[Request] Make Nimbul fight easier

AzL0n

Anyone else thinks that the Nimbul fight is way too hard? He starts by fearing all of your party and then proceeds to kill one after another by shooting like 5 magic missiles at a time. He manages to kill all of my party at an incredible speed. I always end up using a frost wand on him destroying the boots of avoidance in the process . Anyway my point is, he's like a level 9 bard which is way too tough right after Nashkel mines when your party is all still level one and two assuming that you haven't done any side quests first.

Any thoughts on this?

Ecthelion

You just need the cleric level 1 spell "Remove fear" to be cast on your party. After that, Nimbul is a piece of cake to kill.

kamuizin

He's astounting weak, a piece of cake to kill him, the only assassination atempt that maybe need a remake is the frist one, with probally 2 characters on the party (unseless you take Xzar and montaron), and sometimes alone, that fight can be pretty hard, even with the city guards helping.

As a wizard his spells don't miss and with 6-10 pvs normally anithing there can be fatal if you and the guards miss so much the attacks. Better remake that assassination attempt with a warrior or thief instead of a wizard. Even a priest would be nice.

AzL0n

''He's astounting weak, a piece of cake to kill him''

Huhhhhh... oookay... I actually think the first assassination attempt is very easy due to the mage's terrible A.C. Nimbul on the other hand is a lot harder to hit. But yeah you're right it can be tough without Xzart and Monty.

''You just need the cleric level 1 spell "Remove fear" to be cast on your party. After that, Nimbul is a piece of cake to kill.''

I'm aware of remove fear thing is he instantaneously does mirror image and then proceeds to throw a crapload of magic missiles.

Anyways just a minor point. No matter.

Tanthalas

Well, this is a case of "your mileage may vary". The assassination attempt at the Friendly Arm Inn also causes me more problems.

Drugar

Aye, when I played BG1 13 years ago (GOD I'm old) I almost threw my keyboard at the screen in frustration at Tarnesh the FAI assassin.
He horror'd me and Imoen (I'd completely missed the Dynamic Duo) time and time again before killing me. Eventually, I only won because I ran away when he tried to talk to me, lured him around the temple, go into the Inn before he'd reached me and then only confronted him when I'd picked up Khalid and Jaheira.

Nimbul can be a bastard but he's hardly insurmountable. By then, proper application of swords to face is a much more manageble tactic.

AzL0n

I guess the Tarnesh fight doesn't bother me as much since I always play no reload and when he manages to kill me it doesn't take me as long to get back to the same place with my new game LOL

Nimbul on the other hand has made me cry a few times by killing me and me having to start over a 5+ hour long game. Now I know better of course but I just imagine a new player doing that fight for the first time and I don't think he would survive. Then again a new player would probably get pwned by Tarnesh as well... *Shrug*

Winthal

I've had the Nimbul encounter play out in several interesting ways, one time the Amnish soldiers patrolling up and down the streets all rolled critical hits (about 3-4 of them anyway, in their first barrage of arrows) which instantly killed him.
Other times, I simply use abit of tactic on Nimbul, prepare a remove fear spell as mentioned above, and everyone use melee weapons since he is wearing boots of avoidance making ranged attacks mostly useless (unless you critical hit :P), cast magic missile + use wand of magic missile to quickly get rid of the mirror image and interrupt his spell casting. He usually goes down pretty quick, but yeah.. alot of things can go wrong making him a risky opponent for Hardcore Mode

I say leave him as he is, the game needs some challenging encounters

Zafiro

Another cheesy way is to charm him with Algernon's Cloak, cast his MM on his own mirror images and run all over the poor lad; or so i remember.
I say remove the charm ability from Algernon's Cloak and add more assassins.

smeagolheart

BG is all about tactics, if you can't handle the Nimbul, go level up your character before fighting him, loot or buy some kit that will make it easier, or get some companions to help. He is not impossible if you have some magic missles of your own his mirror image goes down fast.

Like the helpscreen says changing tactics can make an impossible fight er possibler.

nulspace

I guess the Tarnesh fight doesn't bother me as much since I always play no reload and when he manages to kill me it doesn't take me as long to get back to the same place with my new game LOL

No offense meant, but complaining about the difficulty of the game while simultaneously playing "no-reload" doesn't make any sense...whatsoever. No-reload is meant to be hard. In fact, the entire game is meant to be hard - that's one of the beautiful things about this game: it didn't sugar-coat everything, and hacking/slashing your way through would more than often lead to death.

Dee

I remember Nimbul. Specifically, I remember killing him with Varscona. I don't remember him being all that challenging.

kamuizin

No offense meant, but complaining about the difficulty of the game while simultaneously playing "no-reload" doesn't make any sense...whatsoever. No-reload is meant to be hard. In fact, the entire game is meant to be hard - that's one of the beautiful things about this game: it didn't sugar-coat everything, and hacking/slashing your way through would more than often lead to death.

And i have to agree here, touche.

ElectricMonk

Well, this is a case of "your mileage may vary". The assassination attempt at the Friendly Arm Inn also causes me more problems.

Yeah, I usually end up struggling more with him than with Nimbul as well. Either way, neither of them seem too ridiculously difficult, and I'd personally prefer if neither/no fights were made easier. I enjoy the challenge, and choosing to play without reloads is a further challenge we can impose upon ourselves (and one that I do enjoy).

Lindeblom

I think it says in the BG manual, and I am sure it says in other games that; IF you keep dying, try something else/new. I often get stuck doing a quest/monster/problem the same way over and over again. Sometimes a complete overhaul helps, use more/less spells, use/don't use arrows etc.....a very tough fight can seem easy when you hit the right tactic. (In many cases, some tough encounters are tough=).

Kore

Requests to make the game easier do not tend to go down too well in this forum and in this case I agree. Making the game easier for the sake of easiness is not something that I'm in favour of (though I stand by Gauntlets of Ogre Strength for party member flexibility ^^) and judging by the reaction here I think most people here are of the same opinion.

Also (and I haven't read the whole thread to see if this was already suggested) you could simply turn down the difficulty for that single fight if you're finding it too difficult.

Boaster

I never found Nimbul to be hard to beat, just challenging at some times.

Do the door shuffle, or walk by him as Fist mercenaries do.

AzL0n

@Zafiro
''Another cheesy way is to charm him with Algernon's Cloak, cast his MM on his own mirror images and run all over the poor lad; or so i remember.
I say remove the charm ability from Algernon's Cloak and add more assassins.
Flag''

Yeah you see it's cheesy tactics like this that I want to avoid in my games at all costs. The Nymbul fight will undoubtedly be easier for people who use the Algernon Cloak or who attack NPC's before they turn hostile or run away from them but I don't do that. I like to roleplay my games and if you're roleplaying you don't know that this guy is coming to kill you before he talks to you so I don't attack him. I agree with you though the Algernon Cloak needs to be nerfed. I think there's enough assassination attempts as it is though.

@nulspace

I don't play no reload only because it's hard, I play it for the roleplay aspect too. In P&P D&D you don't get to just reload all the time. To me re-loading just kills the excitment from the game. Similarly, I've been doing this thing in my recent games where I don't get prepared for an unexpected fight because my characters don't know about it. I'm not trying to brag about the fact that I play no reload I'm not a better player than anyone else, all I'm saying is that playing this way is what is fun to me.

As I said earlier the way I see if a fight is too difficult is this way: I ask myself, could a new player survive this encounter on the first try? The answer for that one is almost unvariably no since it's tough and unexpected. Most new players will have to reload for this one. To me this isn't a case of not ''sugar-coating'' it's more about it being too hard and makes players resort to cheap tactics to beat it. I just imagine a game of P&P D&D where a DM plans for his players to die on a certain encounter and I don't think it would make for a successfull campaign. A DM wouldn't have his level 1 and 2 players encounter a level 9 bard.

@Kore

''Requests to make the game easier do not tend to go down too well in this forum''

I know... an heresy

Anyway we can drop this discussion, obviously.

nulspace

In P&P D&D you don't get to just reload all the time... I ask myself, could a new player survive this encounter on the first try? The answer for that one is almost unvariably no since it's tough and unexpected. Most new players will have to reload for this one. To me this isn't a case of not ''sugar-coating'' it's more about it being too hard and makes players resort to cheap tactics to beat it. I just imagine a game of P&P D&D where a DM plans for his players to die on a certain encounter and I don't think it would make for a successfull campaign. A DM wouldn't have his level 1 and 2 players encounter a level 9 bard.

I understand where you're coming from, but I think it's unfair to BG to compare it to PnP, despite the same ruleset/universe of DnD. BG was not designed as a PnP game, it was designed as a mass-appeal, albeit challenging, computer game. Reloading is, like it or not, part of the game as the designers intended it to be. PnP allows players an almost-infinitely higher amount of freedom in how to go about approaching a scenario; BG is limited by its engine and progressive storyline, and so the player is by association.

I personally get no enjoyment from a video game if I'm able to one-shot the entire game on my first run.

AzL0n

@nulspace

''I understand where you're coming from, but I think it's unfair to BG to compare it to PnP, despite the same ruleset/universe of DnD. BG was not designed as a PnP game, it was designed as a mass-appeal, albeit challenging, computer game. Reloading is, like it or not, part of the game as the designers intended it to be.

I personally get no enjoyment from a video game if I'm able to one-shot the entire game on my first run.''

Yeah I feel you. I have a slightly different perspective of the game due to the way I play it now but obviously most people don't understand my request since they play the classic way just as you do. Anyway this was just a minor detail which I had on my mind, far from being a real concern. Funny how the most innocuous threads always end up dragging out the most. *Reminiscing the tab debate*

lansounet

About the Algernon's Cloak bit : One has to know about it before hitting the quest in Baldur's Gate, which is far long after the Nimbul encounter, when having a 100% charm might be a good thing when your opponents saving throws are that much higher.

kamuizin

Just remember that in P&P games, unseless the entire party is dead, any survivor can carry the bodies to a temple and revive the fallen with money OR DOING A QUEST normally (what is not possible in BG). In BG if main char dies the game ends (and imoem dead shoud be permanent dead as well as she too is a son of Bhaal, but each spawn with his own special abilities, so... whaterver...).

P&P open a huge world of choices that a plataform game don't, as negotiate with every hostile creature you meet, run and hide, pull the carpet under an enemy to make him fall, monsters there don't aim always for the party, they sometimes fight each other too, and etc.. etc... etc...

Dee

I can empathize with not wanting to spoil your immersion, but...I don't know. I'm all about PnP compliance, but this isn't a PnP rules situation, it's a game engine mechanics situation. Part of the reason why the game auto-saves when you move to a new location is specifically so that if you enter a fight that's too much for you, you're not reloading from the very beginning.

I also still have not experienced the same challenges with Nimbul. Maybe it's because I almost always equip my party with ranged weapons, which attack more frequently than melee weapons, which dispels his mirror image faster (I'm also usually wielding Varscona with my Charname, giving me a nice damage and to-hit bonus that's useful). But for me, that fight isn't all that hard.

Honestly, until you pointed it out in this thread, it never would have occurred to me that he might be level 9. That is a little high for a party of level 5 characters.

AzL0n

@Iansounet

I think the problem that most people have with the Algernon Cloak is that it has an unlimited amount of charm that is very hard to resist. Basically you can solo the whole game just by making enemies fight eachother with it. Now if it was one charm a day I wouldn't complain, hell I'd even use it. As it is I don't ever pick it up however.

@kamuizin

''Just remember that in P&P games, unseless the entire party is dead, any survivor can carry the bodies to a temple and revive the fallen with money OR DOING A QUEST normally (what is not possible in BG). In BG if main char dies the game ends (and imoem dead shoud be permanent dead as well as she too is a son of Bhaal, but each spawn with his own special abilities, so... whaterver...).''

Good point. This aspect makes P&P a lot easier.

''P&P open a huge world of choices that a plataform game don't, as negotiate with every hostile creature you meet, run and hide, pull the carpet under an enemy to make him fall, monsters there don't aim always for the party, they sometimes fight each other too, and etc.. etc... etc...''

If only video games could be like that hehe... Someday

AzL0n

@Aosaw

You finish the Nashkel mines with level 5 characters? You must do a lot of side quests. In this game that I just started I went against Nimbul with all of my characters being level 1 except Jaheira who always levels up first. I always do the Nashkel mines before any side quests because of the sense of urgency from the NPC's and the story to get it done (Khalid, Jaheira, Montaron, Xzart all wanting to go down there ASAP.)

The way I see it if your characters were level 5 and you had 6 of them and you were going up against a level 9 enemy then there's no problem 5x6=30 making you more than three times stronger than him if it's fair to calculate this way. When all of your characters are still level one though that gives him an advantage of 3 levels. It's the same reason why people are saying that the Tarnesh fight is hard because assuming you've got Montaron and Xzar, Tarnesh is still one level above your party of four since he is level 5. Only with Nimbul it's 3 levels higher (2 if you've got Jaheira who levels up early) If you haven't done any side quests that is.

But you guys are right when you do resist fear it actually is kind of a piece of cake. It's just hard when you play it the nerdy way of pretending you don't know what's gonna come next. Which I like to do

Dee

Well, I pick up Minsc - and then I go get Dynaheir because Minsc wants to rescue her, and that seems a bit more urgent than "fixing the mine". By the time I get into the mines themselves, I've cleared out most of the southwestern areas, rescued Dynaheir (and thus also picked up about three dozen gnolls worth of XP, along with Nexlit's entire clan of xvarts, plus a cave bear). I also tend to do the side quests between Beregost and the Friendly Arm - killing spiders gives me a bit more XP as well, and has the added bonus of sometimes killing Khalid - so by the time I even begin the Nashkel Mines, I'm usually level 3.

Then, when I'm actually in the mines themselves, I tend to kill every single kobold in the place, because I decided a long time ago that I despise kobolds. Add in the spiders, ghouls, and then Mulahey and his minions, as well as any random bandit ambushes encountered between areas, and I'm almost always at least level 4, and a fair bit of the way toward level 5.

And all of this, bear in mind, is what I consider the minimum amount of side quests without breaking character to avoid them.

But yes, if you're level 1 and fighting Nimbul...I don't know. "good luck"?

Probably, Nimbul's level should be scaled based on party level. A good rule of thumb is that a decent challenge is somewhere between 2 and 3 levels higher than the average level of the party. So for a party of level 1 characters, Nimbul should be level 3 or 4. A level 5 party should be facing a level 7 or 8 version of him.

AzL0n

@Aosaw

''and has the added bonus of sometimes killing Khalid ''

LOL, how crual! Elven stuttering folks really don't have it easy do they? I wouldn't want to be Jaheira in your party ;(

Good post

Dee

Oh, don't worry.

Jaheira will learn to love me...eventually...

[/creepy]

AzL0n

@Aosaw

Lmao

Majoca

I find it interesting the different ways people play this game, when this enhanced edition comes out im going to give it a try with ironman modes and such, ive always wanted to do a single runthrough with just a bard or something. Anyway Ive never found Nimbul too much of a problem, ever? Mirror Images are easy to knock down and I always have loose spells for random encounters. Instead of havign a mixed library of different spells I make sure I have like 2 resist fears amongst the party and frequentley use them just in case. I do however rest a lot. I think what would be good is if it had a never winter recuperation where isntead of resting for 8 hours just so you can identify the last piece of equipment or too change spells around you could relax for an hour or two to get you ready so it doesnt look like its taken your party like 200 days to find sarevok :P My opinion

aXidal

"Probably, Nimbul's level should be scaled based on party level."

No, no, no. Whatever they decides do, they should not add level scaling. One of the things I love the most in Baldur's Gate, and that I miss the most in games like Elder Scrolls is the feeling that you actually grows more powerful. I want some areas to kill me in early-game while being laughably easy in late-game.

I would not make sense if you could get from candlekeep with no real training in combat and just like that solve iron crisis and take down the Iron Throne alone (or rather with five companions). Levels scaling would totally ruin the essence of Baldur's Gate. They should NOT implement it in any way, no matter how small.

At least, that is my opinion, feel free to disagree.