BG mods that are confusing me

sledgefang

Hello, I've been a fan of this game since it first came out in 1998. Since then I always kept it close to my heart and overlooked all the bugs the game had. I am extremely appreciative of all the hard work all of you have done to make this game even better than I remember. From reading the forums I have noticed that there were those that have actually created mods prior to this enhanced edition to attempt to fix bugs that I never new existed. I see now that there are bugs that were corrected for those mods like dudleyville, BGT, TuTu, ToBEx. Are those mods necessary now to play the enhanced edition or will the enhanced edition contail all the corrections those mods offered?

Lemernis

The game's existing bugs will be fixed. They're still stomping the new bugs have arisen from new code for the various platforms.

CamDawg

It's already in the BG2 engine, so BGT and Tutu won't be needed. The fixes from TobEx are being included. The fixes from Dudleyville--the actual fixes, not the inexplicable changes--will also be included.

sledgefang

Ah thank you very much. I appreciate the clarification. I cannot wait for this game to come out.

shawne

@CamDawg: Not entirely accurate - one of the things BGT does is merge BG1, BG2 and ToB into a single "game" (ie: stats and classes for the returning five NPCs are consistent throughout, etc.) I imagine that's still a feature that may interest some players...

mlnevese

I actually hope BG2 EE will detect the presence of an installation of BG EE and integrate itself to form a continuous game.

The fact that the modder that was responsible for BGT is actually working with Overhaul makes me very hopeful indeed.

CamDawg

shawne said:

@CamDawg: Not entirely accurate - one of the things BGT does is merge BG1, BG2 and ToB into a single "game" (ie: stats and classes for the returning five NPCs are consistent throughout, etc.) I imagine that's still a feature that may interest some players...

As one of the folks who wrote the original BGT installer I'm somewhat conversant with what BGT does.

There's currently no BG2EE with which to bridge BGEE, and BG2 and BGEE will be using different engines. Pedantically, 'BGT is not needed' is incorrect and should be replaced by 'it would be a phenomenally bad idea to use BGT on BGEE'.

mlnevese

@CamDawg Any idea if there are plans for a future BGT EE?

CamDawg

I guess that depends on whether the devs themselves want to have a merged game like you mention above. Otherwise, it would be a matter of bribing beggingpoking @Ascension64 often and repeatedly for BGTEE.

mlnevese

Hmmm wonder what would work better... bribing or begging... maybe begging AND bribing...

Roller12

BG:EE itself is just another version of bgt/tutu. With updated rules, what will actually happen is that people will import BG2 into BG:EE. Depending on how moddable and uniform with bg2 rules/creatures it will be, it could happen within the first month of release.

shawne

I think it all depends on what information BG2:EE imports will contain - originally, the only thing that was carried forward was your PC's stats and EXP, so good luck getting Imoen to stay a pure thief or keeping that extra point of wisdom for Viconia.

@CamDawg: Well, yes, I imagine stitching BG:EE and BG2 together would rather look like something out of a Mary Shelley novel.

sledgefang

But will BGEE and BGEE2 be compatible? Will BG2EE load the experience and stuff from BGEE?

Roller12

@shawne
>originally, the only thing that was carried forward was your PC's stats and EXP

If youre quick enough the mainchar can keep all his items from BG1.

AHF

sledgefang said:

But will BGEE and BGEE2 be compatible? Will BG2EE load the experience and stuff from BGEE?

I think that remains to be seen but I can't imagine why they wouldn't do that.

Lemernis

sledgefang said:

But will BGEE and BGEE2 be compatible? Will BG2EE load the experience and stuff from BGEE?

To take away a key feature that existed in the game would not be an enhancement. So I think there's zero chance that you won't be able to import your BG:EE PC into BG2:EE.

AHF

Lemernis said:

sledgefang said:

But will BGEE and BGEE2 be compatible? Will BG2EE load the experience and stuff from BGEE?

To take away a key feature that existed in the game would not be an enhancement. So I think there's zero chance that you won't be able to import your BG:EE PC into BG2:EE.

I think the question was more about NPC carryover (but I could be wrong) - i.e., if you learn spells with Edwin and get him X experience and give him the INT tome will those carryover to BG2:EE?

Roller12

@AHF
>and give him the INT tome will those carryover to BG2:EE?
Thats an interesting question actually.

BG1 Viconia has 15 Wis. There are 3 wis tomes in BG1. BG2 Viconia starts with 18 wis, which is 15+3. Coincidence?

Now because we are so much smarter than Bioware, we "fix" "inconsistent" stats by making bg1 Viconia start with 18, dump 3 tomes on her, "fix" the carryover transfer, and end up with 21 Wis Viconia out of nowhere. Easy peasy. Granted, not everyone uses Viconia ( a shame) but then again not everyone uses Jaheira as well and she still magically reappears as a friend.

cmorgan

If not, it will be much easier to mod a way of doing so. BGT is able to do it (or a form of it), so it should be possible, as BG:EE and BG2:EE will be the same engine.

Miloch

CamDawg said:

Dudleyville... included...

@CamDawg - you're either a more prolific post reader than I or privileged to a lot of inside information (most likely both) .

BGT:EE... what a concept. I predict that will be the 5-year-edition after both BG:EE and BG2:EE come out though. All I can say is I hope the original devs of BGT get a cut of that action .

CamDawg

Nah, it's more that the BG1 Fixpack fix list was used, which includes the actual fixes from Dudleyville int he same vein as using the BG2 Fixpack would include the Baldurdash fixes.

Miloch

Except that the BG1 Fixpack never got around to most of Dudleyville. It *did* get around to pretty much all of Baldurdash last I checked.

Folks kind of spurned Dudley, but I hope he makes it on the credits list if his stuff gets used, and it should. There were maybe a handful of fixes that were questionable (like in any fixpack) and one that didn't work (the Ulgoth's Beard link as I recall) but if that's the lot of the defects, that's pretty damn good in my book.

bigdogchris

Well since BG:EE and BG2:EE will use the exact same engine, and all bugfixes can be applied to both games, wouldn't it be incredibly easy to make a BGT:EE?

cmorgan

In one sense, yes. In another... possibly. At least from an un-modded install standpoint. The issues are likely to be

1. on the local install are both BG:EE and BG2:EE updated to the same level (relatively easy to do)
2. story-wise, how to bridge BG/TotSC into BG2 (in Tutu, it matches the "two independent games with an loosely-defined space of time" of the original releases, while BGT creates a return to Belt and somehow get kidnapped type of setup so the time is rather short.)
3. mods.
4. dialog.tlk differences

@Ascension64 had to create all sorts of wild things to get BGT to work, not the least of which is that all of the content of BG had to be ported, fixed, and recreated. But there were other considerations, like the existing mod-base of Tutu and BG2 mods, built for different engines and not necessarily (or easily) making the transition. With any luck, the difficulties faced here: http://www.shsforums.net/topic/31314-static-and-fluid-dialogue-states-in-bgt/page__view__findpost__p__371431 will be easier to deal with, and require less of a workaround.