Wild Mages... How do they work? With added discourse concerning dice...

Anduin

I am not a noob... But I have never played a Wild Mage. I have played through as a Ranger, Necromancer, Theif and Cleric (Before you ask I usually play BG first before exporting the character into BG2, so no kits, and no Wild Mage! I play BGT quite a bit but have never completed due to some bug and an urge to start again, always played F/M/T due to so much xp)

I have recklessly wiped (a wild mage trait?) my hardrive of everything BG (apart from my mods I have downloaded in mostly 7z form) in prep to start playing BG:EE so at present I cannot test! (Although I'm itchin to place my CD's back in the drive...) I know, stoooopid.

Anyway... I need a wild mage expert to guide me.

I know they get an extra spell slot like specialists...

They get access to certian wild mage only spells... Chaos Shield?

But that's it. Neera is going to be a wild mage npc, interest in wild mages is going to rocket, thus this thread. Anyone out there want to enlighten me?

EDIT: Wild mages use a D100, to ascertain the effects of a wild surge. It was only natural for discussion to move onto dice.

sandmanCCL

Every spell also rolls a d20 to determine if it's successfully cast or not. (Or maybe a percentage dice but either way it's the same results). A critical failure, or a roll of 1, means it moves to the wild surge table. This roll is handled by the game engine and not displayed to the player to the best of my knowledge.

Here is a list of all wild surge effects.

They get as a 1st level spell "Nahal's Reckless Dweomer" which attempts to cast any spell you select out of your known spells but it always triggers a wild surge and therefore is exceptionally unreliable.

The other two Wild Mage spells, Chaos Shield and Improved Chaos Shield, add 15 and 25 to any wild surge roll made, which simply means your chance of actually casting the spell normally increases.

Jalily

I'm not an expert, but here goes.

The most common effect you'll see, apart from the extra spell slot, is that a Wild Mage's caster level varies slightly between each spell. It can be anywhere from 5 below to 5 above your actual mage level. It's random (of course).

Each time a Wild Mage casts a spell, there's a 5% chance of a surge, i.e. you'll get a random effect instead of what you intended. See this chart: http://www.planetbaldursgate.com/bg2/character/classes/tables/wildsurge.shtml Note that a surge can (rarely) result in your spell being cast anyway, which is important for the next part.

The Wild Mage spells are Chaos Shield, Improved Chaos Shield, and Nahal's Reckless Dweomer. The first two increase your chances of getting a good effect if a surge happens while they're active. Nahal's Reckless Dweomer lets you attempt to cast any spell you know by inducing a wild surge. In other words, you'll cast your chosen spell as if you had memorized it, but a surge will always happen and you'd better hope your roll is good! This has the potential to be incredibly overpowered for exploit-y reasons I won't get into now.

Edit: Ninja'd!

Brude

It helps of you think of the first level Dweomer as a 'wild card' spell that can stand in for any spell in your spell book, whether it is currently memorized or you can legitimately cast it t that level.

Wild Mages also get a bonus spell per level, as with specialist mages.

elminster

The other thing about wild surges is that I believe your level is added to the number in question if you are using the Dwoemer and have one of the chaos shields active. So at higher levels it means the likelihood of something going bad is reduced.

Jalily

@elminster You don't need to have a Chaos Shield active, but yes.

elminster

@Jalily Yep just checked you are correct.

Lemernis

I've just been reviewing the wild surge table and by my count roughly a third of the outcomes are clearly beneficial in combat, even if not what was intended. Roughly one third have no direct negative effect in battle, but the desired spell is replaced with something else. And about one third have decidedly bad outcomes in battle. Perhaps only one fourth are really bad.

There's a 1 in 20 chance of a surge happening to begin with. So there's about a one and half percent chance of something dreadfully wrong resulting when a Wild Mage casts a spell. And about the same odds that something beneficial (for combat) will occur.

Another way of looking at this is the there's about a 3 percent chance that the spell will be a dud or disaster. And by the way, some of those "duds" are actually good (eg, caster gets gems)--they're just not directly helpful in battle.

Anduin

@SandmanCCL @Jalily @Lemernis @elminster @Brude

Thank you so much for the input! Most definately going to play a Wildmage! Was leaning to a T / M... But now... (I know Neera will be a wildmage too but what the hey)

Couple of questions. If Nahals Reckless Dweomer is a lvl 1 and you learnt a lvl 7 spell somehow, but your only a lvl 3. Can you use Nahals Reckless Dweomer to cast it?

Do Chaos Shields stack? and is their any other way to boost your wild surge roll? (Also do they, chaos shields, prevent it or just improve the wild surge roll?)

sandmanCCL

It just improves the wild surge roll.

And I'm not sure about your reckless dweomer question! I'll get around to testing it out with hax n such later today.

Brude

Anduin said:

If Nahals Reckless Dweomer is a lvl 1 and you learnt a lvl 7 spell somehow, but your only a lvl 3. Can you use Nahals Reckless Dweomer to cast it?

Almost positive this is how it works -- ie, if you have a spell in your spell book but are too low level to cast it (say, fireball at level 1), then Dweomer will let you do it.

I'll test and let you know. (BRB to put some wild magey smackdown on Candlekeep).

Lemernis

@Anduin, if you are playing a Tutu or BGT game, I would also highly, highly recommend to you the excellent Wild Mage Additions Mod.

Brude

Haha, okay I just did it.

Level 1 Wild Mage with the level 8 spell "Summon Fiend" in my spellbook. Dweomer lets me cast it no problem (I got lucky with the surge, too -- first I was hasted, the next time I got sparkles).

So yeah, it works if you find high level scrolls and scribe them to your book.

Edit: Just to clarify, I've tried four times now with high level spells and each time I get a funny surge effect but the spell does not come off. The fiend never appeared.

This probably has to do with my level 1 status, but as far as game mechanics go it does in fact "work" in game.

Edit2: Okay, scribing scrolls got me to level 4. I just successfully cast the level 6 Polymorph: Self and changed into a Flind while standing in the Candlekeep Inn. :-D

Edit3: Okay, fiend has been summoned. My good friend Glabrezu just 2-shot Firebead before he could get any spells off.

Edit4: Wow, it turns out Gorion has well over 100 HP. Took Glabrezu a half dozen hits to kill him.

HeroicSpur

Anyone think the specific wild mage spells (e.g. chaos shield) should be special abilities instead?

Anduin

@Brude It's official! Wild mages more powerful than Gorion! Okay so Reckless works on spells you may not cast yet due to lvl, but learnt. Will be honest couldn't wait so loaded up Bg2 un modded. May have to widescreen mod it though... Playing a wild mage. Lack of surges at present on normal spells. My uses of reckless however has caused lots of randomness In fact I have actually not managed a successful cast!

Dee

@sandmanCCL Just a quick clarification for your guide: the 17% effect doesn't destroy all the party's gold--just a portion of it. Thanks to @Avenger_teambg for bringing that up elsewhere.

The new manual will be clearer on this point.

fighter_mage_thief

McDonald's
edit: oops, I thought you asked 'Where do they work?'

bbear

So do Chaos Shield and Improve Chaos shield stack, or multiples of those spells stack?

Dee

They don't stack. The way they currently work, the older effect prevents the newer effect from taking hold--so if you've got Chaos Shield affecting you, Improved Chaos Shield will do nothing.

Anduin

@Aosaw That's the kind of info you should know! However, I think it is kind of useless until you think that d100 roll + 45 pushes you towards a succesful cast from dweomers and the odd occasion you get a wild surge.

sandmanCCL

Aosaw said:

@sandmanCCL Just a quick clarification for your guide: the 17% effect doesn't destroy all the party's gold--just a portion of it. Thanks to @Avenger_teambg for bringing that up elsewhere.

The new manual will be clearer on this point.

I copied it out of the ToB manual.

Yay for more manual failure!

Dee

I hate to say it, but you copied it wrong.

The ToB manual says "Gold on caster is destroyed". Which is a horrendously vague wording, and the reason why I'm fixing it for the new manual.

sandmanCCL

@Aosaw: Do you know if what the roll of 95 does if the target is a party member? I probably cast more spells on my own guys than I do against enemies. Or, at least targeted abilities.

Dee

I would guess that the effect is the same (20%). I don't have a reliable way to test it, though, sadly.

SirHables

Be afraid of Wild Mages. Be very afraid.

Oxford_Guy

Jalily said:

@elminster You don't need to have a Chaos Shield active, but yes.

@Jalily - Does the Wild Mages level only get added to the surge table if casting "Nahal's Reckless Dweomer" or for *any* Wild Surge roll?

BTW the other unique thing about Wild Mages is that they're the only specialist mage class to gain an extra spell per spell level, but not to have any restrictions on which spell schools they can cast from

Jalily

Oxford_Guy said:

@Jalily - Does the Wild Mages level only get added to the surge table if casting "Nahal's Reckless Dweomer" or for *any* Wild Surge roll?

Should be Nahal's only. The justification for adding the level is that the mage can plan for the surge.

Lemernis

Does anyone know the percentage of success to shape the chosen spell that is scripted for Nahal's? Is it dependent on the level of the spell the caster is aiming for? (I would imagine that the higher the spell level the Wild Mage is hoping to 'shape', the lower the odds of success are.) And what is the actual percentage that those odds will then be improved by when using either Chaos Shield or Improved Chaos Shield? The actual (percentage) numbers, I mean.

Jalily

No, it's not dependent on the spell level. The "spell cast normally" outcome is #100 out of 100 possible outcomes. Scores above 100 are treated as 100, so any bonuses you get increase your chances of hitting it by the same amount in percentage points. Therefore, the % chance of success is 1% + your caster level + 15% if you have Chaos Shield active or + 25% if you have Improved Chaos Shield active.

Gallowglass

... and just for the sake of clarity, that's 100 equally likely outcomes, a d100 roll.

Tangential thought: how would this be handled in PnP? You can't physically make a d100 to roll, there's no such shape, so what do PnP players do to simulate a computer? (Now that's the other way around from the usual question!)

Anduin

@Gallowglass

You roll a D10 twice. One for the tens and one for the units. A roll of 00 = 100.

The dice I have include a:

D4, a pyramid thingy.
D6, a cube with acne.
D8, rare. Mine is gem like.
D10, these are not rare and are basically a slip hazard in the games room as they end up all over the floor... talk about fumbles...
D12, used in my game books... But not as popular nowadays.
D20, rare. Mine is only used to show other people that it EXISTS... It is a green gem of CHAOS...

...

The wife refers to it as random number generator... And believes the same could be produced with a bit of card, a pin and a cut out arrow... This of course is pure heresy and should not be talked about any further...