Whimp taunts please!

HexHammer

While I find many of the taunts very good, there's not the whimpy taunts category, all are very heroic and such.

- AAARRRR!!!
- not in the face!!! ..(sob!! ..whimper!!)
- run for the hills!
- no, ..i ..i don't want to..
- ..no, it ..it will fight back..
- can't someone else do it?

Anduin

LOL! We need more wimpy taunts!

- Why me! Why me!
- Look , can't we talk about this!
- I've got your back... Honest.
- I'll be right behind you...
- We meant no offence... Err... We'll just be going...
- Don't just stand there RUUUUNNN!
- Your running the wrong way! Run away, AWAAAAY!

Brude

I feel like all of these should have been added to Khalid's dialogues. And maybe Garrick's too. :-D

HexHammer

For women, maybe not whimpering but different.

- NOOOEESSS!!! MY HAIR!! MY HAIR!! (enrages) ..THAT SORRY BASTARD MUST DIE!!!!!!!
- awww, I broke a nail..
- uuh! Look at those yummy shoes!!
- does this armor make my butt look big?
- OH ..MY ..GAWD!!!
- eww, that's an armor I don't wanna get caught dead in..

kilroy_was_here

I thought Khalid's dialogue already had all of these things in it. I guess it's been a while since he made the cut to join my party. 'Better part of valor' indeed...

Jalily

HexHammer said:

For women, maybe not whimpering but different.

- NOOOEESSS!!! MY HAIR!! MY HAIR!! (enrages) ..THAT SORRY BASTARD MUST DIE!!!!!!!
- awww, I broke a nail..
- uuh! Look at those yummy shoes!!
- does this armor make my butt look big?
- OH ..MY ..GAWD!!!
- eww, that's an armor I don't wanna get caught dead in..

Ugh, no thanks. The wimpy taunts posted earlier work just fine for a female character.

HexHammer

kilroy_was_here said:

I thought Khalid's dialogue already had all of these things in it. I guess it's been a while since he made the cut to join my party. 'Better part of valor' indeed...

Thing is, one HAS to have Khalid in order to get these taunts. Imo it would be better if we could choose them at will when we create our main char.

LadyRhian

@HexHammer My inner female character says we need a "No, no! Not the family Jewels!" wimpy taunt for men if you want to stick those "female" taunts in the game... How about an "All I wanna do is drink and get laid!" one for men. Because the ones you posted? So sexist it makes me sick.

HexHammer

Oo oO ..erhmmmmm!?

It's a game! It should be fun and relaxed! No need to take everything soooo serious!

kybishop

I've gotta agree with @LadyRhian Those "female" taunts made me cringe. Playing it off as "not being so serious" isn't cool.

EDIT: To put it in another perspective, what if it was racist taunts? It's a game, and it's not so serious, we should be fun and relaxed about the racism!

For the record, I think your and Anduin's first posts are hilarious, just want to stomp the sexism before it's brushed off as okay.

Dee

A kettle that you wear on your head is still black.

...Unless it's not black. I don't think I've ever seen an actual black kettle. Google's being less than helpful, too.

My point is, whether it's in a game or a book or said on the playground at school, it's still going to be judged for what it is. Gender stereotyping is a plague on the gaming industry that's only just recently even begun to find its way remission, and it's something feminist gamers (not all of whom are female, I'll note with some pride) are always going to be aware of.

Now, if there were a female NPC who said those things, who was then ridiculed by another female NPC for being so stereotypical, then that would be different, because it would be a subversion of the stereotype. But sexism on its own without any commentary on the fact that it's sexist? Problematic, at the very least.

<--has a wife in grad school; knows stuff (also went to college and so knows stuff from own experience, but yeah)

LadyRhian

@Hexhammer It wasn't funny. "It was just a joke!" Is something used to try and excuse stuff like this all the time. Skie in Baldur's Gate 1 wasn't funny to me, either, and she already has the "I broke a nail..." and "I mussed my hair" and "My feet hurt" and "I have a headache" and "I have a cold". It wasn't funny to me then, and it isn't funny now. The people on here include women, and I don't think any of them would think that was funny. And then there was Eldoth, who looks down on all women, tells Shar-Teel her place is in the kitchen making cookies, and constantly puts Skie (who he is having a relationship with) down. It wasn't funny then, and now, its just this side of stupid.

And... it's not a comedy game, it's a Roleplaying Game. It's not even a comedy RPG. The kind of stuff you posted should only go with whipped cream pies in the face and pratfalls on banana peels. Because that's the level of "comedy" we are talking here.

paulsifer42

This: Your running the wrong way! Run away, AWAAAAY!
is probably my favorite.

LadyRhian

By the bye, Aosaw... One black kettle for you:



There is also this older kind of kettle:

Dee

Eh. That first one's more Onyx than black, and the second one's more like a dark "iron grey". The search continues!

paulsifer42

I'm afraid the saying probably came from the cast iron of the second one, which was considered "black."

Dee

Clearly the phrase was coined by someone with no appreciation for the subtleties of color. I move that the saying be changed to: "Sounds like the pot calling the kettle a very dark iron grey, where the assumed pot and kettle are both made out of similarly colored materials."

LadyRhian

@paulsifer Especially after it was hung over a fire for a while and it got stained with char... And Aosaw... having owned onyx... onyx is a black stone. I collect semi-precious and gemstones as a hobby.

paulsifer42

@LadyRhian Sounds like you'd know.

LadyRhian

Yup! I have a lovely little onyx, and a pair of onyx and 14K gold earrings once owned by my mom.

paulsifer42

Nice.

HexHammer

LadyRhian said:

@Hexhammer It wasn't funny. "It was just a joke!" Is something used to try and excuse stuff like this all the time. Skie in Baldur's Gate 1 wasn't funny to me, either, and she already has the "I broke a nail..." and "I mussed my hair" and "My feet hurt" and "I have a headache" and "I have a cold". It wasn't funny to me then, and it isn't funny now. The people on here include women, and I don't think any of them would think that was funny. And then there was Eldoth, who looks down on all women, tells Shar-Teel her place is in the kitchen making cookies, and constantly puts Skie (who he is having a relationship with) down. It wasn't funny then, and now, its just this side of stupid.

And... it's not a comedy game, it's a Roleplaying Game. It's not even a comedy RPG. The kind of stuff you posted should only go with whipped cream pies in the face and pratfalls on banana peels. Because that's the level of "comedy" we are talking here.

While I largely agree with you, I find your point moot! It's not ok to be sexistic, but it's ok to be able to kill innocent people and animals? Beings who has feelings, can talk and think like you and me, yet we kill them for selfish reasons, we don't even bother trying to reason with them most of the time! We could help them become better people and save them from a life of dishonesty and brutallity, but no! ..we kill them in cold blood without consequenses! You seem not to care for anything other than your own needs.

If everything should be so politcally correct, then we shouldn't be able to kill anyone unless we'r send to do it with govermental approval, or in unavoidable selfdefense.

We'r blessed with the right to choose, you are not forced to choose these potential sexist taunts, if they should appear, that's the essence of freedom!

paulsifer42

@HexHammer I can't tell if you're talking about in-game or IRL...

LadyRhian

@HexHammer The game doesn't take place in the Real world. This message board and this thread does happen to be in it, however. I was responding to you in the real world, and I don't think you are being funny now, either.

Jalily

@HexHammer The game clearly shows killing innocents to be evil, and evil has negative consequences - your reputation drops, shop prices rise, good and neutral party members eventually leave, and the Flaming Fist comes after you. All designed to make the game harder for someone who insists on morally harmful actions. This is the commentary @Aosaw was talking about, the thing that makes it clear whether the game supports something or merely allows it.

In contrast, your female stereotypes are only meant to be enjoyed. We're supposed to have fun not with a cowardly character who happens to be a woman, but a character specifically designed to embody some of the worst, most annoying traits associated with modern day females. Even if you didn't mean anything by it, someone who hears these lines in the game won't have any context besides the video game industry's well-known treatment of women. And these lines are indistinguishable from the sexist caricatures many people actually believe in.

They're also immersion-breaking.

HexHammer

Jalily said:

@HexHammer The game clearly shows killing innocents to be evil, and evil has negative consequences - your reputation drops, shop prices rise, good and neutral party members eventually leave, and the Flaming Fist comes after you. All designed to make the game harder for someone who insists on morally harmful actions. This is the commentary @Aosaw was talking about, the thing that makes it clear whether the game supports something or merely allows it.

In contrast, your female stereotypes are only meant to be enjoyed. We're supposed to have fun not with a cowardly character who happens to be a woman, but a character specifically designed to embody some of the worst, most annoying traits associated with modern day females. Even if you didn't mean anything by it, someone who hears these lines in the game won't have any context besides the video game industry's well-known treatment of women. And these lines are indistinguishable from the sexist caricatures many people actually believe in.

They're also immersion-breaking.

Yes there are a few people that does have bad consequenses for rep, but if I invade an area filled with sirence I basicly kill innocent people who has the right to defend their terretory.

The very act of killing is far far worse than being a bit sexistic, this is out of proportion and hysterically.

Dee

You can attack anyone or anything in the game, but it's the player's decision to do so. What makes gender-stereotyping a problem is that it's something in the game's writing and content, which the game is promoting by writing it in a way that suggests it is acceptable.

You can choose not to invade the Sirens' territory, you can choose not to attack the xvart camp. You can choose to only go through the main story. But you can't choose to have Skie behave like the conventional "princess"; that's how she's written.

That's the difference.

LadyRhian

@Hexhammer Yes, killing is bad, but so is being sexist. What's worse, dying by drowning or poison? Both leave you dead. Keep in mind though, that most of the monsters in the game don't tell you to leave or they will kill you, many of them will just attack you without warning, which is just as evil.

HexHammer

Aosaw said:

You can attack anyone or anything in the game, but it's the player's decision to do so. What makes gender-stereotyping a problem is that it's something in the game's writing and content, which the game is promoting by writing it in a way that suggests it is acceptable.

You can choose not to invade the Sirens' territory, you can choose not to attack the xvart camp. You can choose to only go through the main story. But you can't choose to have Skie behave like the conventional "princess"; that's how she's written.

That's the difference.

The entire game are rewardig you for killing. All the classes has very nasty abilities and spells which can kill very effectivly.

HexHammer

LadyRhian said:

@Hexhammer Yes, killing is bad, but so is being sexist. What's worse, dying by drowning or poison? Both leave you dead. Keep in mind though, that most of the monsters in the game don't tell you to leave or they will kill you, many of them will just attack you without warning, which is just as evil.

Do FBI and CIA and local police just wals down to the local crime gang and start shooting? Even if the state has death penalty? No? The bring the criminals to justice.
We play a game that encourage us to kill left and right without ANY justice in general, only for the mere plesure of role play we get to have to moch up justice when convenient.

Dee

That's true, @HexHammer, and it's part of another, much larger issue--which is that a lot of video games make the assumption that killing monsters is just a part of the adventure, regardless of whether or not they're really deserving of being killed. We can get sidetracked into a "video games promote a culture of violence", but that's not really the issue here.

When you kill in a video game, you are aware that it's a means to an end. You kill things so that you can get loot and experience. You kill enemies because they're trying to kill you. You kill the villain because the villain is evil.

Explain, then, how sexist voice sets or commentary, and gender role stereotyping, is a means to any end except to marginalize women (or men, for that matter).

A sexist character like Anomen can be talked back to. You can point out the foibles in his dealing with women, you can even antagonize him for it. You can also choose to accept them, if you want to.

If there is no mechanism in place for questioning that kind of chauvinism, then it stops being a commentary on gender stereotypes and starts being a vehicle to promote them. Whether that's the intention or not, that's the result. And really, it usually isn't the intention. It's usually the result of not realizing how damaging it is to have the main female protagonist be protected by her male sidekick, or to rely on her sexy clothing and seductive voice to curry favor with a male-controlled society.

It's the acknowledgement of the problem that leads to changes from this:


Into this:


(same character, two years apart)

Which is really strong forward progress.