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Bhaal's DNA

ButtercheeseButtercheese Member Posts: 3,766
Alright alright alright.

So here is a thought I had been buzzing around that weird vaguely egg shaped blob that is at the end of my neck for quite a while now.

Bhaal screwed his way all over Toril (or was it just the Swordcoast?) prior to the time of troubles, right?
With a vast array of species and races. I think it's rather save to assume that most of his children do not actually share the same DNA.

Now the question is: Why?

Of course it's the easiest to assume that Bhaal simply took a different form (almost) every time.
But what if he didn't. Maybe he went Holy Ghost on a good chunk on those ladies or he only used one/ few forms to go Gilgamesh on them.

So this is my idea: What if the Bhaalspawn are actually genetical clones of their mothers and only their souls contain Bhaal's essence?

Maybe only a few Bhaalspawn actually share Bhaal's DNA, maybe none at all.

What do you think?

Comments

  • ButtercheeseButtercheese Member Posts: 3,766
    Bhaal confirmed for Anakin Skywalker. Moving on >.>
  • Lord_TansheronLord_Tansheron Member Posts: 4,212
    I think it's difficult to tell to what degree the corporeal form of a divine avatar is influenced on a genetic level by the deity it represents. It's entirely conceivable, perhaps even likely, that each avatar is simply constructed from scratch and with no genetic relation to the next or previous, other than perhaps a tendency towards certain traits (like blond hair or blue eyes or whatever) which is a VERY loose relation at best.

    On the other hand, it's also entirely possible that the creation of an avatar imparts some divine aspect on a genetic level, that the "seed" of a deity is made manifest in some physical form and constitutes very real aspects of an avatar body. As such, the avatars would be "related" to each other in a genetic sense, on the level of something like siblings perhaps, or cousins.

    We do not know much about how Bhaal "did it" in particular, however there are hints at him actually going and "performing the act", as it were.

    IIRC Gorion's letter in Candlekeep even explicitly mentions CHARNAME's mother being raped by Bhaal, though to be fair we do find out later in ToB that Gorion made most of it up and that CHARNAME's mother was a willing participant, being a priestess of Bhaal herself.


    As to the genetic specifics, we can only speculate. What we CAN say for certain however is that:

    What if the Bhaalspawn are actually genetical clones of their mothers and only their souls contain Bhaal's essence?

    cannot be true, as there are male children of Bhaal, which by definition cannot be clones of a female. That is not to say that magic isn't involved to make a "male version" of a female clone - a quasi-clone, if you will. Anything is possible. Magic is the all-powerful joker card anyway, since you can explain away just about anything you like with it.
  • ArchaosArchaos Member Posts: 1,421
    edited April 2016
    Does it really matter?
    The books and rules don't go into detail about the reproductive cycles and properties of gods.
    And there's no really any real-world comparison we can use.

    Bhaal being a god, could very well possess another creature or take the shape (and DNA) of an existing individual or even an amalgam of individuals of that race to create an average and then use that created form to spawn children.

    After all, when you use Shapechange, you turn into a generic version of that creature.
    Biologically, not two creatures are alike. So the spell could draw from averages of that race to turn you into one.

    Now imagine what Bhaal, being a god, could do. Bhaal's DNA when it comes to Bhaalspawn could very well be the average of individuals of that race.
    Can't gods sense the presence of their followers anyway?
    If 100 elves worshipped Bhaal somewhere, he could take their average features and turn into a unique but also generic Elf. Then change their features as he liked and then do the same with all race combinations he would want.

    I like to think of this theory as that program that combines thousands of people's faces into that country's average.

    Gods' avatars on the Prime is something they literally create and shape it to their liking, sometimes they have multiple avatars.
    They have no physical body otherwise and therefore no DNA. Their essence travels in the Astral Plane.

    It's why only gods can kill other gods. One divine essence hurts the other divine essence. The physical bodies of their avatars mean nothing, so no mortal can kill them.
  • DragonKingDragonKing Member Posts: 1,979
    I'm just going to stick with my original assumption, during the trouble times (I can't remember the actual name), all gods were made mortal. But, that's all that was did, they all still possessed godly power, just now in a mortal avatar. So, Bhaal used that godly power to get all rape happy with some of the races. I mean he is a FEARED deity, who doesn't need to ask.
  • ButtercheeseButtercheese Member Posts: 3,766
    @DragonKing Except for that all the impregnating happend before the Time of Troubles. Otherwise all Bhaalspawn would be roughly 10 years old by the time BG happens.
  • illathidillathid Member Posts: 320
    One thing I was thinking about the other day is why Bhaal would creat long lived bhaalspawn, and I think I've got a good reason. Bhaal knew that he was going to die, but he didn't know when. If he exclusive mated with gerbils, they could all die before he was killed, making them effectively useless to him. So by having some longer lived bhaalspawn around he'd be covered. Thoughts?
  • Lord_TansheronLord_Tansheron Member Posts: 4,212
    illathid said:

    One thing I was thinking about the other day is why Bhaal would creat long lived bhaalspawn, and I think I've got a good reason. Bhaal knew that he was going to die, but he didn't know when. If he exclusive mated with gerbils, they could all die before he was killed, making them effectively useless to him. So by having some longer lived bhaalspawn around he'd be covered. Thoughts?

    Sounds reasonable. Always good to hedge your bets, lest some weird event eradicate an entire species or something. Also it's entirely possible that by spreading his seed wide, he wished to increase his (future) followers - since Bhaalspawn would inevitably attract attention and dominate others with their power, hopefully some of those impressed by their strength might just fall to worshiping Bhaal after his rebirth.
  • KamigoroshiKamigoroshi Member Posts: 5,870
    I view the soul as sponge. Races like gibberlings may have very short lifespans, but their soul can only absorb a small amount of divine essence. To get the most out of his self-resurrection plan, Bhaal would most likely want souls that can store large amounts of his essence in one sitting. But at the same time races that produce the highest soul quality grow up very, very slowly. Which is probably why Abazigal is the only dragon amongst the Bhaalspawn.

    Then again, seeing as Bhaal sired a bloody chinchilla, he probably indeed hit on anything. Even gerbils. Heck, it wouldn't surprise me if even Boo had a great-great Bhaalspawn grandparent in his family tree. *shrugs*
  • DragonKingDragonKing Member Posts: 1,979
    @Buttercheese
    So a godly being with godly powers raped and impregnated mortal beings. I mean, can you say Zeus? Poseidon? Hades? Quetzalcoatl? (ok, it was his sister and he was tricked >.>) Well, unlike Zeus, he didn't transform into different animals and had his fun.

    I think I lost track here, so whether it was before, after, or during. I'm just going to stick with the assumption he just went all rape-y. He's a god, he could've shaped his children on a genetic level anyway he saw fit honestly.
  • KamigoroshiKamigoroshi Member Posts: 5,870
    Grum said:

    Fun fact, Bhaal foresaw his death and decided to just have a good time. When he was caught he came up with this "prophecy" as a way to save face. All of the rituals and fighting and whatnot came about, sure. But none of it was ever Bhaal's intention, it was just a way to avoid further embarrassment.

    Sounds legit.
  • ButtercheeseButtercheese Member Posts: 3,766
    I thought Bhaal and Bane were married.
  • Lord_TansheronLord_Tansheron Member Posts: 4,212

    I thought Bhaal and Bane were married.

    Ao doesn't recognize uncivil unions.
  • ButtercheeseButtercheese Member Posts: 3,766
    edited April 2016
    They aren't civilists, they are gods o.o
    Pardon: Used to be gods.
  • marzbarzmarzbarz Member Posts: 187
    I think your over complicating it. Some crazy god of murder just wanted to go rape happy to preserve his essence before he was gone and be reborn eventually in the final Bhaalspawn. This would allow him to stay forever I guess as he would be unchallenged by any other species/all the b-spawn are dead by then.

    Maybe he couldn't get to this plane of existence anymore without that kinda link to the world through whatever, maybe its like that move The One where the spawn are destined to kill each other until one remains and he's then able to control/embody that as its closer to his abilities/is only when he can do it, or he could have also not existed on this plane very long and thus added the essence as much as possible before forcefully leaving? Dunno the rules for gods and if/how long they can stay around in their full godly power, but I like that last one personally lol.
  • EmpyrialEmpyrial Member Posts: 107
    Archaos said:

    Does it really matter?
    The books and rules don't go into detail about the reproductive cycles and properties of gods.
    And there's no really any real-world comparison we can use.

    Bhaal being a god, could very well possess another creature or take the shape (and DNA) of an existing individual or even an amalgam of individuals of that race to create an average and then use that created form to spawn children.

    After all, when you use Shapechange, you turn into a generic version of that creature.
    Biologically, not two creatures are alike. So the spell could draw from averages of that race to turn you into one.

    Now imagine what Bhaal, being a god, could do. Bhaal's DNA when it comes to Bhaalspawn could very well be the average of individuals of that race.
    Can't gods sense the presence of their followers anyway?
    If 100 elves worshipped Bhaal somewhere, he could take their average features and turn into a unique but also generic Elf. Then change their features as he liked and then do the same with all race combinations he would want.

    I like to think of this theory as that program that combines thousands of people's faces into that country's average.

    Gods' avatars on the Prime is something they literally create and shape it to their liking, sometimes they have multiple avatars.
    They have no physical body otherwise and therefore no DNA. Their essence travels in the Astral Plane.

    It's why only gods can kill other gods. One divine essence hurts the other divine essence. The physical bodies of their avatars mean nothing, so no mortal can kill them.

    On a side note, mortals can kill gods too with the right tools. I'm also fairly certain powerful devils or demons also can. The whole seven-ish book long Lolth trilogy included a priestess of Eilistree (I can never spell her name correctly) being given a sword that can sever the head of anything. If I'm not mistaken they use it to behead Selvetarm (or he died to Vhaeraun, not sure) but I know for sure it was used to lop off Eilistree's head.
  • booinyoureyesbooinyoureyes Member Posts: 6,164
    As prolific as Bhaal may have been, none are more adept at screwing around as the almighty Zeus (praise be to his name)
  • PK2748PK2748 Member Posts: 381
    The funny but is by diluting his divine essence so prolifically, Bhaal just made it easier to kill him. Self fulfilling prophecy
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