@Lindeblom I enjoy immersion as well, and I like the occasional (or even more than occasional) parts of games that aren't necessarily a part of driving the main plot forward or advancing your character level. I mean, I really like the idea that the player should feel something when cutting down a doppleganger that looks like Gorion, but that is quite literally in the mind of the player. Whether or not the player will feel that is not a game function that can be implemented by devs. The good thing about the suggestions in the OP is that they could perhaps be implemented in that they would be new content in a way, but it's sort of a grey area and might be considered changing the story.
What I would like to see are things like more choices and consequences, different ways to solve problems besides inevitable combat (and I know there are some...) that reward the same xp as combat does, and the implementation of non combat statistics being important for non combat purposes (i.e. raising a characters intelligence not to get more spells, but because it will open up a wealth of new dialogue options, possibly allowing you to get more quests or beat an opponent at a game of wits, or a high charisma allowing you to smooth talk your way out of a fight). These things, as well as different possible endings (not just a single ending followed by a single choice at the end of ToB. Obviously this stuff can't be put into BG:EE because it changes far too much, but it is the one thing that I ever felt was lacking from the Baldur's Gate games (although they are still my favorite games, close seconds being Fallout 1&2, and PS:T). These things, though, can hopefully be put into BG3 if they do end up making one and possibly other titles they end up releasing. Sorry, I know this was off topic, just thought I'd share lol.
I don't think it would be considered a change to the story as the new dialogs would only be sort of "illustrations" of what we're told by the narrator at the beginning of the game, or sometimes in the journal (or get insight via some of the already existing dialogs).
I'd also like to see more choices and consequences... As for being able to solve a problem by talking the smart way in case of fighting, there's one really good example, afair it's in Nashkel but sadly I've forgotten the names of the two guys in the inn... AFAIR, you even earned more XPs if you managed to calm the guy down in case of killing him.
@Yorleen yeah I think I know what you're talking about, you mean the guy that comes up to you at Feldepost's in Beregost? That is a good example, although I'm not sure if there are any charisma/reputation checks involved there or how it works exactly, but yes more things like that would be nice. I know that combat is an inherent part of the game and I'm fine with that but the system employed (D&D) allows a ton of options for advancing through non combat means as well.
Another example, in a totally different style, was Noober! lol You could either knock him out (or kill him), or be patient enough until he had nothing more to say (afair, here again you earn good xp for being patient). Sorry, just for the joke, it's quite different from the above (but I do like Noober).
I'm really not sure as for the location of the guy, yeah, might be in Beregost actually. I'll see when I get there in my new game.
Well, I tested the BG1 NPC Pack yesterday evening and I wonder if my housemate really installed everything because the only new dialog I got in Candlekeep was with the noble couple at the inn + some portraits were added for some important characters (Gorion, Winthrop...). I played until the PC meets Imoen after Gorion's death and the dialog then was still the original one... I'm disapointed as I was expecting new dialogs from the start... Or maybe something went wrong in the installation process?
These of you knowing this mod, should I have got more new dialogs?
@Yorleen I believe that the first time the mod affects the game is upon going up to Gorion's body, at which point Imoen should say something new... and then once you meet up with Jaheira at Friendly Arm Inn she has some things to say regarding his death as well, I can't recall all the things the mod does but as it says in the readme:
"The BG1NPC Project: Banters, Quests, and Interjections This component adds intra-party banters to BG NPCs. Each joinable NPC banters with every other joinable NPC and with the player character. It also adds interjections, scenery dialogue, encounters and quests for the NPCs . Kagain, Coran, Garrick, Kivan, Dynaheir, Xzar, Jaheira, Tiax, and Xan have custom personal quests. Additional small 'Easter Egg' encounters are also included. "
BG1NPC Project also allows for PC initiated dialogue so that you can start conversations with NPCs. I the added dialogue regarding Gorion's death isn't happening then either the mod didn't install correctly, or I'm mistaken about BG1NPC adding it, there are a couple of other mods (such as unfinished business and a couple of other dialogue/banter mods) that I generally install, so it's possible that it's a component of one of them.
Someone else just told me about a dialog initiated by Imoen when we walk to Gorion's body so you must be right - I'll test it this evening, when I'm done with work.
I actually never got to that point. I always made him mad and had to kill him. <_<</p>
Uh, you get 800 xp when you manage to calm him down... much more than killing him ^^
@Yorleen : as far as I read your suggestions, I agree with them. In my opinion, the background at the beginning at the game is not deep enough, and I always found this was a pity, as the rest of the game is full of stuff like these (many funny dialogs, many characters, and so on...).
I never tried the mod "Check the bodies", but I think, at the beginning at least, it speaks of Candlekeep. Maybe some ideas could be implemented in BGEE ?
But, yeah, for me this is a good idea. Background in a rpg is as important as playability (if not more), and more than graphisms... no, I'm not speaking of Dragon Age *angel face*
I'll have to give a try to "check the bodies" too to see what dialogs it adds, even if I'm not really attracted by the concept of more chores (and repetitive ones).
I really enjoyed Dragon Age's graphics but I'm also very fond of BG's isometric view. It's 2 different styles of gaming (though sometimes I did use the isometric view in DA as we could), I enjoy them both. One thing I noticed is that with BG's view, my eyes get less tired than with 3D (I'm a webdesigner/photographer btw, so I spent already way too much time on a computer screen during the day)...
I enjoy the fact you make up your own story and personality. I wouldn't want to be spoon-fed with goody-two-shoes dialogs when RP'ing a CN (and below) character. My PC may not like Gorion, despise Imoen, whatever you want to imagine about his character. And that would be a lot of work for nothing really pertinent about the story to come.
I like the feeling of emergency you get from start.
Actually, I had the idea that a PC not liking Imoen may also get more dialogs and so more occasions to be nasty to her. I don't think it would be a lot of work, the dialogs don't necessarily have to be very long. I found some old notes were I had added some more "branches" to the tree of the first dialog with Imoen, but it's in French sadly. Still, I might rework this in English.
Actually I always play good characters so I generally have answers matching my PC but I can imagine neutral and evil characters may find it difficult sometimes. I also meant adding some more possibilities for them.
Much of reasoning in OP reminds me of why I like dialogue mods such as BG1 NPC Project so much. Best of these mods breath so much life to NPCs and do it in such tasteful fashion that I would have never guessed just what I've been missing. The sheer level of quality present in many of the fan made dialogue mods is highly impressive. IIRC at least one of the people behind BG1 Banters is a published author nowaday, it really shows.
I sometimes wonder if Mister Trent&co have been considering if it would be an idea to go through these mods and try packing some of them along as optional content.
Well, I've just resume playing my first game with BG1 NPC Pack and I'm really liking the added dialogs when you click on Imoen and she asks you how you are, when you meet Xzar and Montaron, and especially when you find Gorion's body that you can even bury... Looking forward to see more as it seems to be a lovely addition! The modders have been careful to respect the various characters' manner of speaking, from what I've seen so far.
Still, I believe adding a few extra lines right when Imoen meets you in the morning, as the PC awakes, wouldn't hurt, for the post-Gorion's death part. (As well as extra dialogs in Candlekeep.)
Anyway, wanted to thank these who recommanded the BG1 NPC Pack to me.
@Tanthalas I'm currently testing the NPC Pack with BGT and taking notes to write a review (and I also note down what I thought is missing at some point). Do you think I can post this here as it matches the OP or should I start a new topic?
Alright then, here I go! Some SPOILERS ahead for these of you who haven't played the BG1 NPC Pack but I'm trying not to say too much about the dialogs' content.
The following will be listing the cool additions brought to us by the NPC Pack. I'll also add my comments in white italic. If I forgot anything, please don't hesitate to let me know !
** Differences between BG1 + TotSC and BGT + BG1 NPC Pack **
1. Candlekeep
- A new dialog is added with the couple of nobles at the inn (they shouldn't know the PC's name as it looks like they first met).
- Portraits have been added for some characters : Winthrop, Firebead, Gatewarden, Obe and Gorion
All other dialogs are the same. IMO the game should start in the library, the PC trying to study with his tutor but unable to focus... Gorion comes to the PC and asks him/her to join him in his room, we see the discussion between them. Imoen comes and meet the PC once he gets out of the library. Afterwards, in case of going to Winthrop's, she goes to the gate and dreams of adventure... Winthrop will ask the PC where she is, he can get her...
2. Sword Coast
- Once Imoen has joined the party, you can click on her to talk with her. The first time she'll ask you how you are doing... The next times, you'll get general questions/answers.
- When you meet the wandering guy, Kolssed, Imoen initiate the dialog with him and then the things you can ask/answer are the same + some additions by Imoen. (Something is missing here, IMO, it's like she's forgotten what's just happened – the PC should be able to answer her at the beginning about standing with a clap mouth)
- When you meet Xzar and Montaron, Imoen will tell you she's got a bad feeling about them.
- When you find Gorion's corpse, Imoen will come to you and discuss with you... According to your answers, you may bury Gorion. Xzar and Montaron also speak.
- You can click on Xzar or Montaron to get the general list of questions/answers.
- When you meet Chase (the guy with suicidal tendencies), Imoen speaks first, then you get the classical possible answers, then a new answer from Chase and another one by Imoen if you acted well (I didn't test the other answers for now). Something is missing here again : the PC should be able to speak to Imoen before answering to Chase.
- When you meet Binkos the messenger, Imoen comments about the raided caravans.
- Funny dialog between Imoen and Montaron as the latter prepares squirrels to cook them.
- portraits have been added for Sarevok and Chase
- the party encounters a dire wolf
- Imoen comes to speak to the PC a second time : dunno if this is based on a timer or on a particular location on the map ?
IMO this map should start with a cutscene of the PC asleep, just moments before he/she wakes up. We see the PC call his/her father's name... Then he/she wakes up, lying among the trees, slowly gathering what happened, that it wasn't all a dream... And then Imoen greats him/her (we may suppose she reached the place as the PC was sleeping) . She says she's sorry for what happened (the original dialog) but then there are a few more interractions between her and the PC...
Comments
What I would like to see are things like more choices and consequences, different ways to solve problems besides inevitable combat (and I know there are some...) that reward the same xp as combat does, and the implementation of non combat statistics being important for non combat purposes (i.e. raising a characters intelligence not to get more spells, but because it will open up a wealth of new dialogue options, possibly allowing you to get more quests or beat an opponent at a game of wits, or a high charisma allowing you to smooth talk your way out of a fight). These things, as well as different possible endings (not just a single ending followed by a single choice at the end of ToB. Obviously this stuff can't be put into BG:EE because it changes far too much, but it is the one thing that I ever felt was lacking from the Baldur's Gate games (although they are still my favorite games, close seconds being Fallout 1&2, and PS:T). These things, though, can hopefully be put into BG3 if they do end up making one and possibly other titles they end up releasing. Sorry, I know this was off topic, just thought I'd share lol.
I'd also like to see more choices and consequences... As for being able to solve a problem by talking the smart way in case of fighting, there's one really good example, afair it's in Nashkel but sadly I've forgotten the names of the two guys in the inn... AFAIR, you even earned more XPs if you managed to calm the guy down in case of killing him.
I'm really not sure as for the location of the guy, yeah, might be in Beregost actually. I'll see when I get there in my new game.
Ooops my mistake, thought you were talking about noober
I think you're thinking about an encounter in Beregost, but I can't remember the name of the NPC either >.<
Ah, found it thanks to dudleyville.com : "Marl and Dunkin"
http://www.forgottenwars.com/bg1/ar3300.htm
And indeed it's in Beregost in the Feldepost's inn.
These of you knowing this mod, should I have got more new dialogs?
"The BG1NPC Project: Banters, Quests, and Interjections
This component adds intra-party banters to BG NPCs. Each joinable NPC banters with every other joinable NPC and with the player character. It also adds interjections, scenery dialogue, encounters and quests for the NPCs . Kagain, Coran, Garrick, Kivan, Dynaheir, Xzar, Jaheira, Tiax, and Xan have custom personal quests. Additional small 'Easter Egg' encounters are also included. "
BG1NPC Project also allows for PC initiated dialogue so that you can start conversations with NPCs. I the added dialogue regarding Gorion's death isn't happening then either the mod didn't install correctly, or I'm mistaken about BG1NPC adding it, there are a couple of other mods (such as unfinished business and a couple of other dialogue/banter mods) that I generally install, so it's possible that it's a component of one of them.
@Yorleen : as far as I read your suggestions, I agree with them. In my opinion, the background at the beginning at the game is not deep enough, and I always found this was a pity, as the rest of the game is full of stuff like these (many funny dialogs, many characters, and so on...).
I never tried the mod "Check the bodies", but I think, at the beginning at least, it speaks of Candlekeep. Maybe some ideas could be implemented in BGEE ?
But, yeah, for me this is a good idea. Background in a rpg is as important as playability (if not more), and more than graphisms... no, I'm not speaking of Dragon Age *angel face*
PS : poor English too...
I really enjoyed Dragon Age's graphics but I'm also very fond of BG's isometric view. It's 2 different styles of gaming (though sometimes I did use the isometric view in DA as we could), I enjoy them both. One thing I noticed is that with BG's view, my eyes get less tired than with 3D (I'm a webdesigner/photographer btw, so I spent already way too much time on a computer screen during the day)...
I like the feeling of emergency you get from start.
Actually I always play good characters so I generally have answers matching my PC but I can imagine neutral and evil characters may find it difficult sometimes. I also meant adding some more possibilities for them.
I sometimes wonder if Mister Trent&co have been considering if it would be an idea to go through these mods and try packing some of them along as optional content.
In highly unlikely event there are people on this forum not familiar withGibberlings 3 and the Pocket Plane already,
http://www.pocketplane.net/mambo/index.php?option=content&task=blogcategory&id=134&Itemid=94
http://gibberlings3.net/
I've learned to see these pages as a highly essential part of a BG1 playthrough:p
Still, I believe adding a few extra lines right when Imoen meets you in the morning, as the PC awakes, wouldn't hurt, for the post-Gorion's death part.
Anyway, wanted to thank these who recommanded the BG1 NPC Pack to me.
Thanks for the link Stradlin, gonna check it out!
I don't see a problem with posting it here if you want.
The following will be listing the cool additions brought to us by the NPC Pack. I'll also add my comments in white italic. If I forgot anything, please don't hesitate to let me know !
** Differences between BG1 + TotSC and BGT + BG1 NPC Pack **
1. Candlekeep
- A new dialog is added with the couple of nobles at the inn (they shouldn't know the PC's name as it looks like they first met).
- Portraits have been added for some characters : Winthrop, Firebead, Gatewarden, Obe and Gorion
All other dialogs are the same. IMO the game should start in the library, the PC trying to study with his tutor but unable to focus... Gorion comes to the PC and asks him/her to join him in his room, we see the discussion between them. Imoen comes and meet the PC once he gets out of the library. Afterwards, in case of going to Winthrop's, she goes to the gate and dreams of adventure... Winthrop will ask the PC where she is, he can get her...
2. Sword Coast
- Once Imoen has joined the party, you can click on her to talk with her. The first time she'll ask you how you are doing... The next times, you'll get general questions/answers.
- When you meet the wandering guy, Kolssed, Imoen initiate the dialog with him and then the things you can ask/answer are the same + some additions by Imoen. (Something is missing here, IMO, it's like she's forgotten what's just happened – the PC should be able to answer her at the beginning about standing with a clap mouth)
- When you meet Xzar and Montaron, Imoen will tell you she's got a bad feeling about them.
- When you find Gorion's corpse, Imoen will come to you and discuss with you... According to your answers, you may bury Gorion. Xzar and Montaron also speak.
- You can click on Xzar or Montaron to get the general list of questions/answers.
- When you meet Chase (the guy with suicidal tendencies), Imoen speaks first, then you get the classical possible answers, then a new answer from Chase and another one by Imoen if you acted well (I didn't test the other answers for now). Something is missing here again : the PC should be able to speak to Imoen before answering to Chase.
- When you meet Binkos the messenger, Imoen comments about the raided caravans.
- Funny dialog between Imoen and Montaron as the latter prepares squirrels to cook them.
- portraits have been added for Sarevok and Chase
- the party encounters a dire wolf
- Imoen comes to speak to the PC a second time : dunno if this is based on a timer or on a particular location on the map ?
IMO this map should start with a cutscene of the PC asleep, just moments before he/she wakes up. We see the PC call his/her father's name... Then he/she wakes up, lying among the trees, slowly gathering what happened, that it wasn't all a dream... And then Imoen greats him/her (we may suppose she reached the place as the PC was sleeping) . She says she's sorry for what happened (the original dialog) but then there are a few more interractions between her and the PC...