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SoD and Beamdog have got support from WotC

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Comments

  • marcerormarceror Member Posts: 577
    If I were a cRPG developer I think I would just neglect to mention characters sexual proclivities altogether. I mean, 9 times out 10 you're in a life or death situation. How about characters get their minds out of the gutter and focus on not getting themselves killed.

    Gay, straight, or otherwise, I don't care who you're buggerin'. Just wait to do it until after we've finished our grand adventure, else I'm going to accuse you of being an "unprofessional adventurer" and make a call to the local cRPG Human Resources department. Take that!

    SilverstarTasveryn
  • LorvaylinLorvaylin Member Posts: 41
    marceror said:

    If I were a cRPG developer I think I would just neglect to mention characters sexual proclivities altogether. I mean, 9 times out 10 you're in a life or death situation. How about characters get their minds out of the gutter and focus on not getting themselves killed.

    Gay, straight, or otherwise, I don't care who you're buggerin'. Just wait to do it until after we've finished our grand adventure, else I'm going to accuse you of being an "unprofessional adventurer" and make a call to the local cRPG Human Resources department. Take that!

    Yup Pillers of eternity got that right

  • DabusDabus Member Posts: 27
    bengoshi said:

    Many people have been wondering what the WotC's reaction to SoD would be. Now we know.

    "To our community,

    Dungeons & Dragons stands by the stories our partners tell and we fully support the choices Beamdog has made in developing Siege of Dragonspear. Inclusivity is a core value of Wizards of the Coast and we believe that all people, regardless of ethnicity, background, gender identity or sexuality, should be free to play our games without fear of harassment or attacks. In July of 2014 we released the D&D Player’s Handbook for the fifth edition and included the following section as an example of our core values.



    Sincerely,
    Nathan Stewart
    Director of Dungeons & Dragons"

    https://www.facebook.com/dungeonsanddragons/photos/a.98724281070.125189.73340321070/10153970936806071/?type=1&theater

    I agree.

    But with the exception of a few bigots and trolls, a lot of people were upset on how Mizhena was implemented and not the fact she is transgender. I hope WotC and others can understand this because it bares repeating. Then again, personally, I don't have much of a problem with how she was handled in the first place but, eh, that's just me.

    GenderNihilismGirdleprem0nitionBillyH666
  • GenderNihilismGirdleGenderNihilismGirdle Member Posts: 1,336
    edited April 2016
    Philhelm said:

    But that said, as an LGBT (the B and the T) person with many friends in the closet (who would never report on a survey that would contribute to whichever statistically irrelevant hole you fished 3.4% out of for the entire world from) I have to say: stop speaking on things related to marginalized and oppressed groups you are not a part of please. Everyone who is in the know and in these groups can see what you're doing and it's ignorant at best and sneeringly disingenuous on average (and at worst...well, there's TOS on these boards so I don't want to label what the kind of arguments you're making contribute to at worst).

    You know, sexuality can be a complex thing. What if an individual identifies as a heterosexual, but sometimes engages in homosexual activity? Perhaps that person doesn't even identify as bisexual since there may be no attraction to the same sex, or maybe only situational attraction to the same sex. Or perhaps the attraction exists but not the self-identification. Can those people weigh in, or only the people who are deeply embedded within LGBT self-identification, and who feel oppressed? Can one person ever truly speak for many on the sole basis of identity?
    -said no LGBT person ever, especially those subjected to violence based on how dominant groups conceive of their identity

    like look, I getcha, identity is a fluid thing, but maybe oppression is about actually being oppressed rather than "feeling oppressed" and you wouldn't have written this garbage paragraph if you knew the first thing about oppression! lots of straight people seem to have this extremely wrong opinion I see you spouting about "oh they feel oppressed well sometimes I also have my feelings hurt" and it's just. not. the same. thing. and your lack of understanding would be funny if it wasn't so prevalent, and if this point of view's prevalence didn't convince so many people who don't experience oppression that it must be the right way to conceive of oppression

    I guarantee you that people who benefit from passing as heterosexual most of the time, regardless of "experimentation", don't get the violence directed at them that people who don't pass as heterosexual do, and people who ping on people's "gaydars" can't afford the luxury of treating identity as an abstraction like dominant groups get to since it's how members of a dominant group apply conceptions of these abstractions IN REAL LIFE that affect people

    like, it's not "self-identification" when someone deep in the closet is outed publicaly and then loses their job or is subjected to homophobic violence as happened to regular people throughout the 80s in the wake of the AIDS crisis to use just one example...but of course, you don't live with that fear and so you don't know what it's like, which again is how you managed to grunt and squeeze out that stinker of a paragraph

    again, straight people should stop thinking they know everything about stuff they are not a part of. there are material realities that people have to live through that don't match up with uninformed abstractions like yours, and there are reasons for that which contradict it being a simple matter of "choosing identity"

    Ayiekie
  • SilverstarSilverstar Member Posts: 2,193

    BelleSorciere I think Silverstar was just kidding and jamming all the words the post they were quoting didn't want said as a joke

    Aw geez. Did you have to ruin it? Was hoping simples would react.

    Oh well :)

  • BelleSorciereBelleSorciere Member Posts: 1,938
    edited April 2016

    @BelleSorciere I think @Silverstar was just kidding and jamming all the words the post they were quoting didn't want said as a joke

    Ah, okay then.

    My apologies, @Silverstar. I fell victim to Poe's law.

    GenderNihilismGirdleSilverstar
  • MornmagorMornmagor Member Posts: 1,160
    edited April 2016
    Purudaya said:

    Mornmagor said:

    Purudaya said:

    Mornmagor said:

    I am amazed that people still think Mizhena was the problem.

    Newsflash people, no, if Mizhena was a problem for the negative reviews, Krem of Dragon Age would be as well, in a more popular game. But Krem wasn't a problem, and no one cared.

    If you haven't figured it out yet, it was a mistake to take a jab at GamerGate directly through Minsc. That was what caused the "enthusiasm" of people to express negativity.

    Plus, it should be a logical conclusion that people will get pissed off, when you basically try to tell them they need fixing through a particular writer, who managed to basically insult both fans, previous writers and everyone who disagrees even slightly, in one phrase.

    You should have never brought politics like FemFreq or GG in Baldur's Gate. What were you thinking? Unless you wanted publicity, in which case, you got it.

    The denial has got to stop. There were a litany of posts throughout the forums after release expressing blatant anti-LGBTQ sentiment and asking that Mizhena be removed entirely. People were banned for using anti-trans slurs and obscenities. I'm glad that people didn't review bomb Dragon Age for the inclusion of Krem, but that's not what happened here.

    I'm glad to see that Wizards of the Coast is standing by Beamdog and that trans inclusion is now officially lore-compatible. If people don't think trans characters belong in the realms, they should take it up with WotC.
    It was always lore compatible since 1st edition. Corellon Larethian was always without specific gender, in the deities and demigods book.

    It's not denial. It's not Mizhena that brought all this. It never happened on a much bigger game with a more prominent trans character. Why did it happen now?

    It's logic. You're using anecdotal evidence based on 8-10 vocal bigots that were "insulted" but such an inclusion.
    But if you want to continue attacking a developer that is already removing the precious Minsc line and changing the trans character that apparently nobody cared about, go right ahead.
    I'm not attacking them ._. i am criticizing something specific

    I am actually enjoying the game. It's fun :33

    I was a bit pissed about some things i heard, but that has nothing to do with Scott as a writer.

    And while i pointed my opinion on why the reviews were bad, of course it should be obvious that a game should not be judged based on whoever it "offended" for no reason, if that was the cause.

    But i seriously don't think that Mizhena was the sole reason. They just shouldn't bring this FF vs GG in BG, in my opinion. They motivated a big(trust me it's big) community to bash something.

    Anyway, i'll tell you what i think about the game itself, when i finish it, which might be months from now since i'm really slow and don't have much time ._.

    However, it's looking good so far.

  • ankhegankheg Member Posts: 546
    edited April 2016
    bengoshi said:

    Many people have been wondering what the WotC's reaction to SoD would be. Now we know.

    "To our community,

    Dungeons & Dragons stands by the stories our partners tell and we fully support the choices Beamdog has made in developing Siege of Dragonspear. Inclusivity is a core value of Wizards of the Coast and we believe that all people, regardless of ethnicity, background, gender identity or sexuality, should be free to play our games without fear of harassment or attacks. In July of 2014 we released the D&D Player’s Handbook for the fifth edition and included the following section as an example of our core values.



    Sincerely,
    Nathan Stewart
    Director of Dungeons & Dragons"

    https://www.facebook.com/dungeonsanddragons/photos/a.98724281070.125189.73340321070/10153970936806071/?type=1&theater

    Correct me if I am wrong but Beamdog had to ask for special permission from WotC to use the old AD&D rules instead of the new ones. A ruleset which is anything but modern: it has obscure and arbitrary rules, racial restrictions etc.
    Apparently this old, complicated, restrictive set of rules does have some kind of values.
    Now it seems to me that Beamdog could have made a game with the new rules or at least could have tried to make it more inclusive. After all, we live in the 21st century where a dwarf with low intelligence is entitled to be a wizard and there are many weak elves whose greatest dream is to be a professional barbarian. Luckily, Beamdog was wise enough not to change these restrictions.
    Anyway, I can see that you have WotC’s support and you have and will have mine in the future. At least… financially. But referring to the 5th edition as an evidence of anything, considering the fact that this is still (more or less) a 2nd edition game, is not really convincing.

    Post edited by ankheg on
  • joluvjoluv Member Posts: 2,136
    @ankheg: Convincing of what? This was a statement about the values of the company and their support of Beamdog. They presented that excerpt as evidence that they're committed to inclusivity. I don't understand what Second Edition has to do with that.

    illathidJuliusBorisov
  • MornmagorMornmagor Member Posts: 1,160
    edited April 2016
    It doesn't. Trans characters exist since 1st edition. Deities and Demigods. Corellon Larethian.

    On the other hand, i don't get what WoTC wanted to say, especially since they exist since 1st edition, and even have a special mention on the 5th edition player's handbook.

    Oh well ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

    Post edited by Mornmagor on
  • BillyH666BillyH666 Member Posts: 96


    A lady-warrior in samurai-inspired armor!

    She wears that massive hair needle under her helmet?! Woah! That must be uncomfortable as hell... :confounded:
    It builds character

  • RawgrimRawgrim Member Posts: 621
    BillyH666 said:


    A lady-warrior in samurai-inspired armor!

    She wears that massive hair needle under her helmet?! Woah! That must be uncomfortable as hell... :confounded:
    It builds character

    Means WOTC thinks women are pin-heads.

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