[Request] Change Minsc class from Ranger to Berserker fighter.

Sikorsky

Since Berserker was added to BG2, there's no other way. Minsc is Berserker! I have no idea why they give him Ranger class. It's a biggest mistake! Having a hamster doesn't make you a Ranger.

The_New_Romance

... again? @Thantalas, time to sigh again, I fear

elminster

http://forum.baldursgate.com/discussion/comment/86377/#Comment_86377

There is already a general thread on this, and frankly I don't see them changing his class. Just use Shadowkeeper.

Kithrixx

It's actually a major storyline point in BGII that Minsc is specifically a ranger, so... I'm gonna have to disagree with this.

Tanthalas

I completely disagree with changing this and I seriously doubt they would ever implement this.

Azchar111

I believe the devs are (contractually) not able to make drastic changes to existing game assets.

Dee

Azchar111 said:

I believe the devs are (contractually) not able to make drastic changes to existing game assets.

Certainly not controversial ones like this, anyway.

I bet we could convince them to make Xan a Kensai, though...

Debaser

@Sikorsky This is the thread I started in the General Forum on the subject, but instead of changing Minsc to one class or another, I wanted him to be a Dual Class Character.

http://forum.baldursgate.com/discussion/4978/who-here-thinks-minsc-should-be-a-ranger-dual-classed-to-berserker-due-to-his-headwound#latest

I think Minsc should be a Dual Classed Ranger lvl 1 / Beserker lvl 1-whatever when you find him due to his head-wound. Even if this bends the rules a bit, it explain his personality, so I posted my thread in the General section to gauge people's opinions first because, before formally suggesting it I wanted to see how people felt. Some agree, some don't. I don't think at that point it would alter him, his story, and his quests in any real tangible way that would hurt your experience with him. And then he would get the benefits of Grand Mastery in melee weapons and bonus rages every 4 levels that are identical to his Boo Rage instead of cleric spells he doesn't have the smarts to cast properly. From what I understand it might not be legal for them to change him in any real way. So...I am going to think on hitting up the Mod forum about trying to get someone who does mods into making a small one where Minsc is a Ranger / Berserker. Something small / easy to install essentially. I still might make a formal request thread here anyway. But...I decided that the out of the possible features I could want implemented...the most important one was a better Grand Mastery system of bonuses that made sense. So I'm appealing for that first.

Sikorsky

I get your idea, but as many people said - technicaly it's imposible. There might be some storyline in BGII that make some sense for a ranger. But in overall Minsc is berserker from the beginning. Talking to a hamster doesn't mean that they have some special mental connection like Drizzt and Guenhwyvar. He's just a man with a hamster. In dialoges we can read that He is a strong guy, personali I didn't feel his strenght. If they change the class to Berserker Minsc will be more powerfull but not overpowered, a good replace for Korgan.

Jrk

This may be a trollin rant, but I'm ok with that as it's fittingly reciprocative to the request:


Dude... If I had the ability to press disagree I would. It's not the hamster that makes him a Ranger, it's the man...foo. You're attempting to change major players, this is not the NFL. You just can't make Abraham Lincoln black because he promoted an anti-slvaery platform and it would be in their interests; just like you can't make Minsc a bezerker cause he's bipolar and it better serves your interests.

"That does not make sense. If the arguement doesn't make sense, the jury must acquit." -Johnny Cochrane

Sikorsky

Calm down. There was a lot of discussions even before BG:EE about his class. It's not my own interests. Technicaly you can'y even made a ranger with this level of wisdom, it's against the rules. And roleplaying, Minsc hidding in shadows? Please! Minsc casting spells? No way! I just thought that some characters can be changed since they bring BGII rules to BGI. Kivan should be an archer for example.

Dee

People go 'round and 'round on this one. Some people are unable to divorce Minsc from the fact that he calls himself a ranger. Other people are unable to divorce Minsc from the fact that he has a berserker's rage.

In such cases, the best solution is to leave it to the modders, and not touch the content in the game.

LadyRhian

You know, in the pen and paper game as in Warriors and Priests of the Realms, even regular warriors in Rashemen have the ability to rage. Same with the elite Berserkers. From what I understand, Minsc was a berserker Ranger before he got hit on the head and his wits disordered. He also has his head shaved- and Rashemi usually keep their hair long. Maybe it was shaved because of his head wound and he liked it better that way? The tattoo could be covering up his scars.

Dee

The tattoo is actually a permanent bruise from whatever he hit his head on in the first place. True story.

Tanthalas

If we start having a problem with Minsc having illegal stats for a Ranger, we'd also need to correct other NPCs having illegal stats too, like Coran and Kagain.

krikkert

Sikorsky said:

Since Berserker was added to BG2, there's no other way. Minsc is Berserker! I have no idea why they give him Ranger class. It's a biggest mistake! Having a hamster doesn't make you a Ranger.

I agree that he should be made a berserker. Simply because it makes sense to do so. It makes sense that he is a berserker.

Demivrgvs

I really don't understand why almost everyone asking for changing Minsc's class think the Berserk kit would be more appropriate than the Barbarian. The latter fits much better his lore (Rasheemar warriors are Barbarians, not professionaly trained True Fighters), his love for nature and animals, and even his stats imo. Not to mention there's already a Berserker in BG2 (Korgan), and Shar-Teel is at least as Berserker as Minsc, if not more.

Sikorsky

Barbarian is also a good idea.

elminster

Minsc has been officially a ranger for 14 years. He is a pretty competent fighter as one and frankly not every NPC needs to be a powerhouse including even close fighters. I say leave him as he is.

Dee

@elminster I don't know that people are talking about his strengths as a warrior; i think people are more concerned about flavor.

elminster

@aosaw it has been brought up previously in Debaser's thread on this topic that Sarevok is stronger and so Minsc because his berserk doesn't improve over time is the logical person to drop as a fighter in TOB (in favour of taking on Sarevok) over say someone like Keldorn.

Dee

Ah, I wasn't aware of that argument.

Miloch

elminster said:

There is already a general thread on this, and frankly I don't see them changing his class. Just use Shadowkeeper.

Sigh. Has no one here heard of Level 1 NPCs?

http://www.gibberlings3.net/level1npcs/

Dee

@Miloch Honestly, that mod always struck me as being kind of user-unfriendly. I'd like it a lot more if it had some kind of intuitive interface that would allow you to quickly alter each NPC, instead of having to click through each one's class, race, kit, and ability scores.

I like the end result, but the way it gets there is kind of cumbersome in my opinion.

Miloch

@Aosaw - Pleh. We know. It's something I mentioned early on in alpha testing, but we are limited to the textual capabilities of WeiDU. WeiGUI was still kind of a pie in the sky idea last I heard.

If you want to use Shadowkeeper, don't let me stop you, but I'm not sure it's quicker or easier, considering you *can* go through a bunch of NPCs even with WeiDU in a relatively short period of time. Pressing a number and ENTER isn't all that hard, after all.

Also, don't let me stop you from convicing the developers they need to build this into the game as an option... and hire me to do it (they should really hire Nythrun but we haven't heard from her for some time, sadly).

Dee

@Miloch Oh, I agree. Shadowkeeper isn't ideal either, because it only affects NPCs you've already recruited in your current party.

That said, maybe this sort of functionality could be added to Shadowkeeper itself, allowing people to modify other NPCs within a saved game? That way you could start your game, save it, and then edit it in Shadowkeeper to make Xan a Kensai, Minsc a Barbarian, Jaheira an Avenger, Khalid a Fighter/Mage...

You could even give a portrait to Gorion!

Miloch

@Aosaw - I'm not sure we have the source code for Shadowkeeper, nor any contact with the developer. It could be reverse-engineered I suppose, but is it worth it? It does fill a gap in Level 1 NPCs if you can edit your saved-game characters (since in Level 1 NPCs, you edit characters outside of saves i.e. before they join). We could add functionality to Level 1 NPCs so it allows editing of saved-game NPCs too, but that is shaky ground editing saved games (mainly for technical reasons... keeping backups is always a good idea if something doesn't turn out right).

Re: portraits for unjoined NPCs, there are plenty of mods that do that, BG1 NPC Project for one. And for party NPCs, countless mods (including one of my own I never got the chance to make into a mod, but the portraits are out there).

http://www.gibberlings3.net/bg1npc/index.php
http://www.shsforums.net/topic/34869-clerics-get-their-deity-colours/

Dee

Well, Shadowkeeper is probably going to have to be updated to be compatible with the EE anyway, won't it? So if that means developing a new one from scratch, this could probably just be one of the things that it strives to do.

Anyway, that's something that's kind of outside the scope of this request. If I had a Wish, I'd wish for the Level 1 NPCs mod (the part that lets you modify NPC statistics) to have a more user-friendly interface that doesn't rely on WeiDU. But that's probably more work than the average run-of-the-mill modder would have time to execute.

Miloch

@Aosaw - I don't think so. A lot of things in the game have changed no doubt, but not the basic CRE/character structures (that would invalidate a whole hell of a lot). So you should be able to use Shadowkeeper on BGEE NPCs. Something you can test, no doubt?

As for your wish, it could be done. Would require a GUI, preferably an in-game one. Wouldn't necessarily require source code access but that would be preferable. Still, the L1NPCs code is so stable (look at the bug reports on G3... practically nil... compared with the end users... practically... a whole lot :P) that I would be disinclined to mess with it. It's monstrous doing what it does. It certainly is possible a GUI could do the same thing though (and maybe just call the WeiDU in the background). I don't think the bigg's WeiGUI will ever take off though and possibly it never will. Haven't even seen head nor hair from the bugger for some time.

Dee

Miloch said:

@Aosaw - I don't think so. A lot of things in the game have changed no doubt, but not the basic CRE/character structures (that would invalidate a whole hell of a lot). So you should be able to use Shadowkeeper on BGEE NPCs. Something you can test, no doubt?

I suppose that's true. I hadn't thought of it that way.

As for your wish, it could be done. Would require a GUI, preferably an in-game one. Wouldn't necessarily require source code access but that would be preferable. Still, the L1NPCs code is so stable (look at the bug reports on G3... practically nil... compared with the end users... practically... a whole lot :P) that I would be disinclined to mess with it. It's monstrous doing what it does. It certainly is possible a GUI could do the same thing though (and maybe just call the WeiDU in the background). I don't think the bigg's WeiGUI will ever take off though and possibly it never will. Haven't even seen head nor hair from the bugger for some time.

That's kind of what I was thinking. A GUI frame that would do all the WeiDU stuff in the background, to streamline the experience for the end user.

Dee

@Miloch
I just checked the website, and the source code for Shadow Keeper is available for download. So something like this could feasibly be done, and if any adjusting needs to be done to make it compatible with the EE, it should be possible.