Now, as far as the crusade is concerned, at the point of the game where I am now it seems like the writers were intentionally vague about the details. There are still some problems, though. I imagine intelligence gathering is a lot more difficult in this kind of world, but I felt as though the leaders of Baldur's Gate (and the people, really) should at least have known about her basic purpose for conducting her raids. She tells you what her plans are when she first meets you, and you'd assume a great many of her supporters understand her goals, since it is the reason they are following her. It does seem odd how word somehow didn't get to Baldur's Gate in light of that fact, especially with so many refugees seeking shelter there.
What were they thinking? Why beamdog pandered to SJWs when SJWs don't play 20 year old clunky rpgs?
Hi. My name is Jarrakul. I'm an ardent feminist, as well as a proponent of racial justice and LGBT rights. I am, myself, bisexual. I'm a semi-regular on The Mary Sue's comment boards, I believe black lives matter, and I rather like Anita Sarkeesian's work on implicit gender politics in video games. I'm pretty sure I'm one of the folks you'd call an SJW. And here I am, with just about 1600 posts on the Baldur's Gate forums. Here I am, playing an 18 year old RPG, which, frankly, still manages to be less clunky than almost any modern RPG. Pretty much anyone I know could tell you I am absolutely nuts for Baldur's Gate. So what, exactly, was your argument again?
What were they thinking? Why beamdog pandered to SJWs when SJWs don't play 20 year old clunky rpgs?
Hi there. I'm a 56 year old gamer who has been playing BG since it came with a [very nice] paper manual and no Tales of the Sword Coast [i.e. day one].
I'm also a proud warrior for Social Justice, a Feminist, a Trans-rights supporter, a Multiculturalist, a Socialist and someone who happily uses the terminology that minority groups prefer be used in conversations with them.
Heck, I played D&D *before* there was an AD&D. So yeah, I am just as much a legitimate customer of BG-series games as any regressive, reactionary, anti-Human rights emo whiner. [not saying that that describes YOU personally, but I have seen some real pieces of work here and elsewhere over the last few days... man a few gamers really need a hug...]
So I'm a legitimate customer and a legitimate player and I'm quite happy to purchase and play a game that better reflects the design philosophy of the Forgotten Realms' original designer, Mr. Greenwood.
And, moreover, everyone else that I know personally, who plays BG-series games, thinks much as I do.
So perhaps your understanding of just who it is that plays BG-series games is not quite as accurate as you suppose.
Yeah, I don't think he's using the term to mean what you think it does. A game you might say was specifically targetted to "SJWS", though I dislike using that term as it just confuses, is Sunset. Which did very poorly in terms of sales and is possibly a reason he might say this game isn't being played by them.
Yeah, I don't think he's using the term to mean what you think it does. A game you might say was specifically targetted to "SJWS", though I dislike using that term as it just confuses, is Sunset. Which did very poorly in terms of sales and is possibly a reason he might say this game isn't being played by them.
Regardless, the game IS being played by people quite happy to wear the mantle of SJW with justifiable pride. Sure, some others might see the term as an insult or otherwise pejorative, but not all of us.
Wow I am proud of being a Crusader in the Gulf and a eater of raw horse, whale, boar, locusts, and other things. But, I has to say even though I was already a USMC hero first playin BG 1 when it just came out I am still more middle age minded than Thomas A. I feel there is hope for all human souls but I do regret so many are so wrong in such terrible and grievous ways. So, in that healthy sense of self I like to think I am better than others in my revealed wisdom as opposed to indoctrination with from dry arid doomed creature dwellers.
I hope in the future BG does not go so blatant lefty / trigger warning snappy finger fem supporting as this game and rather makes it old school when Elf girls were hot and Conan Fighters were super cool and did not get gruff girlz for their only girlfriend choices like Corwin.
In the future I want my fav Japanese Fighter Lady - Ko Ko - she is all about being a lady and is comfortable with violence too... in the game with a the real actors cool voice too:
If beamdog insists they should get this boy to lady to do the voice of the next transgender person in the game - has a cool brit accent... https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bcVw4ckwiU0
What were they thinking? Why beamdog pandered to SJWs when SJWs don't play 20 year old clunky rpgs?
Hi. My name is Jarrakul. I'm an ardent feminist, as well as a proponent of racial justice and LGBT rights. I am, myself, bisexual. I'm a semi-regular on The Mary Sue's comment boards, I believe black lives matter, and I rather like Anita Sarkeesian's work on implicit gender politics in video games. I'm pretty sure I'm one of the folks you'd call an SJW. And here I am, with just about 1600 posts on the Baldur's Gate forums. Here I am, playing an 18 year old RPG, which, frankly, still manages to be less clunky than almost any modern RPG. Pretty much anyone I know could tell you I am absolutely nuts for Baldur's Gate. So what, exactly, was your argument again?
Yeah, I'm a feminist and an LGBT activist, and I am down with all these things you said as well, and I played my first Infinity Engine game in 1998. I have purchased both Baldur's Gate games and Icewind Dale three times (on CD, on GOG, and EE versions), and Planescape: Torment and Icewind Dale 2 twice each. Heck, I own my fair share of Forgotten Realms AD&D and D&D products.
This weird false dichotomy where you only get to be a fan if you're not concerned with social justice is terrible.
I first saw it among actual social justice types on livejournal who didn't like the approach taken by social justice types on tumblr. I didn't see it outside of that context until gamergate.
@BelleSorciere "This weird false dichotomy where you only get to be a fan if you're not concerned with social justice is terrible. "
I don't too many people are saying that. I think the issue is really whether art (taking that term in its broadest sense) should be subservient to politics (so it should convey a message even if that makes it artificial, inconsistent or ridiculous) or politics subservient to art - so that if you want to convey a political message you do it by showing, not an overt telling. Beamdog appear to have indicated that they are of the former view.
@BelleSorciere "This weird false dichotomy where you only get to be a fan if you're not concerned with social justice is terrible. "
I don't too many people are saying that. I think the issue is really whether art (taking that term in its broadest sense) should be subservient to politics (so it should convey a message even if that makes it artificial, inconsistent or ridiculous) or politics subservient to art - so that if you want to convey a political message you do it by showing, not an overt telling. Beamdog appear to have indicated that they are of the former view.
No, it was the one person who said the quoted bit. I have seen a few other people establish a false dichotomy of "real Baldur's Gate fans vs. SJWs*", so a handful.
As far as art incorporating politics, back in the real world, it often does.
As far as the message being artificial, inconsistent, or ridiculous, I think that's more a matter of of pebkac than necessarily a problem with the writing in the game itself. If someone is biased against, for example, transgender people, they're probably more likely to view the inclusion of transgender people as being artificial, inconsistent, or ridiculous, whereas for someone who does not carry that kind of bias, she might be just another character. That's an example, not a definitive listing of every problem people have explicated.
All great art is sending some kind of message. Whether an exclamation of the beauty of nature, the futility of struggle in a cruel world or that Carthage should be destroyed.
I had heard about the neg. plane protection for Khalid... but in my game, the magic boulder ends up killing about 5 NPCs (including Khalid and Neera). I don't have the resources for casting multiple protections unless I console in some scrolls (which I might eventually do), so I've kinda put that group on hold for a while until the bug gets sorted out.
You can talk to Neera and send her straight to the camp.
offtopic: 2 or 3 years ago when I first googled it I thought some americans identify themself as Eastern Europeans or having Eastern European ancestry... CIS - СНГ: Содружество независимых Государств - Commonwealth of Independent States - ex-Soviet Union. (I guess this was the first or second line in Google back then) Everytime I heard this I was like: "Russians!"
The original poster has requested that this thread be closed.
Folks, keep your personal grievanaces and arguments out of the general discussions. This thread was supposed to catalogue @laeknir's playthrough of the game, and instead it degenerated into bickering. That's definitely not what I would call "being excellent to each other".
Comments
I'm also a proud warrior for Social Justice, a Feminist, a Trans-rights supporter, a Multiculturalist, a Socialist and someone who happily uses the terminology that minority groups prefer be used in conversations with them.
Heck, I played D&D *before* there was an AD&D. So yeah, I am just as much a legitimate customer of BG-series games as any regressive, reactionary, anti-Human rights emo whiner. [not saying that that describes YOU personally, but I have seen some real pieces of work here and elsewhere over the last few days... man a few gamers really need a hug...]
So I'm a legitimate customer and a legitimate player and I'm quite happy to purchase and play a game that better reflects the design philosophy of the Forgotten Realms' original designer, Mr. Greenwood.
And, moreover, everyone else that I know personally, who plays BG-series games, thinks much as I do.
So perhaps your understanding of just who it is that plays BG-series games is not quite as accurate as you suppose.
I hope in the future BG does not go so blatant lefty / trigger warning snappy finger fem supporting as this game and rather makes it old school when Elf girls were hot and Conan Fighters were super cool and did not get gruff girlz for their only girlfriend choices like Corwin.
In the future I want my fav Japanese Fighter Lady - Ko Ko - she is all about being a lady and is comfortable with violence too... in the game with a the real actors cool voice too:
If beamdog insists they should get this boy to lady to do the voice of the next transgender person in the game - has a cool brit accent...
This weird false dichotomy where you only get to be a fan if you're not concerned with social justice is terrible.
I don't too many people are saying that.
I think the issue is really whether art (taking that term in its broadest sense) should be subservient to politics (so it should convey a message even if that makes it artificial, inconsistent or ridiculous) or politics subservient to art - so that if you want to convey a political message you do it by showing, not an overt telling.
Beamdog appear to have indicated that they are of the former view.
As far as art incorporating politics, back in the real world, it often does.
As far as the message being artificial, inconsistent, or ridiculous, I think that's more a matter of of pebkac than necessarily a problem with the writing in the game itself. If someone is biased against, for example, transgender people, they're probably more likely to view the inclusion of transgender people as being artificial, inconsistent, or ridiculous, whereas for someone who does not carry that kind of bias, she might be just another character. That's an example, not a definitive listing of every problem people have explicated.
* I am a social justice sorciere.
It's easy to get drawn into the same big flailing blob of a conversation even when reading multiple threads because yeah.
2 or 3 years ago when I first googled it I thought some americans identify themself as Eastern Europeans or having Eastern European ancestry...
CIS - СНГ: Содружество независимых Государств - Commonwealth of Independent States - ex-Soviet Union. (I guess this was the first or second line in Google back then)
Everytime I heard this I was like: "Russians!"
the irony
Folks, keep your personal grievanaces and arguments out of the general discussions. This thread was supposed to catalogue @laeknir's playthrough of the game, and instead it degenerated into bickering. That's definitely not what I would call "being excellent to each other".