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Will your knowledge of the future affect your decisions?

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  • Son_of_ImoenSon_of_Imoen Member Posts: 1,806
    Jolanthus said:

    @sandmanCCL We obviously have very different ideas of what we want out of our mages. I want heavy artillery and you want an EMP.

    for clarification purposes: what is an EMP?

  • DeeDee Member Posts: 10,447
    ElectroMagnetic Pulse. It disables any electrical technology within the blast radius, and that's it.

    Useful when fighting a robot invasion.
  • Son_of_ImoenSon_of_Imoen Member Posts: 1,806
    edited September 2012
    Aosaw said:

    ElectroMagnetic Pulse. It disables any electrical technology within the blast radius, and that's it.

    Useful when fighting a robot invasion.

    Yes, I googled that definition, but I guess I'm too slow-minded to see the link with a de-buffing mage (my favourite type of mage as well). But now you tell me what an electro-magnetic pulse does, it becomes clearer now. I read the word and I just assumed an electro-magnetic pulse was just another way of denominating an electromagnetic wave and there must be some other game-related meaning to the word.

    Thanks for clarifying.
  • Raistlin82Raistlin82 Member Posts: 256
    Or not... I don't know.

    I guess in the end I'll take them for my "good" team (i'm making a good, a neutral and an evil playthrough).
    However, what I'd like is to be able to AFFECT THE EVENTS in the RPG I'm playing, and CHANGE the, so far apparently inesorable, fate of those characters.
  • GoodSteveGoodSteve Member Posts: 607
    Lemernis said:

    In further defense of Khalid, as a test I once played two parallel games facing exactly the same encounters through the Nashkel mines using the same PC and Minsc, in one game, and with Khalid in the other. Minsc was equipped with two-handed sword, Khalid with long sword and shield. Khalid actually got more kills.

    As for Dyna being an Invoker, and therefore restricted against scribing Enchantment and Conjuration spells, that is a major deficit. Sleep, Hold, Confusion, Emotion: Hopelessnes, Greater Malison, Chaos, Domination, and Hold Monster are all great spells. Monster summoning I typically don't use in BG1 because it almost makes the game too easy. But I like limitations and shortcomings that exist for characters because it makes them more interesting and challenging to play. It's then like, okay, well how then do I pull the best from this character? That's more fun to me by now than being uber-powerful.

    Dyna can actually use wands of Sleep, Monster Summoning, and Paralyzation. And she can equip Algernon's cloak (which can be pickpocketed).

    That must have been an anomaly of the dice. I'm currently playing a TuTu game with the canon party both Khalid and Minsc are level 7. Without any weapons equipped Minsc has a Thac0 of 11 while Khalid has a Thac0 of 13. Minsc with his +2 Two-Handed Sword "Spiderbane" has a Thac0 of 8 with two dots in Two-Handed sword (they both have the guantlets of weapon skill) while Khalid has a Thac0 of 10 with his Bastard Sword +1, +3 vs. Shapeshifters with 4 dots in Bastard Sword. When you first get Khalid he doesn't have all of his dots put into one weapon, and even late game (I'm in Baldur's Gate and they're level 7 with roughly 82000 XP) Khalid still doesn't have Grand Mastery. Minsc does considerably more damage and also hits more reliably. Minsc (who has been in the party for 5 fewer days than Khalid) is responsible for 33% of the total party XP and 30% of total party kills whereas Khalid is responsible for 17% of the total party XP and 18% of the total party kills. Minsc is a beast compared to Khalid. He's literally twice as effective.

    Edwin, Quayle, Xan, and Xzar can also use those wands and until you find or buy one of those wands they can also prepare and cast those spells. Dynaheir cannot.
  • GilgalahadGilgalahad Member Posts: 237
    The knowledge is irrelevant to me as i've played both often already since they came out way back when. And i always play the cannon group in BG1. I find it a challenge to play with them despite their flaws and have never had any problems with big K dying or running awat on me. I also like the versatility of the personalities, it's what makes the cannon group enjoyable. You have a diverse group of personalities all learning to cope with one another.

    They also complement each other well. I don't know how minsc was before his bump on the noggin, but he's now the boisterous, loveable, boo carrying lug that he is vs Dynaheir's quiet, intellectual demeanor. Same with the seemingly most hated pair. Jaheira is a force of nature as opposed to khalid's shy, introverted personality. They're like 2 pairs of comfortable shoes who book-end each other. People i think are so obsessed with playing the "perfect" parties that they judge npc's by their skills on not the depth of their characters. I couldn't wait to kill off montaron and xzar at the 1st opportunity as they rubbed me the wrong way and how can people diss on khalid yet love edwin? He's even worse than Jaheira!! He's a self-centered, condescending a-hole and i killed him the 1st time i ever met him and continue to kill him without even speaking to him on every playthrough. I don't give a crap if he's the best mage there is, i can't stand him.

    I've mentioned on a similar thread that 1 sometimes switch out 1 member for the archer...Coran? or is it Kivan...i forget, but the rest of the characters, while some are good, just don't interest me as much as the cannon group. Someone else mentioned that many of the other npc's just don't have the personalities and i agree. They just don't entice me into playing them other than the 1 time i tried them all at various points. Now mind you with the 2 new chars(i'll use the blackguard at some point out of curiosity though he'd clash with my paladin) i'm at a loss as to who i'll drop from the cannon group on m 2nd playthrough in order to bring Neera and Rasaad. I may have to drop dynaheir and khalid......i have a while to decide yet with the delay.

    This is only my personal opinion and at the end of the day, people play the game and use npc's that they feel comfortable playing and more power to E1 for having different opinions on that. It's your game lads and lasses, play it as you like and have fun doing it :-)
  • sandmanCCLsandmanCCL Member Posts: 1,389
    GoodSteve said:


    That must have been an anomaly of the dice. I'm currently playing a TuTu game with the canon party both Khalid and Minsc are level 7. Without any weapons equipped Minsc has a Thac0 of 11 while Khalid has a Thac0 of 13. Minsc with his +2 Two-Handed Sword "Spiderbane" has a Thac0 of 8 with two dots in Two-Handed sword (they both have the guantlets of weapon skill) while Khalid has a Thac0 of 10 with his Bastard Sword +1, +3 vs. Shapeshifters with 4 dots in Bastard Sword. When you first get Khalid he doesn't have all of his dots put into one weapon, and even late game (I'm in Baldur's Gate and they're level 7 with roughly 82000 XP) Khalid still doesn't have Grand Mastery. Minsc does considerably more damage and also hits more reliably. Minsc (who has been in the party for 5 fewer days than Khalid) is responsible for 33% of the total party XP and 30% of total party kills whereas Khalid is responsible for 17% of the total party XP and 18% of the total party kills. Minsc is a beast compared to Khalid. He's literally twice as effective.

    Edwin, Quayle, Xan, and Xzar can also use those wands and until you find or buy one of those wands they can also prepare and cast those spells. Dynaheir cannot.

    The problem with simply looking at XP like that is it only shows kills. A further look into numbers will change things up a bit.

    1: They are utilizing different weapons with different damage schemes. The thing about your situation here is Khalid could just as easily be using Spider's Bane. Give him the Gauntlets of Ogre Power and factoring in 4 pips in Large Sword vs. just the 2 Minsc would have, he'd be +1 thac0/+1 damage better than Minsc using the Gauntlets of Weapon Expertise. And if you're going to argue "well gear is a part of this equation," it's also the most optimal distribution of gear between these two fellows. Khalid gains +3 hit/+6 damage from bumping up to 18/00 while Minsc would only gain +1/+1. The gloves of weapon expertise help Minsc more than the Gauntlets of Ogre Power would.

    2: That simply factors in deadliness. It doesn't factor in tankiness. If there was some meter that measured attacks dodged or total damage absorbed, I'm sure Khalid would lead in both those categories. He's a more effective tank. Khalid has 2 more HP per level and 1 better Armor Class. Plus, Khalid gains ranged Thac0 while Minsc does not.

    3: Mages are the most important people in your party anyway. Xan is only 4% of my party's total XP value vs. my Bhaalspawn's 68%, but most of my Bhaalspawn's effectiveness comes from beating up sleeping targets. This really has nothing to do with Khalid vs. Minsc. Just saying. Xan is pretty awesome.
  • GoodSteveGoodSteve Member Posts: 607
    edited September 2012

    GoodSteve said:


    That must have been an anomaly of the dice. I'm currently playing a TuTu game with the canon party both Khalid and Minsc are level 7. Without any weapons equipped Minsc has a Thac0 of 11 while Khalid has a Thac0 of 13. Minsc with his +2 Two-Handed Sword "Spiderbane" has a Thac0 of 8 with two dots in Two-Handed sword (they both have the guantlets of weapon skill) while Khalid has a Thac0 of 10 with his Bastard Sword +1, +3 vs. Shapeshifters with 4 dots in Bastard Sword. When you first get Khalid he doesn't have all of his dots put into one weapon, and even late game (I'm in Baldur's Gate and they're level 7 with roughly 82000 XP) Khalid still doesn't have Grand Mastery. Minsc does considerably more damage and also hits more reliably. Minsc (who has been in the party for 5 fewer days than Khalid) is responsible for 33% of the total party XP and 30% of total party kills whereas Khalid is responsible for 17% of the total party XP and 18% of the total party kills. Minsc is a beast compared to Khalid. He's literally twice as effective.

    Edwin, Quayle, Xan, and Xzar can also use those wands and until you find or buy one of those wands they can also prepare and cast those spells. Dynaheir cannot.

    The problem with simply looking at XP like that is it only shows kills. A further look into numbers will change things up a bit.

    1: They are utilizing different weapons with different damage schemes. The thing about your situation here is Khalid could just as easily be using Spider's Bane. Give him the Gauntlets of Ogre Power and factoring in 4 pips in Large Sword vs. just the 2 Minsc would have, he'd be +1 thac0/+1 damage better than Minsc using the Gauntlets of Weapon Expertise. And if you're going to argue "well gear is a part of this equation," it's also the most optimal distribution of gear between these two fellows. Khalid gains +3 hit/+6 damage from bumping up to 18/00 while Minsc would only gain +1/+1. The gloves of weapon expertise help Minsc more than the Gauntlets of Ogre Power would.

    2: That simply factors in deadliness. It doesn't factor in tankiness. If there was some meter that measured attacks dodged or total damage absorbed, I'm sure Khalid would lead in both those categories. He's a more effective tank. Khalid has 2 more HP per level and 1 better Armor Class. Plus, Khalid gains ranged Thac0 while Minsc does not.

    3: Mages are the most important people in your party anyway. Xan is only 4% of my party's total XP value vs. my Bhaalspawn's 68%, but most of my Bhaalspawn's effectiveness comes from beating up sleeping targets. This really has nothing to do with Khalid vs. Minsc. Just saying. Xan is pretty awesome.
    1) Actually Khalid, in this case, couldn't be using Spidersbane since as I stated it's BG TuTu and there is no "Large Swords" proficiency in the BG2 engine, which is what BGEE will be using. I am using the Guantlets of Ogre Power with Jaheira since she cannot gain more than 2 pips in a weapon proficiency and she has 15 strength so it's actually not the most optimal distribution to give them to Khalid since he can gain grand mastery to somewhat make up for his terrible strength.

    2) I was only going by the criteria posted earlier. In my example it shows that in those areas Minsc is a far better warrior than Khalid. Also, if Minsc has a lower AC wouldn't he actually be absorbing more damage in the long run? What with getting hit more often and all... Also, since we're factoring in gear you could also simply give Minsc the Guantlets of Dex to increase his dex further than Khalids thus making him better with ranged attacks.

    3) As I said earlier I was only posting my findings in the parameters of what was posted earlier. I also would have to agree that Xan is quite awesome. I'd suggest checking out the Gibberlings 3 NPC banters mod, it adds a romance for Xan.
  • O_BruceO_Bruce Member Posts: 2,790
    While playing Baldur's Gate, I'm a ROLEPALYER. That means already knowing what happens in later game (or next game) doesn't affect my current decisions - after all, I'm trying making decisions from my character's point of view.
  • ImBarryScottImBarryScott Member Posts: 18
    A bit more likely I suppose, I am quite tempted to do a Imoen-Khalid-Jaheira-Minsc-Dynaheir run.
  • MoomintrollMoomintroll Member Posts: 1,498

    I normally do have Khalid and Dynaheir, playing Shadows of Amn first probably left me with a lasting desire to know who they are.

    What a dunce; obviously a contradictory statement - I mean if what I said was true then it definitely does affect my choice.

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