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What makes BG:EE different from a modded version of the original?

rattmannrattmann Member Posts: 19
edited September 2012 in Archive (General Discussion)
I'm not trying to troll here or anything- I'm genuinely confused about the differences between this and a sufficiently modded version of the original. True, BG:EE may have numerous bugfixes, widescreen support, and additional NPCs (among many other things), but from what I've seen online, existing mods can do all of those things far more efficiently and for a lower cost. There's even a mod that lets you play the original games on the iPad and Android, so I'd really like to know what BG:EE can do that mods can't do. (I'm mostly focused on gameplay-related changes; cosmetic things like new cinematics and artwork are nice, but it's far from my biggest concern.)

Comments

  • StradlinStradlin Member Posts: 142
    edited September 2012
    Everything I've seen or heard about EE so far has indeed been pretty awesome. I have nothing but praise and exitenment in store for it. Having said that, I'd be surprised if "vanilla" EE would compare to a thoroughly modded original. Professional people with 1 year(?) worth of time and involved running costs to worry about Vs. some 14 years worth of hard work by a very respectable modding community... Latter prevails in love and manhours I wager. I think this is more or less the case with any and all games with dedicated modding community behind them. Try playing heavily modded Silent Hunter 3 for few weeks. (Stock game was released in 2004. Vanilla was and remains pretty literally unplayable. Few years later modding community had turned it into what is possibly best game in the world) Then give Silent Hunter 5 a spin( Released in 2010. Awesome graphics.) I quarantee, you will rage, vomit and when done vomiting get back to raging.

    ..Fortunatelly it truly isn't much of a Devs Vs. Modders type of a situation. In perfect world, most of the very good mods will be converted to EE eventually(Banter packs and suches.) I really, really hope conversion of existing mods will be easy, simple and fast.
  • Mods can never do the extensive level of bugfixes beamdog has been working on, not to mention the balancing and other issues they are addressing. Not to mention the game will be quicker, and there will be a zero load time between areas and such.
  • BrudeBrude Member Posts: 560
    Aside from updated graphics and new NPCs, I'm hoping hoping hoping that BGEE offers the original game with better encounters, PC balance, and difficulty scaling.

    The problem I have with most mods is that they significantly and arbitrarily alter the original game. Eg: Tutu removes items, gives some NPCs bizarre weapon profiencies, and quadruples or quintuples the size of random encounters.

    This is in addition to the BG2 engine itself, which was not designed with BG1 in mind at all.
  • rattmannrattmann Member Posts: 19
    Brude said:

    Aside from updated graphics and new NPCs, I'm hoping hoping hoping that BGEE offers the original game with better encounters, PC balance, and difficulty scaling.

    The problem I have with most mods is that they significantly and arbitrarily alter the original game. Eg: Tutu removes items, gives some NPCs bizarre weapon profiencies, and quadruples or quintuples the size of random encounters.

    This is in addition to the BG2 engine itself, which was not designed with BG1 in mind at all.

    True, but then why is Beamdog using the BG2 engine in spite of that? I know it's a modified form of the engine, but I'd still expect it to run into some of the same problems you just mentioned.

    And to be honest, I can't quite shake the feeling that Beamdog might be in over their heads and that making an enhanced edition might be a job better suited for veteran studios such as Obsidian. I'm desperately hoping that this is just rampant paranoia on my part, though- it would be awful if my fears were proven right.
  • What is in a name? While "beamdog" or "overhaul" might be new...Trent Oster is not. He is leading the team and a good many of the people working on this project worked on the original BG in 98 and prior.
  • StradlinStradlin Member Posts: 142
    edited September 2012
    Picking, choosing and installing mods is an art I says:p

    Begin modding BG I and you might end up with party NPC interaction that blows equivalent aspects of games like BG2, ME1, DA:O, DAII out of the water in quality and quantity both. This is pretty significant when you consider the rather short supply Vanilla delivers in this regard.

    Begin modding BG I and you might also end up in a dynsfunctional downward spiral of imbalanced +1000 composite long bow dropping boring mob packs, severe XP surplus, terrible combat and frequent game breaking crashes. All depending on which mods you end up picking.

    Forsooth, modding is hardly ever easy, convinient plug and play type of a joyride.(Tho it has to be said, settling with Tutu and 1-3 essentials is pretty much just that) One has to read em .txt files, do some detective work in various obscure forums, perform blood rites in alar of mod gods, tweak and adjust, adjust and tweak. Suffer headaches and waste time. Task worthy of spergy PC Master Race!;p

    Post edited by Stradlin on
  • rattmannrattmann Member Posts: 19
    @LordsDarkKnight185
    I don't doubt that for a second- what I'm concerned about is that even with veterans like Trent Oster, they might lack the funds and the resources to ensure that BG:EE will be able to become more than just a remake of the original. Experience isn't all that helpful when you've nearly run out of money and have to cut a feature you promised fans a few months earlier. Considering the status of the games, they'll become a laughingstock of the industry if BG:EE isn't nearly perfect in every respect.
  • BrudeBrude Member Posts: 560
    rattman said:

    True, but then why is Beamdog using the BG2 engine in spite of that? I know it's a modified form of the engine, but I'd still expect it to run into some of the same problems you just mentioned.

    They've already planned on the second game. From a developer point of view, this means working from a single code base. There's enormous advantages to doing that -- in short, it just makes your life a helluva lot easier.
  • Brude said:

    rattman said:

    True, but then why is Beamdog using the BG2 engine in spite of that? I know it's a modified form of the engine, but I'd still expect it to run into some of the same problems you just mentioned.

    They've already planned on the second game. From a developer point of view, this means working from a single code base. There's enormous advantages to doing that -- in short, it just makes your life a helluva lot easier.
    PLUS we will get bg2ee much quicker since they will have already worked out any bugs by then.
  • ArcalianArcalian Member Posts: 359
    No mod can give you these three specific NPCs and their side quests. Or the Black Pits, either. The NPCS are why I'm coming to the party, as it were.
  • Arcalian said:

    No mod can give you these three specific NPCs and their side quests. Or the Black Pits, either. The NPCS are why I'm coming to the party, as it were.

    Imoen and Neera, BFF's aww yeah? >.>
  • HoebaggerHoebagger Member Posts: 46
    edited September 2012
    For me:

    image
  • rattmannrattmann Member Posts: 19
    @Hoebagger
    What's the message, then? Now you've gotten me all curious.
  • AmardarialAmardarial Member Posts: 270
    Lets not forget that BG:EE will make Modding 100x easier, so all those mods you love, you will still have them plus 3 New fully voiced NPC's, their quests, and several new areas, again fully fleshed out and voiced, something VERY few mods can even do.

    Not to mention new items, spells, and the load of bug fixes, and did I mention, you still get all your mods, and probably a slew of new ones, giving how much easier they will be to make?
  • HoebaggerHoebagger Member Posts: 46
    @rattmann this shows that people are still interested in quality Infinity Engine RPGs. Every preorder and purchase of Baldur's Gate Enhanced Edition is one more reason for there to be a Baldur's Gate 3. I must also confess that I'm in it for the community as well. I've never been able to actually be a part of a good game as it was taking off and be a part of a good forum in its prime, but that opportunity is here now with this. I like the people here, I like the people that spend their time making a great game. I like the idea that the people developing this are actually talking with their fans and also with their modding community, it's an incredible statement. This is worth so much more than $20 to me, and I'm hoping that many others feel the same way here.
  • 11302101130210 Member Posts: 381
    Well, I *hope* it would at least be better than some mods that could outright present maybe new glitches. I mean if I could just mod the crap outta the game and get the same effect, than why wouldn't people just not pre-order the product? It's pretty obvious because I think the sales speak for themselves.
  • GemHoundGemHound Member Posts: 801
    edited September 2012
    look at it this way @rattman and @1130210:

    The way to get the development of 2D isometric D&D RPGs running again is by buying these two games Overhaul is making. As it is, the hardest part is already done, the legal struggle with Wizards of the Coast to just get a chance. If they reach their quota for sales on BG:EE and BG2:EE, we get to see more epicly complex games like Icewind Dale and Baldur's Gate come to life on our computers instead of Runescape and World of Warcraft clones.
  • ArcalianArcalian Member Posts: 359

    Arcalian said:

    No mod can give you these three specific NPCs and their side quests. Or the Black Pits, either. The NPCS are why I'm coming to the party, as it were.

    Imoen and Neera, BFF's aww yeah? >.>
    HELL YEAH!
  • LemernisLemernis Member, Moderator Posts: 4,318
    edited September 2012
    Repost from a similar thread:
    Lemernis said:

    No reason not to get both (GoG and EE), unless you're really counting your pennies.

    The main selling points of BG:EE:

    - existing game entirely bug-fixed
    - uses the ToB engine (implements dual-wielding, kits, BG2 spell selection)
    - hi-res graphics
    - zoom feature
    - new GUI
    - new cinematics
    - playable on PC, iPad, Android, and cross-platfom
    - fixed multiplayer
    - three new professionally crafted NPCs with quests and interactions with existing NPCs (Monk, Blackguard, and Wild Mage)
    - new Blackguard kit
    - new (additional) voice sets for PC
    - new (additional) PC portraits
    - new areas
    - 6 hour stand-alone adventure module, The Black Pits
    - DLCs of new content to be released regularly post-ship
    - when BG2:EE is released you'll need BG:EE to integrate them both into a single platform to play the entire Enhanced saga in one go
    - dev team working with modding community to support mods
    - a bonus feature yet to be announced
    - success of BG:EE and BG2:EE will make development of Baldur's Gate III possible

    And hopefully an official mod manager of some sort will be released as DLC in the near future.

    Main selling point of Baldur's Gate: The Original Saga and Baldur's Gate II Complete at gog.com:

    - classic versions
    - bargain bin price!
    - you can get them both now, whereas BG:EE is scheduled for release Nov. 30, '12 and BG2:EE some time next year
    - a plethora of mods currently available for the TuTu and BGT platforms (however most if not all will be eventually available for Beamdog's Enhanced Editions as well, just will take some time)

    So if you love playing the entire saga with lots of mods installed won't be able to do that with the Enhanced Editions until next year.

  • AmardarialAmardarial Member Posts: 270
    Lemernis said:

    Repost from a similar thread:

    Lemernis said:

    No reason not to get both (GoG and EE), unless you're really counting your pennies.

    The main selling points of BG:EE:

    - existing game entirely bug-fixed
    - uses the ToB engine (implements dual-wielding, kits, BG2 spell selection)
    - hi-res graphics
    - zoom feature
    - new GUI
    - new cinematics
    - playable on PC, iPad, Android, and cross-platfom
    - fixed multiplayer
    - three new professionally crafted NPCs with quests and interactions with existing NPCs (Monk, Blackguard, and Wild Mage)
    - new Blackguard kit
    - new (additional) voice sets for PC
    - new (additional) PC portraits
    - new areas
    - 6 hour stand-alone adventure module, The Black Pits
    - DLCs of new content to be released regularly post-ship
    - when BG2:EE is released you'll need BG:EE to integrate them both into a single platform to play the entire Enhanced saga in one go
    - dev team working with modding community to support mods
    - a bonus feature yet to be announced
    - success of BG:EE and BG2:EE will make development of Baldur's Gate III possible

    And hopefully an official mod manager of some sort will be released as DLC in the near future.

    Main selling point of Baldur's Gate: The Original Saga and Baldur's Gate II Complete at gog.com:

    - classic versions
    - bargain bin price!
    - you can get them both now, whereas BG:EE is scheduled for release Nov. 30, '12 and BG2:EE some time next year
    - a plethora of mods currently available for the TuTu and BGT platforms (however most if not all will be eventually available for Beamdog's Enhanced Editions as well, just will take some time)

    So if you love playing the entire saga with lots of mods installed won't be able to do that with the Enhanced Editions until next year.

    So So So So So much of this...
  • rattmannrattmann Member Posts: 19
    edited September 2012
    Thanks for the comments; I still have a few doubts, but I'm sure I can push them out of my mind until the game is released. Until then, there's not much I can do but cross my fingers and hope that BG:EE lives up to the hype.

    @GemHound
    But isn't Obsidian doing exactly the same thing with Project Eternity?
  • reedmilfamreedmilfam Member Posts: 2,808
    Maybe I'm not understanding the Black Pits. It looks like a series of fights in an arena to me, rather than an adventure - not even a blip on my radar screen showing things that interest me. Did I misunderstand something?
  • DeeDee Member Posts: 10,447
    There's a bit of a story to it, but the story takes place in an arena. It's probably not going to appeal to everyone, but there should be some worthwhile story to keep you interested if you do play it.
  • mlnevesemlnevese Member, Moderator Posts: 10,214
    @reedmilfam As far as i know that's what it is. Really not interested as well. I'm more curious about the legendary Adventure Y :)
  • elminsterelminster Member, Developer Posts: 16,316
    edited September 2012
    I just watched on youtube some guy try to play the game on an android. I have to say, maybe it was his tablet but it seemed to me like it was very laggy.
  • mlnevesemlnevese Member, Moderator Posts: 10,214
    @elminster If you watched it in youtube it's not the EE. Probably someone playing a GemRB game.
  • HertzHertz Member Posts: 109
    Baldur's Gate only runs with mods if you know about the mods. If you can find the right patch that works with the mods you want. And upgrade your mods to the latest model when new mods come out and break the mods you have. If you can load the mods in the correct order. If you're willing to sit through several full installs, several full uninstalls, and several mod unpackings, to make it all work. (Just google for "can't install Baldur's Gate" some time.) Even if you install it and get it running, it still has inexplicable bugs and crashes. Mods don't necessarily play nice together. And even if you can live with those bugs and workarounds, there are still things that you cannot mod around, period, full stop, because the code is hard-wired that way.

    BG:EE will chop away all of that DIY nonsense, and sell a package that actually runs. For the first time since Windows 95.
  • elminsterelminster Member, Developer Posts: 16,316
    edited September 2012
    @minevese yea I knew that. I probably should elaborated on my thinking. I was thinking that it was really lagging and as a result not the quality you would get from a game professionally redesigned (or at least reworked) to work on an android (like EE is). The vid I watched was also from like 2010, so obviously not of EE.
    Post edited by elminster on
  • Roller12Roller12 Member Posts: 437
    Not really having a difficulty with installing, but it seems there are some bugs which werent possible to fix with mods. Depending on their amount the value of the game will increase for me, although i realize that the majority is perfectly fine with vanilla game, short of maybe widescreen resolutions.
  • O_BruceO_Bruce Member Posts: 2,790
    One more difference from just modded game: few language version in one game. Audio content and subtitles/text is ought to be independent of each other, meaning you could have, for example, English audio and Polish subtitles.
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