Possiblilty of Steam Workshop for mods

ajwz

Is this potentially an option for the future? or is the engine so out of date hat steam workshop would be pointless? even if it is, it would be a good way of indexing and publicising currently working mods

illathid

ajwz said:

Is this potentially an option for the future? or is the engine so out of date hat steam workshop would be pointless? even if it is, it would be a good way of indexing and publicising currently working mods

As someone who has used workshop to host mods for other games, it has costs and benefits. As I see it, it wouldn't be as robust in detecting mod conflicts, and something like the tweak pack would probably have to be divided up into its component parts. That said, having more options on mod distribution could be good.

JuliusBorisov

During the last AMA, there was a question: "With David Gaider on board, is there any chance we can see his Throne of Bhaal mod Ascension become an official part of the BG2 expansion?" And Phillip Daigle answered: "We wouldn't implement it as the default option, but it's something we could look into. If we ever add Workshop support it would be at the top of the list."

https://www.reddit.com/r/IAmA/comments/4crqir/we_are_beamdog_the_team_behind_baldurs_gate/d1kyy81

So, Steam Workshop is something they could look at in the future.

rapsam2003

I personally do NOT want it. Why? Because the Steam workshop gives zero crap if a mod conflict completely screws up your game. Skyrim mods that altered scripts taught me this lesson the hard way.

CamDawg

Even if Workshop support gets added in the future, I wouldn't use it. It's additional work for a fraction of users that already have a superior solution in WeiDU itself.

illathid said:

As someone who has used workshop to host mods for other games, it has costs and benefits. As I see it, it wouldn't be as robust in detecting mod conflicts, and something like the tweak pack would probably have to be divided up into its component parts. That said, having more options on mod distribution could be good.

I'm still not sure that would work. Tweaks will adjust its content and patching to what's already present in the game (especially mod content). AFAICT Workshop doesn't allow this type of sophistication; it would be like the bad old days of IAP mods.

illathid

CamDawg said:

Even if Workshop support gets added in the future, I wouldn't use it. It's additional work for a fraction of users that already have a superior solution in WeiDU itself.

illathid said:

As someone who has used workshop to host mods for other games, it has costs and benefits. As I see it, it wouldn't be as robust in detecting mod conflicts, and something like the tweak pack would probably have to be divided up into its component parts. That said, having more options on mod distribution could be good.

I'm still not sure that would work. Tweaks will adjust its content and patching to what's already present in the game (especially mod content). AFAICT Workshop doesn't allow this type of sophistication; it would be like the bad old days of IAP mods.

Yeah WeiDU definitely is superior in many ways, but I can see some benefits to the Workshop too. The biggest being that it's less intimidating for a lot of users. The fact that WeiDU runs in a Command-line interface probably keeps a lot of potential users from ever trying mods.* Not saying they're right, but it's a factor. The easy to browse nature of the Workshop is helpful too. Is this all worth losing the functionality of WeiDU? Probably not.

*When the CK2 mod I'm the lead for got too big to host on the workshop it upset a lot of our fans. I still get messages everyday from people unwilling to use the mod unless it's on the the workshop.

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ajwz

subtledoctor said:

Hmm... another method of distributing mods, which would not be available to people not using Steam, and would not have the capabilities of Weidu, and would make its mods incompatible with all Weidu mods.

Sounds fantastic!

Ooh, how about the BigWorld folks internalize any mod fixes they come across, and don't share them with others, and set up BWS as the sole portal for using a different set of mods.

Yeah, then we can completely fracture the mod community forever! Where do I sign up??

I don't understand, how would it fracture the modding community?

GrimLefourbe

Hey @subtledoctor calm down, isn't the Big World fixpack available for everyone here : https://github.com/BiGWorldProject/BiG-World-Fixpack ?

I don't think using the Steam workshop as a main host for any mod is a good idea but some very simple mods (like xp cap remover) might work via Steam Workshop so why not have them available there as well.

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CamDawg

illathid said:

Yeah WeiDU definitely is superior in many ways, but I can see some benefits to the Workshop too. The biggest being that it's less intimidating for a lot of users. The fact that WeiDU runs in a Command-line interface probably keeps a lot of potential users from ever trying mods.* Not saying their right, but it's a factor.

I definitely agree with that--command line really does turn off a lot of folks. Even though most mods are just pressing y/n, there's always a substantial group of players who would like a nice frontend with some checkboxes.

The problem is that everything else about the Workshop would be a massive step back. I can't see a real win for any of the constituencies--modders, players, or devs.

CamDawg

Should have added the standard disclaimer--that's my two cents, not speaking for Beamdog, etc.

ajwz

CamDawg said:

Should have added the standard disclaimer--that's my two cents, not speaking for Beamdog, etc.

So what you're saying is that beamdog officially hates valve and cant wait for them to go under?


On a serious point though, even if not all the popular mods would be available on steam workshop, wouldnt it still be worth doing? i dont see any downside to it.
In probably the largest modding community, for the elderscrolls/fallout games, steam workshop acts as a good introduction for people who aren't computer literate enough to install mods by themselves, or people who are unaware the modding community even exists.

CamDawg

ajwz said:

CamDawg said:

Should have added the standard disclaimer--that's my two cents, not speaking for Beamdog, etc.

So what you're saying is that beamdog officially hates valve and cant wait for them to go under?

In that case, let me go ahead and confirm Half Life 3.

ajwz said:

On a serious point though, even if not all the popular mods would be available on steam workshop, wouldnt it still be worth doing? i dont see any downside to it.
In probably the largest modding community, for the elderscrolls/fallout games, steam workshop acts as a good introduction for people who aren't computer literate enough to install mods by themselves, or people who are unaware the modding community even exists.

I think Tweaks qualifies as a 'popular' mod, to borrow your term, so let's say I endeavor to make a Workshop package for BG2EE. The problem is that there are 4x10^50 different configurations* for a bogstandard BG2EE install. Even if you look at a 'simpler' mod, the problem's still ugly. BG1 NPC has over 30 components, leading to at least 2^30 options--over a billion ways to roll it out. (Exponential math is ugly; just keep this in mind every time someone requests making something optional. )

* This is accurate, yes; every couple of years I like to sit down and figure this out for my own amusement. That's a 4 followed by 50 zeroes, or more succinctly (and if I'm reading Wikipedia correctly) 400 quindecillion loadouts.

Razor

I admit I've always wanted to try some BG mods but never did. All the installing and possible problems pushed me back. I must say if it was at a distance of a "subscribe" button on steam workshop I would probably do it. And I'am confortable with installing mods an tweaking files, I just have too little time and too many games. "One day" I shall look into one of the threads here about mods...

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GrimLefourbe

At the risk of repeating myself, I think that very simple components could be added to the workshop, but definitely no support outside of "go to official website" . I'm thinking of components of bgtweaks that are based on a very low number of files to put in the override so it could help people who discovered the game through Steam and just end up going "oh, removal of exp cap, why not?" or Easy spell learning, various caps removal (traps/summons), things like that.

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