[REQUEST] Clarify how stat changes and tomes will work with BG EE game transfered to BG2 EE.
Debaser
Member Posts: 669
Hi,
I'm not asking for anyone to change anything (yet), I'm asking if anyone can give a definitive technical answer to how using tomes on NPC's and importing games in to BG2 EE will work?
In the original games the NPC's who were available in both games had a set of stats which all received boosts between both games. But if you used tomes in the first game or Dual Classed Imoen to something else, the tomes were transfer but without the stat boosts given in a standard BG2 game, and Imoen would be stuck as a mage either way.
My question is how tomes will be handled. I would prefer to see them stack with the BG2 stat point increases at the very least. Or alternatively for the NPC's to start off with the stats they get in BG2. I'm assuming that this is something that has come up by now since we're a couple months from release. But just in case it hasn't been brought up, it poses a problem in that I can't find a reason why stat bonuses and any tomes you choose to give strategically should both not be enjoyed. Thank you.
I'm not asking for anyone to change anything (yet), I'm asking if anyone can give a definitive technical answer to how using tomes on NPC's and importing games in to BG2 EE will work?
In the original games the NPC's who were available in both games had a set of stats which all received boosts between both games. But if you used tomes in the first game or Dual Classed Imoen to something else, the tomes were transfer but without the stat boosts given in a standard BG2 game, and Imoen would be stuck as a mage either way.
My question is how tomes will be handled. I would prefer to see them stack with the BG2 stat point increases at the very least. Or alternatively for the NPC's to start off with the stats they get in BG2. I'm assuming that this is something that has come up by now since we're a couple months from release. But just in case it hasn't been brought up, it poses a problem in that I can't find a reason why stat bonuses and any tomes you choose to give strategically should both not be enjoyed. Thank you.
5
Comments
A better plan might be to set some kind of local or global variable that marks them as being improved though this assumes that variables are exported with characters. Locals might be exported (especially with the BG2 engine) though I bet globals are not.
Anyhow, this shouldn't be much of a concern at the moment. I expect that if they do implement something like this that they'll make BG2EE first and then patch BG1EE to fit. Big or small, continuity between the two games is always worthy of consideration at least.
A little sloppier then programed continuity but you'll still be able to add points to NPCs without too much fear any way you cut it.
When you import your character into BG2 (or again into BG1), the game detects the variable on your PC that marks specific NPCs as having received a tome bonus, and applies the bonus to that NPC when you meet them. Then if you find another tome in subsequent playthroughs, you can further improve that same NPC.
It doesn't have anything to do with their classes, so Imoen will still be dual-classed at the right level, and everyone else will stay more or less the same. It also means that you can boost some of the BG1 NPCs that don't show up in BG2, allowing you to improve their stats with subsequent playthroughs as well.
Talk about increasing replay value!
ANYWHO, another option is to do a variation of the variable thing. When you use a tome on an NPC, it triggers a variable flag. That flag is NOT exported (because exporting may or may not work with variables). Instead, the exporter check for the flag. If you have it, it puts the appropriate tome into your inventory. The BG2 importer find the tomes and distributes them thoughout the first dungeon. Not perfect but yet another option.
I could be wrong about that, but I think that no matter what, Imoen always starts with the same level ratio between Thief and Mage.
Create a variable, "ImoenInt", which increments by one every time you use a Tome of Intelligence on her.
BG2 then reads that variable and increases BG2 Imoen's Intelligence score by 1.
Admittedly, this would be a lot of variables; you'd need six for each NPC in BG1, and there are a LOT of them.
Edit: This would be on the PC of course.
And part of what I like about this idea is the possibility that you could play through BG1 more than once and apply the tomes more than once, kind of like a New Game Plus.
@Aosaw idea if applicable is good of register in main char data, any specific status change on portable NPCs of BG/BG II.
I would also suggest a forced dual class on Imoen at level 7 thief to mage. Some could argue that force dual class would need some banters that would change the original content. but the original content here is exactly her dual class to mage as the entire BG II game is based on Imoen being a mage. So in this point, Beamdog should ask for special permission to add content at the moment Imoen reach lvl 7 (and Beamdog should block any attempt of dual class Imoem before level 7, too).
My last suggestion is to keep coherence, after sarevok fight if the game end in this point, or after the last game scene (if the devs use BGT style and make a banter with one of the dukes to transit the game to Baldur's Gate II) i suggest a movie to be made, that somehow join the main char with the four vanilla start NPCs of BG II, Minsc, Dynaheir, Khalid and Jaheira, even if they're not on the party.
This last idea would be cool if more than one movie is made to simulate each possible players choice, as for example:
- if you kill dynaheir for edwin, minsc appears for revenge after sarevok fight (some work in BG2 will be needed).
- If you only refused Jaheira/Khalid help at the start of the game, they would just follow you worried and in memory of gorion.
Among other examples.
Sorry to become a bit off-topic but i thought that something in this matter would be needed.
As for your movie idea, I think having epilogues for any character you were with in your BG1 after you fight Sarevok, that suggests you parted ways for a time before adventuring again would make sense because then coming back together with the cannon party members in BG2 is spelled out as the next chapter and whom you wound up teaming up with.
Either way it should be spelled out how the tomes are dealt with since most core NPC's receive a stat boost. But if you import from Vanilla BG1 to BG2, your NPC's levels are boosted, but their stats are not. (So you get tome boosts, or the boosts they would get otherwise. Which is silly)
Imoen - got nothing
Minsc - got a tome of dexterity and a tome of constitution
Jaheira - got 3 tomes of dexterity
Viconia -got 3 tomes of wisdom
Edwin - got a tome of strength and wisdom.
This leaves charisma and intelligence for the main char.
Looking at these stats they got more than there are tomes in the game, so applying proper transfer would actually be decreasing their power.
Also, i chunked Imoen in BG1. Beamdog, answer how she came back to life.
That said, you'll be much more likely to get a straight answer when they've actually started working on BG2, when they'll have a much better concept of how much time they'll have to spend on things like that.
Open to better ideas as far as mod implementation goes.
Some time after BG2EE comes out there will be a BGTEE or sm like that, with a different name.
The only satisfactory solution for me is this:
- that every single NPC from BG1 is ported to BG2 with their new dialogue written accordingly. Once you wake up at Irenicus' dungeon, there will be a max. of two characters alongside you+imoen in the cages (with according dialogue), and the rest will be scattered at distinct locations, the same way Viconia is to be found in the streets of Athkatla.
Here's how it would work:
* you can't let Imoen die in BG1 because it's a game over; regardless of whether you had her in your party at the end of BG1 or not, she appears in Irenicus' dungeon (but her dialogue could be adjusted accordingly)
** instead of remaining just a thief or a dual-classing automatically at lvl7, she should be a thief/mage multiclass and have very good attributes and some special abilities or sticky item boons to compensate for a terrible early multiclass
* if you don't have Jaheira and Khalid in your party at the end of BG1, neither of them get carried over and you don't get to see them again (obviously, as a result of this, Khalid doesn't die as well)
** if you do have both Khalid and Jaheira (and you *absolutely* can't have only one of them), he dies
*** same with Minsc and Dynaheir, altho it could be made that Dynaheir has actually somehow survived and you encounter her later
* if you don't have Viconia in your party at the end of BG1, you don't see her in BG2 again, and there's no witch-hunt episode (too convenient for so many characters from Baldurs Gate to find their way to Amn alongside you independently of you)
** if you did have her, you always find her in the streets of Athkatla and never in Irenicus' dungeon and have to save her from the mob
* regardless of whether you had Quayle with you at the end of BG1, he's always at his circus; if you did have him, he will join you, if you didn't, he won't be a joinable character (so that there wouldn't be an overflow of joinable NPC's)
* the two characters that appear alongside you in the dungeon are selected randomly, or you could select them via dialogue on a special transitional location between the two games - you and the two others you've chosen go scouting while Imoen (if she's in the party) remains with the rest; the scouting team (+ Imoen, again, if she's there) gets captured and the rest scatters
* most of the characters who have scattered, such as Kivan, Coran etc. you will find at the Copper Coronet, but some might have gone as far as Trademeet.
** Alora could be in the thieves guild, Yeslick and Ajantis could be in the temple district etc. Tiax in the graveyard/catacombs. Xan has already been completed it's just that the continuity has to be established between the original Xan and the modded-in character.
And the items - you should be able to retrieve all of the valuable unique items because they carry over. Some should be in the starting dungeon but most will have been sold to the merchants in Waukeen's Promenade and you'd have to buy them back. Some of those however could have been stolen from those merchants and you'd have to track the thief down.
from the point of view of integrity of BG2 storyline and it's relevance within it, killing of Ajantis is literally nothing, just a nuisance; this should be changed
via modding, that's what i'm talking about (so i understand i veered into the wrong forum section there a bit).
same with Tiax, altho i did totally forget about him.
How come everybody made their way to Amn?
f*ing ridiculous