Cis white male slowly playing through: my reactions, issues (w/spoilers)
laeknir
Member Posts: 58
I wanted to play immediately upon release, but work swamped me until yesterday. Still, I was a bit jarred by some of the reviews and reactions, accusations and responses I've seen online. So I thought I'd do my "as I go" slow playthrough report if anyone's interested. THIS WILL HAVE SPOILERS.
A few notes about me, in case it makes any difference. I'm in my mid-40s, white (cis) male, with a masters in clinical psychology. I'm a therapist and educator at a fairly large university. My politics are centrist, conservative about some things and liberal about others. I've been a fan of the Forgotten Realms ever since Greenwood did "Pages from the Mages" in Dragon Magazine decades ago, and I'm a big fan of the BG and IWD computer game series.
For this post, I've played through recovering the wardstone (like I said, going slow). So here we go:
Initially, I was excited about importing my character from BG1. The first area, and I have to say all the areas I've been in so far, have really excellent artwork and setting design. I was NOT fond of the MMO-style "achievement" quest-related popups, they just felt off and I couldn't click fast enough to get rid of them. The outlines around characters, the UI interfaces generally, to me they look pretty good. I really didn't like that my (full) bags and some items just disappeared entirely upon importing, and I hated the "your gold is gone" quest-ish stuff. Unlike the start of BG2, you haven't been kidnapped... why zap your bags and gold in this? Especially considering that there is no way to sell stuff easily during the first intro parts?
I started realizing that much of this Intro (in the city) was really more meant as a "get acquainted with the new system stuff" than real questing, and wondering why it wasn't kept more isolated and skippable. Suddenly, I can't easily travel to city locations other than exactly where I'm told to go, which felt extremely limiting.
And that's what I think is the main issue for me so far: this isn't just linear adventuring, it's completely on the rails adventuring. Honestly, if I wanted to get out of the city for a breather, wander around some BG1 areas or even just wander in random new areas of forest, I can't really do that. In BG1 and BG2, there is always the background linear goal~outcome. But neither one is so locked down to being on the rails that you can't explore.
BG2-ToB and the IWD series are similarly on the rails style adventuring. They're fun, and this is fun so far, but I can already tell that they'll be a lot less re-played than BG1 and BG2-SoA. Replayability without a huge feeling of repetitiveness when you do is, I think, a key feature of the old BG series. Anyway, moving on...
I really didn't like that all of your adventuring buddies just abandon you. Imoen, a pretty good thief, is taken out of play, which forced Safana on my first runthrough. I get the story reasons for cutting out Imoen, except that she's still kinda there prodding you. Why not have Imoen start with you (especially if she's in your import party), then have her go through some kind of character epiphany toward magery as a part of the Intro storyline? As it is, this just didn't feel like good writing.
Similarly, so far I really dislike the "new" Safana. Granted, in BG1 she's portrayed as a manipulative vamp (not a vampire, but a vamp). But she's a sort of fun and lighthearted vamp. Here, she's really irritating - she won't stop bugging me to give her shiny pretty things, and really she's be turned into kind of a jerk. The problem is, I can't get rid of her because thievery is nearly essential. Honestly, I was glad to be rid of her at the end of the Intro, but I ended up choosing her as what I thought was the best option for leaving the city. It didn't sit well, because she's too smarmy and not endearing at all.
Similarly, the lady captain Corwin is just... flat. Her interactions with her child, and later her telling me about her life, they just weren't interesting. Maybe I haven't experienced enough of her character yet, but her deadpan emotionality is really a put-off while playing. Still, I took her in as a party member because I needed a good-aligned fighter.
Minsc and Dynaheir were themselves, not much that I saw in the way of change there. I have a fondness for both of them from before, so this was a no-brainer to take them. But a big problem came up as I was preparing to leave the city: no really good cleric options IMO. So by the time I could, I picked up Glint. His character seems quite good so far, but will I really want to keep him if I have the option to take Jaheira or Branwen?
My impression of the various dungeons along the way to Boareskyr: they're okay. The art and setting is top-notch excellent. But they're also really linear and not terribly interesting. I do appreciate a couple of the "easter egg" things (like the Cyric takeover of the Bhaal temple), but there's a bit of a lore problem there. Cyric, at that particular time in the 2E era, wasn't specifically a god of madness or just murder - he took over the duties of all of the "dead three" (Bane, Bhaal and Myrkul). So what I assume was a far realm type of "madness" creature was a little jarring. Also, coming across a dragon this early, and handily defeating it, was kinda lame.
About the trans character: look, I'm all for inclusion in gaming, go for it. But have good writing when you do. This was hackneyed fanfic-level writing, a token just to have a token... no one is going to respect that (and frankly, real trans people generally say they dislike the character). Yes, Greenwood always has had LGBTQ characters in the Forgotten Realms, but typically their sexuality is a minor background note. In gaming, some of these are placed in specifically so they can be romance options, and that's great. But again, don't have a character just blab out their sexual preference: this is literally (so far as I can tell) the only character trait possessed by this character. It's not interesting or compelling.
I've been told that Corwin also eventually outs as a lesbian, if your main character is female. But I hear that the romance talk is painfully written and way too sudden. I haven't played a female main yet, but I don't doubt my friend who is doing that now. To be honest, these mainly feel like they're inserted not to advance any particular stories that could be positively explored but rather just as bland tokens as service to an agenda.
I want to re-iterate here that I am PRO-inclusion, and in real life I am a therapist who has worked with LGBTQ clients. But inserting bland token characters into games is not helpful and can, in fact, reinforce awful stereotypes, promote bigotry, and directly harm LGBTQ players who had hoped for something far better. If you don't know how to write an LGBTQ character extremely well, then it's better to leave it out rather than force in a one-note token character.
About Minsc and GamerGate. I haven't heard it yet, but apparently Minsc makes some reference to ethics in adventuring. I am not someone who followed GamerGate. In fact, I intentionally tried to ignore everything about it when I could. I've heard the line from someone's Youtube channel, and honestly... I probably would not have given it a second thought. I have yet to hear it in game. I can't really judge it, having kept myself away from GamerGate.
At this point I've retrieved the wardstone, haven't quite gotten to Boareskyr. I have to say, overall, the game is mechanically and visually really nice... but so many things about it are moderately disappointing. Even the first interaction with the villain (an aasimar) lacked emotional interest. Her crusade is causing damage to the communities her army passes through, yet people still love and adore her? Even on the surface, this doesn't make a whole lot of sense. And for that matter, who is it exactly that has been spreading rumors about my main character possibly being a Bhaalspawn? By the end of BG1, even Sarevok kept that fairly secret about himself - even with respect to his own minions. AFAIK, only his closest inner circle knew his parentage... and they all died by the main character's hand.
Anyway, that's all for now. I'm going to keep playing as time and my work schedule permits. If you'd like to see follow-ups from me, let me know and I'll continue to give my evolving impressions of the game. So far, though, I'd have to give it a six out of ten.
A few notes about me, in case it makes any difference. I'm in my mid-40s, white (cis) male, with a masters in clinical psychology. I'm a therapist and educator at a fairly large university. My politics are centrist, conservative about some things and liberal about others. I've been a fan of the Forgotten Realms ever since Greenwood did "Pages from the Mages" in Dragon Magazine decades ago, and I'm a big fan of the BG and IWD computer game series.
For this post, I've played through recovering the wardstone (like I said, going slow). So here we go:
Initially, I was excited about importing my character from BG1. The first area, and I have to say all the areas I've been in so far, have really excellent artwork and setting design. I was NOT fond of the MMO-style "achievement" quest-related popups, they just felt off and I couldn't click fast enough to get rid of them. The outlines around characters, the UI interfaces generally, to me they look pretty good. I really didn't like that my (full) bags and some items just disappeared entirely upon importing, and I hated the "your gold is gone" quest-ish stuff. Unlike the start of BG2, you haven't been kidnapped... why zap your bags and gold in this? Especially considering that there is no way to sell stuff easily during the first intro parts?
I started realizing that much of this Intro (in the city) was really more meant as a "get acquainted with the new system stuff" than real questing, and wondering why it wasn't kept more isolated and skippable. Suddenly, I can't easily travel to city locations other than exactly where I'm told to go, which felt extremely limiting.
And that's what I think is the main issue for me so far: this isn't just linear adventuring, it's completely on the rails adventuring. Honestly, if I wanted to get out of the city for a breather, wander around some BG1 areas or even just wander in random new areas of forest, I can't really do that. In BG1 and BG2, there is always the background linear goal~outcome. But neither one is so locked down to being on the rails that you can't explore.
BG2-ToB and the IWD series are similarly on the rails style adventuring. They're fun, and this is fun so far, but I can already tell that they'll be a lot less re-played than BG1 and BG2-SoA. Replayability without a huge feeling of repetitiveness when you do is, I think, a key feature of the old BG series. Anyway, moving on...
I really didn't like that all of your adventuring buddies just abandon you. Imoen, a pretty good thief, is taken out of play, which forced Safana on my first runthrough. I get the story reasons for cutting out Imoen, except that she's still kinda there prodding you. Why not have Imoen start with you (especially if she's in your import party), then have her go through some kind of character epiphany toward magery as a part of the Intro storyline? As it is, this just didn't feel like good writing.
Similarly, so far I really dislike the "new" Safana. Granted, in BG1 she's portrayed as a manipulative vamp (not a vampire, but a vamp). But she's a sort of fun and lighthearted vamp. Here, she's really irritating - she won't stop bugging me to give her shiny pretty things, and really she's be turned into kind of a jerk. The problem is, I can't get rid of her because thievery is nearly essential. Honestly, I was glad to be rid of her at the end of the Intro, but I ended up choosing her as what I thought was the best option for leaving the city. It didn't sit well, because she's too smarmy and not endearing at all.
Similarly, the lady captain Corwin is just... flat. Her interactions with her child, and later her telling me about her life, they just weren't interesting. Maybe I haven't experienced enough of her character yet, but her deadpan emotionality is really a put-off while playing. Still, I took her in as a party member because I needed a good-aligned fighter.
Minsc and Dynaheir were themselves, not much that I saw in the way of change there. I have a fondness for both of them from before, so this was a no-brainer to take them. But a big problem came up as I was preparing to leave the city: no really good cleric options IMO. So by the time I could, I picked up Glint. His character seems quite good so far, but will I really want to keep him if I have the option to take Jaheira or Branwen?
My impression of the various dungeons along the way to Boareskyr: they're okay. The art and setting is top-notch excellent. But they're also really linear and not terribly interesting. I do appreciate a couple of the "easter egg" things (like the Cyric takeover of the Bhaal temple), but there's a bit of a lore problem there. Cyric, at that particular time in the 2E era, wasn't specifically a god of madness or just murder - he took over the duties of all of the "dead three" (Bane, Bhaal and Myrkul). So what I assume was a far realm type of "madness" creature was a little jarring. Also, coming across a dragon this early, and handily defeating it, was kinda lame.
About the trans character: look, I'm all for inclusion in gaming, go for it. But have good writing when you do. This was hackneyed fanfic-level writing, a token just to have a token... no one is going to respect that (and frankly, real trans people generally say they dislike the character). Yes, Greenwood always has had LGBTQ characters in the Forgotten Realms, but typically their sexuality is a minor background note. In gaming, some of these are placed in specifically so they can be romance options, and that's great. But again, don't have a character just blab out their sexual preference: this is literally (so far as I can tell) the only character trait possessed by this character. It's not interesting or compelling.
I've been told that Corwin also eventually outs as a lesbian, if your main character is female. But I hear that the romance talk is painfully written and way too sudden. I haven't played a female main yet, but I don't doubt my friend who is doing that now. To be honest, these mainly feel like they're inserted not to advance any particular stories that could be positively explored but rather just as bland tokens as service to an agenda.
I want to re-iterate here that I am PRO-inclusion, and in real life I am a therapist who has worked with LGBTQ clients. But inserting bland token characters into games is not helpful and can, in fact, reinforce awful stereotypes, promote bigotry, and directly harm LGBTQ players who had hoped for something far better. If you don't know how to write an LGBTQ character extremely well, then it's better to leave it out rather than force in a one-note token character.
About Minsc and GamerGate. I haven't heard it yet, but apparently Minsc makes some reference to ethics in adventuring. I am not someone who followed GamerGate. In fact, I intentionally tried to ignore everything about it when I could. I've heard the line from someone's Youtube channel, and honestly... I probably would not have given it a second thought. I have yet to hear it in game. I can't really judge it, having kept myself away from GamerGate.
At this point I've retrieved the wardstone, haven't quite gotten to Boareskyr. I have to say, overall, the game is mechanically and visually really nice... but so many things about it are moderately disappointing. Even the first interaction with the villain (an aasimar) lacked emotional interest. Her crusade is causing damage to the communities her army passes through, yet people still love and adore her? Even on the surface, this doesn't make a whole lot of sense. And for that matter, who is it exactly that has been spreading rumors about my main character possibly being a Bhaalspawn? By the end of BG1, even Sarevok kept that fairly secret about himself - even with respect to his own minions. AFAIK, only his closest inner circle knew his parentage... and they all died by the main character's hand.
Anyway, that's all for now. I'm going to keep playing as time and my work schedule permits. If you'd like to see follow-ups from me, let me know and I'll continue to give my evolving impressions of the game. So far, though, I'd have to give it a six out of ten.
12
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Comments
"Maybe they are not all just bias threatened male white fat guys who love WWE. This enlightened professor also finds the new Safina a poor personality change maybe we should have kept her a clever coy Marlyn Monroe and not a fighting empowered Wymyn."
For me, it's much more about the people who inexplicably express their adoration (having never met her, and knowing nearly nothing about her cause or purpose). In the Intro, quite a lot of the Flaming Fist guards are ready to just dump a well-paying career. They're military, loyal to the city and their brothers-in-arms, and yet many of them will tell you that they're ready to just throw away a paying career to go join this person who they also know little-to-nothing about.
It made me wonder if the writers actually knew what the Flaming Fist was about. YMMV.
I doubt it's worth starting over again, but I thought it might be useful to know.
Thanks for a review that I found to be well-written and thoughtful. Uhmmm... nothing more than that to contribute, but thanks. I appreciate the time and effort you spent here to share your thoughts on the game.
"denoting or relating to a molecular structure in which two particular atoms or groups lie on the same side of a given plane in the molecule, in particular denoting an isomer in which substituents at opposite ends of a carbon–carbon double bond are on the same side of the bond."
If so, what an odd way to refer to oneself!
On topic, enjoy your game. I'll be sticking with PoE for the time being, and hopefully in the coming weeks and months SoD will have more well-reasoned reviews I can read. At the moment it seems to be a mob fight, and I have little desire to get involved.
Hello friend, I'm going to copy my explanation from another thread:
So if Latin it is, allow me to say for the explanation, gratias tibi.
Ceterum censeo Carthaginem esse delendam.
Umm... on topic, feebly -- Baldur's Gate Siege of Dragonspear!
Definitely worth a try, thanks.
One question though: once you finish the SoD Intro and your group "disbands"... do all of the items they've collected (items not on your main) get put into the chest, including the full bags?
I agree with you about Minsc and Dynaheir, who are perfect from what I've seen. Minsc is genuinely funny, and I love his quotes. Him explaining the muddier parts of adventuring to Corwin's daughter is now one of my favorite moments int he entire series. Dynaheir was also well done, and the voice acting is great here. They did the best job on capturing Imoen's "voice" in my opinion, the perfect balance between her having a childish, fun personality while also being highly intelligent.
I agree with you in that I also am not much of a fan of Safana's direction, as I feel she is too sarcastic in ways that aren't very "smooth". She's supposed to be manipulative (judging from her biography about the pirate ship) and, judging by her intelligence score, really adept at using her sexuality to control things. Being snarky and not really likable kind of undermines that.
I disagree about Corwin though, I think she is appropriately straightforward. She is believable as a career soldier/mercenary, and isn't supposed to be as colorful as, say, Edwin, Minsc or Tiax. I think every story needs a straight (wo)man, and she plays the serious type well. She does a good job as the Kivan, Valygar or Mazzy of this game.
Imoen, I think, is vastly improved from BG1 and feels much more like her BG2 presentation. So far, I think this is some of the best character writing / enhancement. Yeah, Safana just feels different and not in a good way. It's hard to describe, but there was a kind of playfulness to her previous efforts at manipulation. Now it feels more like she just really dislikes the main character and isn't trying to hide it. I can see that. At the same time, the lack of warmth (even a compatriot's warmth) is sort of off-putting. That said, I am still fairly early in the game and she may develop in ways I'm not expecting.
Well, i know only one (having read only a few books), but in that one, this was a fundamental part of the story and character development. I talk about Elminster.
In Realms fiction, authors (including Greenwood) have always had to keep things somewhat on the "down low" rather than just being plainly open about sexuality as is possible in 2016.
But in various personal communications, and on the Candlekeep website where he provides canon answers to various questions, Greenwood's been pretty open about talking about how sexuality is viewed.
Off the top of my head, I can think of a few LGBT characters - this is all IIRC, I could be wrong on some:
Dahlia in Salvatore's novels has had both male and female lovers.
Afafrenfrere in Salvatore's novels is a gay male monk.
Quite a few of the female drow in Salvatore novels have been implied to be bisexual.
Myrmeen Lhal is bisexual, though there's not much evidence in the fiction/books.
Yanseldara and Vaerana Hawklyn of Elversult are a lesbian couple but described as "consorts".
Lady Moonfire of Loudwater was implied to be bisexual.
In one of the recent 4E novels, a female Chosen of the goddess Sune was definitely bisexual (off-page).
Greenwood has confirmed that Alustriel was bisexual.
A lot of this has been "whitewashed" or kept on the "down low" as far as the original company (TSR) and even with WotC have been concerned. But it's there, in the Realms.