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Imoen (Spoilers)

Is it true? Imoen can't join your party?

I can't play Baldur's Gate without Imoen in my party.

In fact I'm not sure you should even call a game Baldur's Gate if Imoen can't join your party.

Camus34Mush_MushbooinyoureyeskillerrabbitTenrecc
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Comments

  • Diogenes42Diogenes42 Member Posts: 597
    I'm sorry to inform you that it is true my friend.

    Permidion_StarkDaevelon
  • Permidion_StarkPermidion_Stark Member Posts: 4,081
    Well, that's me depressed.

    Chiren
  • Diogenes42Diogenes42 Member Posts: 597
    She's still shows up in the game and talks to you if that helps but she's busy doing her own thing.

  • EscarcheEscarche Member Posts: 60
    She still playes an important role.

    SpaceInvader
  • Permidion_StarkPermidion_Stark Member Posts: 4,081

    She's still shows up in the game and talks to you if that helps but she's busy doing her own thing.

    That just makes it worse. It was bad enough in Baldur's Gate 2 when she got taken away for half the game but at least you got her back. If she's there and she won't join up with you it just adds insult to injury.

    Chiren
  • Diogenes42Diogenes42 Member Posts: 597

    She's still shows up in the game and talks to you if that helps but she's busy doing her own thing.

    That just makes it worse. It was bad enough in Baldur's Gate 2 when she got taken away for half the game but at least you got her back. If she's there and she won't join up with you it just adds insult to injury.
    Sorry to be the bearer of bad news friend. I'll tell you the situation in spoilers if that helps ease things.

    Imoen doesn't come with you because she's training to be a mage under Liia Jannath. So while it may be a let down not to have her in the party, she's just getting ready to be the powerful mage we know and love from BG2 and ToB.

  • Permidion_StarkPermidion_Stark Member Posts: 4,081
    Thanks Diogenes but I suspect nothing you can tell me is going to make me happy about this. If she is going to train to be a mage why can't she do it in my party? Everyone else can Dual-Class and then learn on the job. If Imoen informed me at the start of SoD that she had decided to Dual-Class I would be fine with that. I don't see why she has to go to mage school to do it.

  • Diogenes42Diogenes42 Member Posts: 597
    edited April 2016
    Siege of Dragonspear is a bit more full on in terms of combat generally. It could get annoying having to babysit a low level mage throughout the adventure.

  • nysinysi Member Posts: 31
    I was disappointed like you at first by not being able to play with her.. But then while playing, I realized it allowed me to try the other character without having the feeling of abandonning her. It was her choice.
    Now, if you really need it, you can cheat and use CTRL+Q on her to add her to the party, or mod it.

    FrancoisbooinyoureyesMidoritypo_tilly
  • Permidion_StarkPermidion_Stark Member Posts: 4,081
    edited April 2016

    Siege of Dragonspear is a bit more full on in terms of combat generally. It could get annoying having to babysit a low level mage throughout the adventure.

    Yes, but you could choose to do it or not to do it. I personally would have no problem baby sitting Imoen (hell, I always get out of Irenicus's dungeon without resting so she doesn't get bad dreams). Anyone who didn't want to babysit her could leave her out of their party (at which point she could have had an exit line that said something along the lines of: "Fair enough, I wanted to spend some time learning some mage stuff anyway. I'll see you when you've finished being the big hero.")

    SoD is supposed to provide a link between the end of BG1 and the start of BG2 but I can't see any reason why this meant they had to make Imoen an non-joinable NPC.

    DJKajuru
  • DJKajuruDJKajuru Member Posts: 2,973
    I understand how you feel @Permidion_Stark , as I'm also deeply attached to Imoen. In fact, I always dual her at level 7 and she usually regains her thief skills before I end Durlag's Tower. In my game she would be at her prime by the time we reached Dragonspear.

    Permidion_Stark
  • KhalDrogoKhalDrogo Member Posts: 60
    Roll eyes

    The reason they had to make Imoen an non-joinable NPC is a good decision. Think about it, in term of Role-Playing you cannot learn magic overnight. The study of Magic Art needs time. Time you don't have in Siege of Dragonspear, because you need to stop Caelar Argent and her crusade.

    Imoen chose herself to learn magic because she doesn't want to be a burden for the main character, and want to help her/him better than before. And for that even if she wants to come to help, she decides to stay with the Grand Duchess Liia Jannath to learn magic. Magic needs focus, and in Baldur's Gate, Imoen is far for that, her studies with her mentor give her that FOCUS. This is why in BG2 Imoen is far more will strong than before.

    So get over it, it's not a big deal.

    SpaceInvader
  • Permidion_StarkPermidion_Stark Member Posts: 4,081
    edited April 2016
    Rolls eyes right back at you.

    In the world of Baldur's Gate you can learn magic very quickly. It may not make a lot of sense but everyone can do it. No one else has to go and study, you just Dual Class and away you go.

    You can start out as a first level mage in Candlekeep and shoot up levels without ever stopping to read a book or even talk to another magic user. Again it doesn't make much sense but that is the world of the game.

    The point is that Imoen is one of the principal characters in Baldur's Gate and to remove her from the party when she could just as easily have been left in strikes me as a perverse decision.

    Not getting over it and it is a big deal.

  • FrancoisFrancois Member Posts: 452
    edited April 2016

    In the world of Baldur's Gate you can learn magic very quickly. It may not make a lot of sense but everyone can do it. No one else has to go and study, you just Dual Class and away you go.

    There's another reason:

    There is an assassination attempt and she is recovering from a poison when you leave. Although it can still be argued that we've all been poisoned before and we just drink a potion. If it was me I would have left her uncounscious when we leave to make it more believable

  • the_sexteinthe_sextein Member Posts: 622
    edited April 2016
    The only problem this causes me is that I feel like I shouldn't dual class her in BG now. I don't feel she is all that useful without her magic abilities and I don't want to get rid of her because it's Imoen. If I dual class her in BG and then she stays back to learn magic in SOD it doesn't make much sense, especially if she starts BG2 no different then when I left her in BG.

    As a thief she can add some utility and long range support with a bow but as a mage she adds the perfect magical balance my party needs. I have come to terms with it though. I will probably just tough it out and keep her as a thief on my first trilogy run. This will make things more challenging for me for sure. I wanted the dev team to address the issue of Imoen learning spells so that it would make sense if you didn't dual her but I was hoping it could be done in a way that wouldn't interfere with her logical progression if she did dual class already. Still, it's not too big of a deal for me.

  • Permidion_StarkPermidion_Stark Member Posts: 4,081
    Francois said:

    In the world of Baldur's Gate you can learn magic very quickly. It may not make a lot of sense but everyone can do it. No one else has to go and study, you just Dual Class and away you go.

    There's another reason:

    There is an assassination attempt and she is recovering from a poison when you leave. Although it can still be argued that we've all been poisoned before and we just drink a potion. If it was me I would have left her uncounscious when we leave to make it more believable
    That's just a plot device to remove her from the party. The point I am trying to make is that I can't see any reason she has to be removed from the party in the first place.

    The people who use Imoen in BG1 will either have kept her as a thief or already dualled her to a mage. Obviously, there is no way to cover both these possibilities so it seems to me the sensible thing to have done would be to start SoD with her as a thief but have her announce that she is going to dual to a mage. That way you could play through the game with her in your party from BG1 to ToB and keep a reasonably consistent through line for her character.

    DJKajuruCamus34
  • FrancoisFrancois Member Posts: 452
    I haven't finished the game, so I don't know if she serves some other important purpose in the game. Maybe it's also intended to make sure she is alive at the end of the SoD. To be fair, she is also unavailable for half of BG2 so it's not the first time we lose her.

    Krotos
  • Permidion_StarkPermidion_Stark Member Posts: 4,081
    It can't be to make sure she is alive, after all she might have died in the first encounter with a wolf in BG1 and never been in your party since. I once even managed to get her killed while we were still in Candlekeep. I attempted to pickpocket Gorion to see if he had anything interesting. I failed, he turned hostile and threw a lightning bolt at me, which not only toasted me but took Imoen out as well (if you ask me that guy has got serious anger management issues and is totally unsuitable as a foster parent).

    And just because she is unavailable for half of BG2 I don't see why she should be unavailable for the whole of SoD.

  • ber5nie5ber5nie5 Member Posts: 258
    i agree permidion.

    instead of deciding for us, they should have allowed us to make the decision as to whether or not we wanted her in our party.

    not a big issue for me, but obviously a big issue for you. and it could easily have been avoided. i say give us as many choices as possible. for me, i really wanted jaheira to be my healer, but she wasn't available until very late in the game so i reluctantly passed on adding her to my party since i'd already spent alot of time and exp developing other chars.

    Permidion_Stark
  • RaltarRaltar Member Posts: 33
    The whole Imoen...thing was handled very poorly. They should have just let us use her. They introduced enough plot holes to BG2. Not explaining why she had magic in BG2 wouldn't have been a big deal. Instead, I'm forced to use characters I didn't like. I eventually just said fuck it and went without a thief and used knock to unlock doors and CTRL+J to get past traps.

    Permidion_StarkCamus34
  • Camus34Camus34 Member Posts: 203
    I'm pretty sure this was done on purpose, so you would be more likley to try one of the new characters. *disgusted groan*

  • Camus34Camus34 Member Posts: 203
    Francois said:

    To be fair, she is also unavailable for half of BG2 so it's not the first time we lose her.

    Not if you raise the money early and go and get Imoen right away... Something that a lot of people do.

    Permidion_Stark
  • Permidion_StarkPermidion_Stark Member Posts: 4,081
    Camus34 said:

    Francois said:

    To be fair, she is also unavailable for half of BG2 so it's not the first time we lose her.

    Not if you raise the money early and go and get Imoen right away... Something that a lot of people do.

    I always get the money as quickly as I can. Nothing else makes sense to me in role playing terms. She's my sister and I'm not going to leave her to rot in Spellhold.

    On the downside, it does usually mean I get killed before I get there (and since I always play no reloads it means she never escapes).

    PhilhelmZaferick
  • SeveronSeveron Member Posts: 214
    I'm pretty sure they removed Imoen so that players were almost conceded into having to have Safana in your party so that they could show off just how much a personality "upgrade" she got. At least that's my theory.

    FoggyCamus34
  • PurudayaPurudaya Member Posts: 816
    edited April 2016
    They had to explain the default party at the beginning of BGII. SoD spends time emphasizing Imoen's friendship with/care for you - at the end, this is her motivation for getting the gang back together and

    helping you escape Baldur's Gate.


    If she is a joinable character, then she can die and be unable to fill this role. From a narrative perspective, Beamdog would have also had to write separate content for her if you decided *not* to have her in the party, which would have complicated things considerably. They needed a character that would unconditionally do (and be alive to do) what she does at the end of the game - Imoen was the most logical choice. Actually, I think it enriches your relationship going into BGII and makes her kidnapping (and your drive to rescue her) all the more fitting.

    She is one of my favorite characters in the whole saga, but SoD is just a brief interlude - I treat it like the first part of BGII.

    illathidtypo_tilly
  • GhavGrimGhavGrim Member Posts: 35
    I think they missed a trick here. Nostalgia is a big part of this game's appeal and playing a party with Imoen is a big part of that BG1 nostalgia.

    The only time I didnt speed run BG2 to rescue her was the first time, when I put all that time and XP into Yoshimo.

    I won't complain about how that turned out, fair play, good plot, but I didn't make the same mistake again twice either.

    Permidion_StarkCamus34
  • ZoimosZoimos Member Posts: 81
    I thought she was lefted out for some sort of plot for the end but was disappointed to learn there wasn't really a good reason for her not joining me

    I thought it was a bad decision to leave her out, she was already a mage by the end of bg1 for me and I would guess most people dual her too. Could of made her auto dual class at the start and have her explain why she choose to start learning magic at the start.

    Didn't really like Safana or Glint so really wanted a alternative for thieving :(

    Permidion_StarkCamus34
  • pwaringpwaring Member Posts: 76
    I was disappointed that Imoen didn't join my party, though I could see the story reasons for her not doing so. I would have been happier if she had turned up just before the final chapter, as I can't imagine her leaving the protagonist for anything more than the absolute minimum amount of time. This could have allowed her to bust herself and the main character out of jail. :)

    Lore
  • Camus34Camus34 Member Posts: 203
    edited April 2016
    Ugh, I can't stand Safana and Glint, I'm tempted to simply forgo using a thief and just CTRL J everywhere. One of my major problems with this expansion is the forced writing, makes me way more likley to cheat lol. Imoen written out means not having a proper thief which means ctrl J. The treasurer betting my money (how does that make any sense?) means I get preached to (about why I can't have my 200000 gold) by thieving refugees who beat said treasure nearly to death, so I arrest them, then open up the console and give myself 200000 gold lol.

  • KhalDrogoKhalDrogo Member Posts: 60
    @Camus34

    In the end of Baldur's Gate Enhanced Edition I got 250 000 Gold
    In the end of Siege of Dragonspear I got the same amount
    Right now in Baldur's Gate 2 Enhanced Edition I have 0 gold, because I'm beginning the game with Caelar voice and portrait for my female Paladin.

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