Although this all works fine as an order of fighter/mages. I think the case for the Dark Knight as a class archetype is much stronger. But Ive definitely talked myself into having Atheist, gods-hating knights in my world. : )
I'm an Atheist in real life, but I'm not sure it makes sense in the BG universe where you actually interact with gods throughout the game, are the child of one, and can become one yourself. How would your Atheist knight explain becoming a god him/herself in ToB, or at least having the option to do so?
To paraphrase a genius; "Just because something exists is no reason to go believing in them."
So, if you choose to become a god in ToB, do you not believe in your own existence? Or would you tell your worshipers that you don't exist?
Presumably if you were self-interested you'd make appearances at a few parties, set up a following, and then just deny the existence of all *other* gods and say they're just worshipping angelic servants of yours, or are heretics that needs a-murderin'.
As a devout atheist character however, it would be an interesting character that took on the mantle of a god and then went around exterminating anyone that believed in them in an effort to diminish the pantheon forever.
Although this all works fine as an order of fighter/mages. I think the case for the Dark Knight as a class archetype is much stronger. But Ive definitely talked myself into having Atheist, gods-hating knights in my world. : )
I'm an Atheist in real life, but I'm not sure it makes sense in the BG universe where you actually interact with gods throughout the game, are the child of one, and can become one yourself. How would your Atheist knight explain becoming a god him/herself in ToB, or at least having the option to do so?
I see this in a more Star Trek fashion. The Knights don't deny such beings exist, as in a fantasy world, there is no doubt about it. They deny the divinity of the Gods, like Picard denies Q, or Kirk denies Trelaine. I dont't know of any parallels in fantasy. I hadn't thought of this in terms of the main BG character. But likewise, that person, while acknowledging having a supernatural being as a parent, denies Bhaal as a God, seeing him as nothing more than a super powerful demon, etc. If, in FR, a deity relies on worship for survival, that does put the Knight PC in a self sacrificing role, as they despise worship. That PC would rather die than be worshipped.
Never liked this alignment stuff, it just didn't fit the real world. Sure these paladins saw themselves as lawful good, but they committed terrible atrocities in the name of their god, their zeal blinded them making them believe that no matter what they did it was ok and good.
Never liked this alignment stuff, it just didn't fit the real world. Sure these paladins saw themselves as lawful good, but they committed terrible atrocities in the name of their god, their zeal blinded them making them believe that no matter what they did it was ok and good.
Much like the crusaders in real life that paladins are probably based on.
Although this all works fine as an order of fighter/mages. I think the case for the Dark Knight as a class archetype is much stronger. But Ive definitely talked myself into having Atheist, gods-hating knights in my world. : )
I'm an Atheist in real life, but I'm not sure it makes sense in the BG universe where you actually interact with gods throughout the game, are the child of one, and can become one yourself. How would your Atheist knight explain becoming a god him/herself in ToB, or at least having the option to do so?
I see this in a more Star Trek fashion. The Knights don't deny such beings exist, as in a fantasy world, there is no doubt about it. They deny the divinity of the Gods, like Picard denies Q, or Kirk denies Trelaine. I dont't know of any parallels in fantasy. I hadn't thought of this in terms of the main BG character. But likewise, that person, while acknowledging having a supernatural being as a parent, denies Bhaal as a God, seeing him as nothing more than a super powerful demon, etc. If, in FR, a deity relies on worship for survival, that does put the Knight PC in a self sacrificing role, as they despise worship. That PC would rather die than be worshipped.
Gods, demon-lords, uber-powerful spirits, eldricht beings from beyond time and space... Is there any difference in practice? If a being is as powerful as a god, commands power over a domain like a god, calls itself a god, is worshipped as a god, and most of all recieves much of it's godlike power because it is worshipped as a god, then is it not a god? Even if one were to answer "no", it would be a philosophy of semantics, based on drawing arbitrary lines to differentiate between higher beings who all command power beyond our imaginations.
I would argue that obedience is lawful behaviour, but you're suggesting that because their behaviour is unerringly random, given infinite time a truly Chaotic Neutral individual will attempt to kill whoever is nearest, simply because they have poor impulse control.
Given that, I think it's still pretty obvious that assuming absolute law/chaos on someone's behaviour isn't going to work out well.
This is incorrect. Killing someone out of impulse is Neutral Evil behavior, such as Viconias slaughter of some farm owner who had abused and tried to kill her. Chaotic neutrals don't simply do anything that is opposite to the law, they simply don't abide to lawful restrictions. Your opinion that a chaotic neutral would kill if the law says they shouldnt would also apply to chaotic goods, as in this case you are ignoring the neutrality - A neutral person would have no innate desire to kill anyone. However LNs believe in organized lawful societies, whether they be evil tyranies or benevelont democracy. The order to kill from a government is not a chaotic act, it is entirely lawful because the order is being given by the law. Even in non evil societies, such orders can exist as capital punishment. The order to behead a thief who has broken the law would be carried out by a LN without question. A LG may reject the idea due to his moral beliefs, while a CE would actually gain enjoyment from carrying out the order.
The description given about CN as being random and crazy is entirely incorrect. If murder out of impulse comes into it, then they are NE. If murder for pleasure is involved, they are CE. In a LNs case, they might be given a lawful order to assassinate an evil lawbreaker. Yet if that order was given by a corrupt government and the target wad innocent, a LN would not stop to question his orders. Bounty hunters who kill targets that the authority requests display LN behaviour. They are carrying out the request of the law, but have little sympathy for the wanted people (such as the poor emerald thief Prism being hunted by Graywolf).
LN is absolutely not a suitable alignment for a paladin, there is no desire to actually do what is good and right, only what the law demands.
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As a devout atheist character however, it would be an interesting character that took on the mantle of a god and then went around exterminating anyone that believed in them in an effort to diminish the pantheon forever.
I hadn't thought of this in terms of the main BG character. But likewise, that person, while acknowledging having a supernatural being as a parent, denies Bhaal as a God, seeing him as nothing more than a super powerful demon, etc.
If, in FR, a deity relies on worship for survival, that does put the Knight PC in a self sacrificing role, as they despise worship. That PC would rather die than be worshipped.
I hadn't thought of this in terms of the main BG character. But likewise, that person, while acknowledging having a supernatural being as a parent, denies Bhaal as a God, seeing him as nothing more than a super powerful demon, etc.
If, in FR, a deity relies on worship for survival, that does put the Knight PC in a self sacrificing role, as they despise worship. That PC would rather die than be worshipped.
Gods, demon-lords, uber-powerful spirits, eldricht beings from beyond time and space... Is there any difference in practice? If a being is as powerful as a god, commands power over a domain like a god, calls itself a god, is worshipped as a god, and most of all recieves much of it's godlike power because it is worshipped as a god, then is it not a god? Even if one were to answer "no", it would be a philosophy of semantics, based on drawing arbitrary lines to differentiate between higher beings who all command power beyond our imaginations.
The description given about CN as being random and crazy is entirely incorrect. If murder out of impulse comes into it, then they are NE. If murder for pleasure is involved, they are CE. In a LNs case, they might be given a lawful order to assassinate an evil lawbreaker. Yet if that order was given by a corrupt government and the target wad innocent, a LN would not stop to question his orders. Bounty hunters who kill targets that the authority requests display LN behaviour. They are carrying out the request of the law, but have little sympathy for the wanted people (such as the poor emerald thief Prism being hunted by Graywolf).
LN is absolutely not a suitable alignment for a paladin, there is no desire to actually do what is good and right, only what the law demands.