A question about THE GAME and Charisma!

DarkDogg

It's very impartant, because my favourite classes are Paladin (might be a Blackguard) and Thief (in all games).
Does CHARISMA score 18 affects the game or quest rewards or maybe some special (critical) dialog options or is it a dump stat from what you can't really benefit?
By "benefits" I mean items, expirience etc as quest rewards (BG1).
I don't mind spoiling here.
I need an advice from players who played the game (me not yet).
Thanks

Francois

There is at least one side quest that I think is influenced by Charisma (it was different when I did it myself and when I asked Safana to do it for me.)

There is a quest where you have to sing to a bunch of menhirs to activate them . When I do it myself it shoots offensive spells or summons monsters before being activated. When Safana does it, they allow to be activated without hostility.

I haven't finished the game so I thik there could be more.

PK2748

An 18 charisma does provide bonus loot a few times that can be a help and makes buying equipment cheaper

mf2112

It changes the prices in stores. Some conversation options change with it. There is a fairly early dialog with some people that has a different effect depending on your charisma. That is, you can choose the same option but it may not work with a low charisma. Fortunately, there are some easy fixes. The Friends spell for a mage gives you 6 extra points for a time. There is also a new item, Potions of Persuasiveness that give you 4 points. Friends and a potion can give you 10 points together. I believe a Paladin gets a min 17 charisma when rolling so that wouldn't be a problem there.

DarkDogg

PK2748 said:

An 18 charisma does provide bonus loot a few times that can be a help and makes buying equipment cheaper

Loot and prices is a must for high CHA, but I'm talking about special rewards (for example, you'll get some jewelry and a +1 dagger in Candlekeep in BG1 and etc.)

mf2112

In the dialog I mentioned

in the 3 old kegs upstairs, there are some nobles conspiring against the dukes. You can choose to tell them you want in on the plot. If you have less than 16 I think then they will not believe you and the conversation ends and they walk out. If you have 16 or more then the conversation continues.

Wraith_Sarevok

DarkDogg said:

PK2748 said:

An 18 charisma does provide bonus loot a few times that can be a help and makes buying equipment cheaper

Loot and prices is a must for high CHA, but I'm talking about special rewards (for example, you'll get some jewelry and a +1 dagger in Candlekeep in BG1 and etc.)

Yes. But only in a few quests. There are hundreds of them so I can never keep track which ones offer bonus rewards. You can use a walkthrough for that.

And yes it is a dump stat. Since combat + loot > quest rewards in 99% of cases.

rapsam2003

For most people, Charisma is a dump stat. There are only 2 classes that use it as their main stat: Sorcerer and Bard. Bard is typically a support class, and Sorcerer is usually not as fun as mage in the BG series.

Wraith_Sarevok

rapsam2003 said:

For most people, Charisma is a dump stat. There are only 2 classes that use it as their main stat: Sorcerer and Bard. Bard is typically a support class, and Sorcerer is usually not as fun as mage in the BG series.

That is incorrect. No class uses CHA as a stat. Sorcerers can cast spells independent of any ability score. And Bards rely on INT in order scribe scrolls. The fact that they are forced to have high minimum scores in CHA during character creation means nothing.

You are thinking of 3rd edition.

DarkDogg

Thanks guys!
It's a pity that CHA is a dump stat in 2016

BTW back to BG1. In the Firewine Bridge area just on the North there was an old man NPC who's asking you about your beliefs and gods you pray. He has a nice scroll of magic protection in his inventory, but whatever I've tried he never gave me that (if not killing him). Is there a way to convince him to give me that scroll whithout killing him? High CHA maybe?
Just curious

rapsam2003

DarkDogg said:

Thanks guys!
It's a pity that CHA is a dump stat in 2016

Correction: It was a dump stat in 2E D&D. (The BG series is based on 2nd edition D&D.) It still kind of is in 5E, for a lot of classes. But 5E D&D has warlocks (who love charisma), bards are not useless, sorcerers are much cooler than they were in 2E, and conversation skills are a thing. So, at least charisma is useful for certain classes in 5E, unlike in 2E where it only mattered if you wanted to be a less versatile wizard (*cough* 2E sorcerer *cough*)...

JuliusBorisov

DarkDogg said:

BTW back to BG1. In the Firewine Bridge area just on the North there was an old man NPC who's asking you about your beliefs and gods you pray. He has a nice scroll of magic protection in his inventory, but whatever I've tried he never gave me that (if not killing him). Is there a way to convince him to give me that scroll whithout killing him? High CHA maybe?
Just curious

No way to get it except for killing or pickpocketing Bentan (while Hafiz from Gibberling Mountains gives you this scroll with right choices).

DarkDogg

@rapsam2003

Yeah, I know. But everyone is yelling "it's 2016! it's 2016!".
I guess the devs could implement some nice ideas according to high charisma, like they (the other ones) did back in 1998. Giving extra potions or scrolls if you charisma is 18 or even you could obtain a special hidden weapon with a high CHA score... Special mentionable quest rewards etc.
Thats what I'm talking about!

rapsam2003

Well, I mean...those still exist. Although, I've yet to play a sorcerer in SoD, so...I don't know if there's any big ones in SoD. That said, I still feel like the benefits of it aren't significant enough to warrant having 18 CHA. 16 for a sorc is fine, I always felt.

Jarrakul

I've only played SOD with my 19-charisma paladin so far, but it certainly *felt* like the game was giving me dialog options that might not work as well with a lower charisma, at several points (giving a speech instead of letting Corwin handle PR, for example). Whether they actually contained charisma checks, I couldn't say.

Ardanis

There's a high number of charisma checks in dialogs in SoD. Unless you're keen on picking fights with anything that moves, playing a character with 18 charisma can be quite different from 9 charisma.

DarkDogg

Ardanis said:

There's a high number of charisma checks in dialogs in SoD. Unless you're keen on picking fights with anything that moves, playing a character with 18 charisma can be quite different from 9 charisma.

And thats all? No gifts, no special rewards?

Ardanis

Off memory, there's at least one instance of different item reward, based on charisma value, but not much. The majority of checks revolve around avoidng fights, sometimes with higher XP reward than what could be earned from combat, and finding new ways to resolve quests.

Wraith_Sarevok

Ardanis said:

There's a high number of charisma checks in dialogs in SoD. Unless you're keen on picking fights with anything that moves, playing a character with 18 charisma can be quite different from 9 charisma.

I think this was a nice addition. It doesn't fix the major design flaw with Charisma (being useless in combat), but it does try to make it feel like a flavor/RP stat that can be fun to play with, versus BG1 where it did almost nothing.

alaundo

Do these checks calculate base charisma or include also bonus one form items, spells etc.?

Illustair

@alaundo It is compared with your current stat, be it modified or not. So yes, bonuses are included. That's why I bring some friends scroll with me for my mage, in case I run out of memorized spell and item charge.

Philhelm

D&D is the opposite of real life, in which CHA is the only really important stat, followed by WIS. It's better to be 8/8/8/8/18/18 than 18/18/18/18/8/8.

illathid

Philhelm said:

D&D is the opposite of real life, in which CHA is the only really important stat, followed by WIS. It's better to be 8/8/8/8/18/18 than 18/18/18/18/8/8.

Granted real life has a lot less dragons, demons, etc.

Jarrakul

Philhelm said:

D&D is the opposite of real life, in which CHA is the only really important stat, followed by WIS. It's better to be 8/8/8/8/18/18 than 18/18/18/18/8/8.

I'd argue Intelligence and Constitution are pretty important in real life also. Strength and Dexterity not so much for most people in the modernized world.

SpaceInvader

I suppose I'm still one of the few noticing the CHA check to have the Lich siding with you

Philhelm

Jarrakul said:

Philhelm said:

D&D is the opposite of real life, in which CHA is the only really important stat, followed by WIS. It's better to be 8/8/8/8/18/18 than 18/18/18/18/8/8.

I'd argue Intelligence and Constitution are pretty important in real life also. Strength and Dexterity not so much for most people in the modernized world.

Nope. Intelligence is probably the least important attribute (by a wide margin), and actually confers Charisma penalties the higher it is. Strength and Dexterity are more important than Intelligence, since you'll at least be somewhat athletic, which usually results in a higher Charisma. I'll grant you Constitution; it should at least be average so you aren't sickly.