can be used by regular druids but not Avengers.

    In summation, the rules regarding what druids can and cannot wear is arbitrary in the video games. I had always assumed they couldn't use at least the Red Dragon Scale as it is classified as Full Plate and figured they were barred from the armor type. You think I would have noticed considering the second guy I ever beat BG2 with was a Totemic Druid.

    Maybe I did and it's just been so long I forgot.

    While I'm testing things, I decided to see if any of these armors were usable by Archer and Stalker. They can use the White and Shadow dragon scales as both are classified as studded leather and leather armors respectively. So that is working as intented.

    I'm also looking at the description of Ankheg Armor.

    image

    As far as I know the following armor can be used by a straight Druid. Never checked with different kits.

    In SoA:
    - Red Dragon Scale
    - Ashen Scales +2 (Bodhi's Lair)
    - Shadow Dragon Scale

    In ToB:
    - White Dragon Scale

    I never thought about it being plate as the Prima game guide lists Scale and Plate as two different types of armor under two separate headings.
  • sandmanCCLsandmanCCL Member Posts: 1,389
    edited September 2012


    As far as I know the following armor can be used by a straight Druid. Never checked with different kits.

    In SoA:
    - Red Dragon Scale
    - Ashen Scales +2 (Bodhi's Lair)
    - Shadow Dragon Scale

    In ToB:
    - White Dragon Scale

    I never thought about it being plate as the Prima game guide lists Scale and Plate as two different types of armor under two separate headings.

    Ashen Scales +2 can't be used by druids. Just checked, so I'm 100% positive of this. Says they are wyvern scales backed by regular chainmail so I guess that'd be why from a lore reason. Or it's just another oversight on what seems to be really arbitrary.

    Also checked with a Barbarians, who cannot wear plate and full plate but can equip with regular Scale armor, as per the armor type. Barbarians can't use the Red Dragon Scale. It is full plate armor made with red dragon scales, not a scale armor as in the type of gear. (They also can't use Ankheg armor, meaning that too is also Plate, but I think we all already knew that.)

    This would suggest druids should not be able to use it. Or if they can use it, they should then also be able to use the Blue Dragon Scale in Throne of Bhaal.

    Confused yet? I know I am. Pretty sure the rules are arbitrary or at least the implementation of them in the BG games sure is.
  • BrudeBrude Member Posts: 560
    Sands, I dunno it doesn't sound arbitrary to me at all.

    Barbs & Stalkers: Limited by armor type.

    Druids: Limited depending on materials.

    It sounds like the Blue Scale not working for Druids is a mistake. Change that and everything's consistent, no?
  • elminsterelminster Member, Developer Posts: 16,316
    I hope they leave the druid with being able to use ankheg armour. It is relatively easy to get in both games, and it makes a big difference in their defence considering they can only use bucklers.
  • BlobbersonBlobberson Member Posts: 12
    Well either way, how cheesy do you think you'd have to get with a solo avenger?

    Obviously a Kensai/Mage dual, or a Ranger/Cleric dual, or a strait up mage or sorcerer doesn't have to get too cheesy, but I'd imagine a weaker class might.

    Thoughts?
  • sandmanCCLsandmanCCL Member Posts: 1,389
    I'm not sure what you mean there, @Blobberson. Cheesy how?

    Avengers don't really rely on "cheese." You can basically use them as a mage early game, between their chromatic orbs and webs. Level 7, you can start turning into a sword spider and attempting to shred things to bits in melee that way. They are possibly the most complete single class in the game.
  • CheesebellyCheesebelly Member Posts: 1,727
    On BG1, Avengers are kind of overpowered. Between Web + Sword Spider (you are immune to web and can poison victims) in conjunction to Iron Skins and Insect Plagues, or by simply abusing level 10, petrifying Chromatic Orbs (which can insta-kill Sarevok quite easily).

    They are kind of a weak link until level 3 though, and are terribly hard to have a good stat roll with.
    Not sure for BG2, but I remember having an Avenger with Ankheg plate in BG1. Probably will be fixed for BGEE though, as it would make sense.

    I interpret the "no armor greater than leather" as "no armor with a Base non-enchanted armor class better than leather". Ankheg Plate is +2 with a non-enchanted base of 3, right? (Plate Mail). Or is it considered a Full Plate?
  • sandmanCCLsandmanCCL Member Posts: 1,389
    I wouldn't say they are a weak link until level 3. If you get your wisdom to at least 15, you'll have more spells per day than a mage in the party would and will be deadly with chromatic orbs if nothing else.

    You gotta play an avenger in humanoid form differently than most druids.

    Also to assuage the difficulty of getting "good" rolls on them, I recommend gimping strength down to 10. Druids don't really need it, an Avenger least of all. Remember that shapeshifted, your physical stats are simply that of the creature you are turned into so it wouldn't matter if you maxed out at 16 strength. It makes carry capacity a bit of a chore, but it's almost necessary.
  • elminsterelminster Member, Developer Posts: 16,316
    edited September 2012
    Chromatic orb has one big issue for druids though. When it is cast by a level ten character (aka a maximum level for a druid in BG1EE/Tutu) and the victim fails to make a save they are turned to stone. Kind of a downer spell if you were hoping to get any items off the target.

    Though it makes going all Irenicus and turning people to stone very easy.
  • DragonspearDragonspear Member Posts: 1,838
    @Elminster

    I sorta want that to be the one time Sarevok doesn't resist or make his save. Just once for laughs
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