Unless, what, you're arguing that progressives shouldn't be allowed to make games?
Make you're own damn games then and score all the political points you want, don't take my beloved Baldur's gate and turn it into orgy of 'progressiveness'
You're in luck, because nobody has done anything to "your" beloved Baldur's Gate. It's right here for 10 bucks:
You can literally play it right now and forever in its unaltered form. What are you so angry about?
They did mess around with the EE versions, though. Having a hard time playing it now due to the cartoony sprites (not the black outline thing).
I can't tell the difference myself, but that's actually a legitimate criticism. SoD has not altered the narrative content of BG:EE, however.
Quite right. The game is exactly like it used to be when it comes to the content. I think the colour thing on the sprites is messing with my colourblindness, to be honest. Characters looks copied and pasted onto a background that is not in "style" with the sprites. I requested a toggle, a while back. But never heard any official response on it. The game looked perfect before the last patch. Not sure what the point was in changing it.
Quite right. The game is exactly like it used to be when it comes to the content. I think the colour thing on the sprites is messing with my colourblindness, to be honest. Characters looks copied and pasted onto a background that is not in "style" with the sprites. I requested a toggle, a while back. But never heard any official response on it. The game looked perfect before the last patch. Not sure what the point was in changing it.
A linear scaling toggle is up there as a feature request. I hope we see a toggle in the future.
Unless there is a way to downgrade the game to the previous patch, I am pretty much screwed. Can't play the game at all anymore. Going to have to request my money back or something.
Quite right. The game is exactly like it used to be when it comes to the content. I think the colour thing on the sprites is messing with my colourblindness, to be honest. Characters looks copied and pasted onto a background that is not in "style" with the sprites. I requested a toggle, a while back. But never heard any official response on it. The game looked perfect before the last patch. Not sure what the point was in changing it.
A linear scaling toggle is up there as a feature request. I hope we see a toggle in the future.
Unless there is a way to downgrade the game to the previous patch, I am pretty much screwed. Can't play the game at all anymore. Going to have to request my money back or something.
I don't know offhand how to downgrade to the previous patch, but I know people have done it. Check around on the Troubleshooting and Dragonspear boards to see or make a new thread in Troubleshooting.
As it is, it may be a while before they get to a scaling toggle. The next patch doesn't seem to include it.
I looked. It seems the only working option is actually pirating a previous version of the game and not updating it once installed. If I uninstall the game and install it again, I am back where I started. Since the game you download from the Beamdog store is fully patched...And I would lose the savegames in any case, since they are patched.
Quite right. The game is exactly like it used to be when it comes to the content. I think the colour thing on the sprites is messing with my colourblindness, to be honest. Characters looks copied and pasted onto a background that is not in "style" with the sprites. I requested a toggle, a while back. But never heard any official response on it. The game looked perfect before the last patch. Not sure what the point was in changing it.
A linear scaling toggle is up there as a feature request. I hope we see a toggle in the future.
Unless there is a way to downgrade the game to the previous patch, I am pretty much screwed. Can't play the game at all anymore. Going to have to request my money back or something.
I don't know offhand how to downgrade to the previous patch, but I know people have done it. Check around on the Troubleshooting and Dragonspear boards to see or make a new thread in Troubleshooting.
As it is, it may be a while before they get to a scaling toggle. The next patch doesn't seem to include it.
I looked. It seems the only working option is actually pirating a previous version of the game and not updating it once installed. If I uninstall the game and install it again, I am back where I started. Since the game you download from the Beamdog store is fully patched...And I would lose the savegames in any case, since they are patched.
Please let's not bring piracy into the discussion. That's my least favorite reason to ban people.
You can request a Steam key from support that will let you downgrade using Steam's Beta system. We're looking into ways we can offer that same functionality on Beamdog but there's no current timeline (most resources are going toward fixing the bugs). In the meantime, that's the solution we have available.
Quite right. The game is exactly like it used to be when it comes to the content. I think the colour thing on the sprites is messing with my colourblindness, to be honest. Characters looks copied and pasted onto a background that is not in "style" with the sprites. I requested a toggle, a while back. But never heard any official response on it. The game looked perfect before the last patch. Not sure what the point was in changing it.
A linear scaling toggle is up there as a feature request. I hope we see a toggle in the future.
Unless there is a way to downgrade the game to the previous patch, I am pretty much screwed. Can't play the game at all anymore. Going to have to request my money back or something.
I don't know offhand how to downgrade to the previous patch, but I know people have done it. Check around on the Troubleshooting and Dragonspear boards to see or make a new thread in Troubleshooting.
As it is, it may be a while before they get to a scaling toggle. The next patch doesn't seem to include it.
I looked. It seems the only working option is actually pirating a previous version of the game and not updating it once installed. If I uninstall the game and install it again, I am back where I started. Since the game you download from the Beamdog store is fully patched...And I would lose the savegames in any case, since they are patched.
Please let's not bring piracy into the discussion. That's my least favorite reason to ban people.
You can request a Steam key from support that will let you downgrade using Steam's Beta system. We're looking into ways we can offer that same functionality on Beamdog but there's no current timeline (most resources are going toward fixing the bugs). In the meantime, that's the solution we have available.
So what you are saying is that no matter what I do, I have 3.5 complete playthroughs of the game complete screwed up. Since the savegames got patched too.
You could just put the unpatched version up for download, and each patch as a separate download.
In the future you guys might want to consider that some customers are colourblind in various degrees. Diversity is a key word these days, after all.
I respect Trent Oster. I really do. Everytime I see his name. The first thing I think of is; Neverwinter Nights. A game that I've spent more hours than anything else in my life. The story itself in NWN wasn't really special, but my god that game was fantastic. If I still had my Xfire profile around to show my "overall hours" recorded. I had more hours in that game than World of Warcraft. Iam serious. Not because of the single-player, but the community and multiplayer kept the game alive for so long. With awesome custom fan stories, servers... even worlds. (Hello, Arelith)
Still, I find this interview more as weak defense and excuse for "Siege of Dragonspear". There's nothing wrong to be proud of your work and Iam not going to beat a dead horse here to explain every issue I had with the expansion that has been said thousands of times before. I feel the negative feedback is way too much focused in Mizhena, Minsc, SJWvsGG-stuff... but what about the real feedback that actually matters? The sloppy writing and... bugs that still haven't been fixed?
This one line however, left me confused.
"We put an arbitrary limit on our writers for our support characters of just three nodes deep, just to control wordcount. Siege of Dragonspear is over 500,000 words of dialogue, so we had to put limits on writers so they didn’t create more."
Just... why? Why limit your writers like that? Because of the budget? Or am I just misunderstanding the whole picture here? Is it because I just don't understand game development and writing enough? Iam confused...
I respect Trent Oster. I really do. Everytime I see his name. The first thing I think of is; Neverwinter Nights. A game that I've spent more hours than anything else in my life. The story itself in NWN wasn't really special, but my god that game was fantastic. If I still had my Xfire profile around to show my "overall hours" recorded. I had more hours in that game than World of Warcraft. Iam serious. Not because of the single-player, but the community and multiplayer kept the game alive for so long. With awesome custom fan stories, servers... even worlds. (Hello, Arelith)
Still, I find this interview more as weak defense and excuse for "Siege of Dragonspear". There's nothing wrong to be proud of your work and Iam not going to beat a dead horse here to explain every issue I had with the expansion that has been said thousands of times before. I feel the negative feedback is way too much focused in Mizhena, Minsc, SJWvsGG-stuff... but what about the real feedback that actually matters? The sloppy writing and... bugs that still haven't been fixed?
This one line however, left me confused.
"We put an arbitrary limit on our writers for our support characters of just three nodes deep, just to control wordcount. Siege of Dragonspear is over 500,000 words of dialogue, so we had to put limits on writers so they didn’t create more."
Just... why? Why limit your writers like that? Because of the budget? Or am I just misunderstanding the whole picture here? Is it because I just don't understand game development and writing enough? Iam confused...
So that the writers don't go nuts and get carried away, giving every minor NPC a whole dialogue tree is what I would imagine. Also time and money are a factor generally. Good question friend.
I respect Trent Oster. I really do. Everytime I see his name. The first thing I think of is; Neverwinter Nights. A game that I've spent more hours than anything else in my life. The story itself in NWN wasn't really special, but my god that game was fantastic. If I still had my Xfire profile around to show my "overall hours" recorded. I had more hours in that game than World of Warcraft. Iam serious. Not because of the single-player, but the community and multiplayer kept the game alive for so long. With awesome custom fan stories, servers... even worlds. (Hello, Arelith)
Still, I find this interview more as weak defense and excuse for "Siege of Dragonspear". There's nothing wrong to be proud of your work and Iam not going to beat a dead horse here to explain every issue I had with the expansion that has been said thousands of times before. I feel the negative feedback is way too much focused in Mizhena, Minsc, SJWvsGG-stuff... but what about the real feedback that actually matters? The sloppy writing and... bugs that still haven't been fixed?
This one line however, left me confused.
"We put an arbitrary limit on our writers for our support characters of just three nodes deep, just to control wordcount. Siege of Dragonspear is over 500,000 words of dialogue, so we had to put limits on writers so they didn’t create more."
Just... why? Why limit your writers like that? Because of the budget? Or am I just misunderstanding the whole picture here? Is it because I just don't understand game development and writing enough? Iam confused...
Deeper dialogue paths tend to create exponentially branching dialogues, especially when you're trying to provide options to satisfy six alignments. Depth restrictions are common in a lot of RPGs, not just the BG series.
I respect Trent Oster. I really do. Everytime I see his name. The first thing I think of is; Neverwinter Nights. A game that I've spent more hours than anything else in my life. The story itself in NWN wasn't really special, but my god that game was fantastic. If I still had my Xfire profile around to show my "overall hours" recorded. I had more hours in that game than World of Warcraft. Iam serious. Not because of the single-player, but the community and multiplayer kept the game alive for so long. With awesome custom fan stories, servers... even worlds. (Hello, Arelith)
Still, I find this interview more as weak defense and excuse for "Siege of Dragonspear". There's nothing wrong to be proud of your work and Iam not going to beat a dead horse here to explain every issue I had with the expansion that has been said thousands of times before. I feel the negative feedback is way too much focused in Mizhena, Minsc, SJWvsGG-stuff... but what about the real feedback that actually matters? The sloppy writing and... bugs that still haven't been fixed?
Most of the official responses you'll see from Beamdog about this whole situation are in reference to the targeted negativity being directed toward specific members of the team, or anti-LGBT sentiments being expressed on social media and on certain forums (or in certain threads on this forum). Our goal is not to diminish the real criticisms that people have, but to address the parts of the conversation that are eating up, as TotalBrit put it, "valuable brain cycles".
So to put it another way: If the complaints you have expressed were with bugs, or with the direction of the story, or with the quality of the writing in general, these statements are probably not talking about you.
This one line however, left me confused.
"We put an arbitrary limit on our writers for our support characters of just three nodes deep, just to control wordcount. Siege of Dragonspear is over 500,000 words of dialogue, so we had to put limits on writers so they didn’t create more."
Just... why? Why limit your writers like that? Because of the budget? Or am I just misunderstanding the whole picture here? Is it because I just don't understand game development and writing enough? Iam confused...
It's largely a dev thing--setting a standard for style so that the writers can avoid going down rabbit holes where they don't need to. In Mizhena's case, it's an NPC that has relatively little consequence, so there's not much justification for a writer to say "I think we really need more than three nodes of dialogue to address the complexity of this minor character's backstory." If the writers had that conversation about every NPC, the game might have three times as many words as it does now, all of them in little optional conversations that don't necessarily add to the story.
In the future you guys might want to consider that some customers are colourblind in various degrees.
I'm sure they will from now on! I hope they are able to help you resolve your situation and that you'll be able to enjoy the EEs once again.
Still lost 300 hours+ of playthroughs. If I manage to downgrade the patch, I don't think it will work for the savegames (usually doesn't). I think I will just return to the good old versions and try and forget the whole mess.
The transgender people I know are not going to blurt that out as quickly as that – it’s going to take a while, you’re going to have to get to know them.
LOL
Man in a dress and wig-"Trent we've known each other for a few weeks now and I think you should know something"
Trent-"ohh errr ummm what could this be I errrr"
Man in a dress and wig-"I wasn't actually born a woman"
Trent-"reeeeeeaaaaallyy oh I would have never of guessed well thanks for letting me know".
'Chuckles'
Cute. But, there are plenty of trans people who actually look like the gender they've changed over to. And in a world like Faerun, there could literally be zero physical evidence to the contrary.
The Mizhena thing is no big deal - the three menu dialogue limit is sensible. I've heard people complaining about how they don't have an 'offensive' dialogue option response. Maybe add an optional patch to permit a response: "I am an insecure, narrow-minded bigot. You are not a woman because..." [I'm not sure how to finish because there is no religion against this in the Forgotten Realms] This is sarcasm
Unless, what, you're arguing that progressives shouldn't be allowed to make games?
Make you're own damn games then and score all the political points you want, don't take my beloved Baldur's gate and turn it into orgy of 'progressiveness'
You're in luck, because nobody has done anything to "your" beloved Baldur's Gate. It's right here for 10 bucks:
I respect Trent Oster. I really do. Everytime I see his name. The first thing I think of is; Neverwinter Nights. A game that I've spent more hours than anything else in my life. The story itself in NWN wasn't really special, but my god that game was fantastic. If I still had my Xfire profile around to show my "overall hours" recorded. I had more hours in that game than World of Warcraft. Iam serious. Not because of the single-player, but the community and multiplayer kept the game alive for so long. With awesome custom fan stories, servers... even worlds. (Hello, Arelith)
Still, I find this interview more as weak defense and excuse for "Siege of Dragonspear". There's nothing wrong to be proud of your work and Iam not going to beat a dead horse here to explain every issue I had with the expansion that has been said thousands of times before. I feel the negative feedback is way too much focused in Mizhena, Minsc, SJWvsGG-stuff... but what about the real feedback that actually matters? The sloppy writing and... bugs that still haven't been fixed?
Most of the official responses you'll see from Beamdog about this whole situation are in reference to the targeted negativity being directed toward specific members of the team, or anti-LGBT sentiments being expressed on social media and on certain forums (or in certain threads on this forum). Our goal is not to diminish the real criticisms that people have, but to address the parts of the conversation that are eating up, as TotalBrit put it, "valuable brain cycles".
So to put it another way: If the complaints you have expressed were with bugs, or with the direction of the story, or with the quality of the writing in general, these statements are probably not talking about you.
This one line however, left me confused.
"We put an arbitrary limit on our writers for our support characters of just three nodes deep, just to control wordcount. Siege of Dragonspear is over 500,000 words of dialogue, so we had to put limits on writers so they didn’t create more."
Just... why? Why limit your writers like that? Because of the budget? Or am I just misunderstanding the whole picture here? Is it because I just don't understand game development and writing enough? Iam confused...
It's largely a dev thing--setting a standard for style so that the writers can avoid going down rabbit holes where they don't need to. In Mizhena's case, it's an NPC that has relatively little consequence, so there's not much justification for a writer to say "I think we really need more than three nodes of dialogue to address the complexity of this minor character's backstory." If the writers had that conversation about every NPC, the game might have three times as many words as it does now, all of them in little optional conversations that don't necessarily add to the story.
So what about a standard for quality. We cannot justly flesh this character out in 3 lines, let's take this out for now. I just cannot fathom how this was not discussed and how Beamdog could not get to this conclusion?
Unless, what, you're arguing that progressives shouldn't be allowed to make games?
Make you're own damn games then and score all the political points you want, don't take my beloved Baldur's gate and turn it into orgy of 'progressiveness'
You're in luck, because nobody has done anything to "your" beloved Baldur's Gate. It's right here for 10 bucks:
Had to chuckle a few times, but I guess I can agree with the overall sentiment - especially the part about people living in their own little world.
But lets be real here. The argument: "Upon my review of the character, I think that within three lines it’s actually quite well done.", is ridiculous. Anything is 'good', as long as you set enough arbitrair rules for yourself. It's like saying: I think this piece I wrote is pretty good for something I made myself write in 5 minutes. Sure, it might not be absolutely horrible, but if you had given yourself 10,20 or 30 minutes, the piece might have been much better.
If you can't integrate a topic well into your story, regardless of the rules you created for yourself, don't put it in. It doesn't matter if it's good for something written within said rules, it matter if it's good regardless of those rules.
I can totally see it. - "so what do you think?" + "it's okay I guess, but it doesn't feel quite right" - "Remember I only had 3 lines!" + "Yea, I don't see how this can be done any better within 3 lines. Lets put it in!"
For me it's either: 1. You think it's done well, so you put it in - and also leave it in after all complaints (you think it's done well after all). or 2. It can't be done properly in 3 lines so you leave it out.
Sure people can make mistakes. But please stop making excuses. What's happening here is rather weak sauce in my eyes.
As for the progressive world view, it does make me think. Beamdog is/was in a unique situation. If they were making a new game, I'd 100% agree with Trent. The game is however 17-18 years old, and the 'progressive' issues from than are not the same as now. And to see the focus all the sudden be on different issues in a game that is suppose to play in between 2 games that have the feel of 17-18 years ago, is rather odd.
It just takes me out of the experience. It gives me the same feeling that those kickstarter entries in Pillars of Eternity gave me. It just doesn't quite fit. And it's exactly that moment that take me out of the experience and makes me take a tiny step back and think:"that doesn't quite fit". That's the moment you've taken your personal views and agenda to far.
Mizhena's integration into the story is fine and follows the same guidelines that had to be followed for all of the other less important NPCs. In response to criticisms such as @Johan332's, Mizhena is getting a bit of an overhaul for more depth, which is a good thing.
For me it's either: 1. You think it's done well, so you put it in - and also leave it in after all complaints (you think it's done well after all). or 2. It can't be done properly in 3 lines so you leave it out.
Perhaps you are right, but I can't help but think that that approach may leave out a lot of richness in the game world because everyone's secondguessing themselves. For instance, do you remember that the Mirrorshades were former adventurers who claimed the inn by killing its previous owner, a priest of Bhaal, during the Time of Troubles? Their maid just blurted it out during casual conversation. Unfortunately, I was unable to hear any more stories of their adventuring days, although I was dying of curiosity and hoping for some tips.
Had to chuckle a few times, but I guess I can agree with the overall sentiment - especially the part about people living in their own little world.
As for the progressive world view, it does make me think. Beamdog is/was in a unique situation. If they were making a new game, I'd 100% agree with Trent. The game is however 17-18 years old, and the 'progressive' issues from than are not the same as now. And to see the focus all the sudden be on different issues in a game that is suppose to play in between 2 games that have the feel of 17-18 years ago, is rather odd.
It just takes me out of the experience. It gives me the same feeling that those kickstarter entries in Pillars of Eternity gave me. It just doesn't quite fit. And it's exactly that moment that take me out of the experience and makes me take a tiny step back and think:"that doesn't quite fit". That's the moment you've taken your personal views and agenda to far.
I agree with you that the character's disclosure of being trans was not well implemented, and Trent's defense of, "well, it was as good as we could do with the space we had" is somewhat disappointing.
But first, I'd probably have been too angry at the attacks on certain members of the development team to have apologized in the first place, and second, I disagree that Beamdog have an obligation to limit themselves to content you (or anyone, for that matter) deem consistent with the "classic" Baldur's Gate. I had no problem with the fact that Mizhena is trans; that she told me "3-nodes" in was a bad decision, because it seemed forced and awkward. It Maybe if the disclosure had been done more gracefully - maybe one of the new NPCs, who have more than "3-nodes" of dialog, is trans - it might have gone over bette.... Wait, what the hell am I saying? That would have angered most of the same people who showed up here and at other websites bitching about SJWs even more, wouldn't it?
So Beamdog are damned if they do, and damned if they don't. What a world.
I just hope that Beamdog get to make more games like SoD. Because I really liked it, and would happily purchase another.
I respect Trent Oster. I really do. Everytime I see his name. The first thing I think of is; Neverwinter Nights. A game that I've spent more hours than anything else in my life. The story itself in NWN wasn't really special, but my god that game was fantastic. If I still had my Xfire profile around to show my "overall hours" recorded. I had more hours in that game than World of Warcraft. Iam serious. Not because of the single-player, but the community and multiplayer kept the game alive for so long. With awesome custom fan stories, servers... even worlds. (Hello, Arelith)
Still, I find this interview more as weak defense and excuse for "Siege of Dragonspear". There's nothing wrong to be proud of your work and Iam not going to beat a dead horse here to explain every issue I had with the expansion that has been said thousands of times before. I feel the negative feedback is way too much focused in Mizhena, Minsc, SJWvsGG-stuff... but what about the real feedback that actually matters? The sloppy writing and... bugs that still haven't been fixed?
Most of the official responses you'll see from Beamdog about this whole situation are in reference to the targeted negativity being directed toward specific members of the team, or anti-LGBT sentiments being expressed on social media and on certain forums (or in certain threads on this forum). Our goal is not to diminish the real criticisms that people have, but to address the parts of the conversation that are eating up, as TotalBrit put it, "valuable brain cycles".
So to put it another way: If the complaints you have expressed were with bugs, or with the direction of the story, or with the quality of the writing in general, these statements are probably not talking about you.
This one line however, left me confused.
"We put an arbitrary limit on our writers for our support characters of just three nodes deep, just to control wordcount. Siege of Dragonspear is over 500,000 words of dialogue, so we had to put limits on writers so they didn’t create more."
Just... why? Why limit your writers like that? Because of the budget? Or am I just misunderstanding the whole picture here? Is it because I just don't understand game development and writing enough? Iam confused...
It's largely a dev thing--setting a standard for style so that the writers can avoid going down rabbit holes where they don't need to. In Mizhena's case, it's an NPC that has relatively little consequence, so there's not much justification for a writer to say "I think we really need more than three nodes of dialogue to address the complexity of this minor character's backstory." If the writers had that conversation about every NPC, the game might have three times as many words as it does now, all of them in little optional conversations that don't necessarily add to the story.
So what about a standard for quality. We cannot justly flesh this character out in 3 lines, let's take this out for now. I just cannot fathom how this was not discussed and how Beamdog could not get to this conclusion?
You're aware that Mizhena has additional character development and three side quests related to her, right? That's more than anyone else at the Coalition camp, I believe – how much more fleshed out does she have to be before she stops feeling like a "forced token" to people?
If the argument is that she shouldn't be defined by her transness: again, this is a world where *most* characters are diluted down to a single feature. People walk up to you and tell you about their religions, occupations, upcoming Bioware titles, murderous inclinations, desires to rule the world, whether or not they believe themselves to be a "fine looking strumpet," and whether or not they have a blade with your name on it with little or no prompting from the player. Non party members are almost universally SHALLOW. If we're going to set a different standard for trans characters, we need to take a really hard look at ourselves and ask why.
If the argument is that she shouldn't be defined by her transness: again, this is a world where *most* characters are diluted down to a single feature. People walk up to you and tell you about their religions, occupations, upcoming Bioware titles, murderous inclinations, desires to rule the world, whether or not they believe themselves to be a "fine looking strumpet," and whether or not they have a blade with your name on it with little or no prompting from the player. Non party members are almost universally SHALLOW. If we're going to set a different standard for trans characters, we need to take a really hard look at ourselves and ask why.
Tell me about it. I was in Nashkel the other day and some bald guy walks up to me and starts telling me all about his goddess Selune. Maybe I don't want to have Moonmaiden propaganda shoved down my throat?!
Thanks for the update Trent and good response. Anything addeed to the game can only be a good thing And 3 lines , wow i did not know that, live and learn.
Still thinking there no problem with the Mizhena tree-dialogue. I'm a bit sad by the fact they think of making her name's story a big deal, it was really refreashing thinking trans character doesn't have to fear about sharing their story. I wait and see for the outcome in all case, maybe I missread the thing.
“The other is that the character goes from ‘Hi, how are you doing?’ to ‘I’m transgender’ in three conversation lines.
Oh my, if writing it like that in an interview, some more people will get a wrong impression. To make it clear, Mizhena doesn't use the term "transgender" when you specifically show interest in her name, but leaves it to the reader how far to take her little story:
When I was born, my parents thought me a boy and raised me as such. In time, we all came to understand I was truly a woman. I created my new name from syllables of different languages. All have special meaning to me; it is the truest reflection of who I am."
No details beyond that are known, not even a description of her clothes/armor/outfit, hair style, figure, and visual appearance. Éowyn had to disguise as Dernhelm. More of Mizhena's story is not told.
Mizhena clearly isn't a character that makes a big deal out of her changing gender and that's probably the way it is in the Realms so I'm not surprised she answers that way when asked twice about her name.
I've had a fair share of people ask me about my name or my family name in real life and yes I do give some details to people who are curious about it, even if it implies revealing the thought process of my parents when naming me or the familial situation, that's no big deal to me and it's no big deal to Mizhena.
The Realms clearly are a world where changing name or sex can be done pretty casually so it seems entirely logical to me that Mizhena would be casual about it. You only view it as disturbing because it is disturbing you that something so important to her character(from your point of view) would be revealed so easily when in fact the truth is that it's not important to her character from her point of view, she has no reason to be secretive about it.
Comments
You can request a Steam key from support that will let you downgrade using Steam's Beta system. We're looking into ways we can offer that same functionality on Beamdog but there's no current timeline (most resources are going toward fixing the bugs). In the meantime, that's the solution we have available.
You could just put the unpatched version up for download, and each patch as a separate download.
In the future you guys might want to consider that some customers are colourblind in various degrees. Diversity is a key word these days, after all.
Still, I find this interview more as weak defense and excuse for "Siege of Dragonspear". There's nothing wrong to be proud of your work and Iam not going to beat a dead horse here to explain every issue I had with the expansion that has been said thousands of times before. I feel the negative feedback is way too much focused in Mizhena, Minsc, SJWvsGG-stuff... but what about the real feedback that actually matters? The sloppy writing and... bugs that still haven't been fixed?
This one line however, left me confused.
"We put an arbitrary limit on our writers for our support characters of just three nodes deep, just to control wordcount. Siege of Dragonspear is over 500,000 words of dialogue, so we had to put limits on writers so they didn’t create more."
Just... why? Why limit your writers like that? Because of the budget? Or am I just misunderstanding the whole picture here? Is it because I just don't understand game development and writing enough? Iam confused...
So to put it another way: If the complaints you have expressed were with bugs, or with the direction of the story, or with the quality of the writing in general, these statements are probably not talking about you. It's largely a dev thing--setting a standard for style so that the writers can avoid going down rabbit holes where they don't need to. In Mizhena's case, it's an NPC that has relatively little consequence, so there's not much justification for a writer to say "I think we really need more than three nodes of dialogue to address the complexity of this minor character's backstory." If the writers had that conversation about every NPC, the game might have three times as many words as it does now, all of them in little optional conversations that don't necessarily add to the story.
This is sarcasm
So what about a standard for quality. We cannot justly flesh this character out in 3 lines, let's take this out for now. I just cannot fathom how this was not discussed and how Beamdog could not get to this conclusion?
But lets be real here. The argument: "Upon my review of the character, I think that within three lines it’s actually quite well done.", is ridiculous. Anything is 'good', as long as you set enough arbitrair rules for yourself.
It's like saying: I think this piece I wrote is pretty good for something I made myself write in 5 minutes. Sure, it might not be absolutely horrible, but if you had given yourself 10,20 or 30 minutes, the piece might have been much better.
If you can't integrate a topic well into your story, regardless of the rules you created for yourself, don't put it in. It doesn't matter if it's good for something written within said rules, it matter if it's good regardless of those rules.
I can totally see it.
- "so what do you think?"
+ "it's okay I guess, but it doesn't feel quite right"
- "Remember I only had 3 lines!"
+ "Yea, I don't see how this can be done any better within 3 lines. Lets put it in!"
For me it's either:
1. You think it's done well, so you put it in - and also leave it in after all complaints (you think it's done well after all).
or
2. It can't be done properly in 3 lines so you leave it out.
Sure people can make mistakes. But please stop making excuses. What's happening here is rather weak sauce in my eyes.
As for the progressive world view, it does make me think. Beamdog is/was in a unique situation. If they were making a new game, I'd 100% agree with Trent. The game is however 17-18 years old, and the 'progressive' issues from than are not the same as now. And to see the focus all the sudden be on different issues in a game that is suppose to play in between 2 games that have the feel of 17-18 years ago, is rather odd.
It just takes me out of the experience. It gives me the same feeling that those kickstarter entries in Pillars of Eternity gave me. It just doesn't quite fit. And it's exactly that moment that take me out of the experience and makes me take a tiny step back and think:"that doesn't quite fit". That's the moment you've taken your personal views and agenda to far.
But first, I'd probably have been too angry at the attacks on certain members of the development team to have apologized in the first place, and second, I disagree that Beamdog have an obligation to limit themselves to content you (or anyone, for that matter) deem consistent with the "classic" Baldur's Gate. I had no problem with the fact that Mizhena is trans; that she told me "3-nodes" in was a bad decision, because it seemed forced and awkward. It Maybe if the disclosure had been done more gracefully - maybe one of the new NPCs, who have more than "3-nodes" of dialog, is trans - it might have gone over bette.... Wait, what the hell am I saying? That would have angered most of the same people who showed up here and at other websites bitching about SJWs even more, wouldn't it?
So Beamdog are damned if they do, and damned if they don't. What a world.
I just hope that Beamdog get to make more games like SoD. Because I really liked it, and would happily purchase another.
You're aware that Mizhena has additional character development and three side quests related to her, right? That's more than anyone else at the Coalition camp, I believe – how much more fleshed out does she have to be before she stops feeling like a "forced token" to people?
If the argument is that she shouldn't be defined by her transness: again, this is a world where *most* characters are diluted down to a single feature. People walk up to you and tell you about their religions, occupations, upcoming Bioware titles, murderous inclinations, desires to rule the world, whether or not they believe themselves to be a "fine looking strumpet," and whether or not they have a blade with your name on it with little or no prompting from the player. Non party members are almost universally SHALLOW. If we're going to set a different standard for trans characters, we need to take a really hard look at ourselves and ask why.
Thank for the share.
When I was born, my parents thought me a boy and raised me as such. In time, we all came to understand I was truly a woman. I created my new name from syllables of different languages. All have special meaning to me; it is the truest reflection of who I am."
No details beyond that are known, not even a description of her clothes/armor/outfit, hair style, figure, and visual appearance. Éowyn had to disguise as Dernhelm. More of Mizhena's story is not told.
I've had a fair share of people ask me about my name or my family name in real life and yes I do give some details to people who are curious about it, even if it implies revealing the thought process of my parents when naming me or the familial situation, that's no big deal to me and it's no big deal to Mizhena.
The Realms clearly are a world where changing name or sex can be done pretty casually so it seems entirely logical to me that Mizhena would be casual about it. You only view it as disturbing because it is disturbing you that something so important to her character(from your point of view) would be revealed so easily when in fact the truth is that it's not important to her character from her point of view, she has no reason to be secretive about it.