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I like how people are complaining about lack of roleplay options

TheArtisan TheArtisan Member Posts: 3,277
in Baldur's Gate: Siege of Dragonspear
Meanwhile BG2 has this:



Where's the option of being a jerk? ****'s been like this since day one, people.
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  • [Deleted User][Deleted User] Posts: 0
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  • RawgrimRawgrim Member Posts: 621
    Artemius_I said:

    Meanwhile BG2 has this:



    Where's the option of being a jerk? ****'s been like this since day one, people.

    Why would people complain of lack of this and that in the old BG2 or a forum made for discussing SoD. If some shoddy rp option in a 20 year old game excuses shoddy rp options in all future games, things will never improve.
  • RawgrimRawgrim Member Posts: 621
    TheGraveDigger said:

    Bad example. Before that point you could have said...

    "I grow weary of your outbursts! If you continue, I will leave you here!"
    "Join with me, but you better serve me better than you did Dynaheir."
    "Your very being here shows you are weak. I will leave you where you are."
    "Are you talking to a... hamster? What kind of a warrior are you?"
    "You are quite clearly insane. You shall stay right here."

    All jerkish.

    Spot on.
  • TenreccTenrecc Member Posts: 265
    TheGraveDigger said:

    Bad example. Before that point you could have said...

    "I grow weary of your outbursts! If you continue, I will leave you here!"
    "Join with me, but you better serve me better than you did Dynaheir."
    "Your very being here shows you are weak. I will leave you where you are."
    "Are you talking to a... hamster? What kind of a warrior are you?"
    "You are quite clearly insane. You shall stay right here."

    All jerkish.

    This. Congratulations, OP, of finding one dialogue step where you lack role-playing options in a game spanning at least tens of thousands.
  • KcoQuidamKcoQuidam Member Posts: 181
    More funny to see what roleplay options people have massivly ask for.

    Does people have ask for an "me too" option ? A "talk me more about that" option ? Or even an evil option but not related to her transness ? No. But it seems very important for people the ability to being rude to the character when she talk about her name's story.

    (Even if for most of other minor npc like her you doesn't have rude option)
  • megamike15megamike15 Member Posts: 2,666
    it's like how every time people want to complain about the dialogue wheel they bring up the planscape torment scene with ravel and how it has 12 options. that was the only scene to have that many choices every other time in the game the most you got was 6 and some were the same just with a lie or truth next to it.
  • RawgrimRawgrim Member Posts: 621
    Ammar said:

    Tenrecc said:

    TheGraveDigger said:

    Bad example. Before that point you could have said...

    "I grow weary of your outbursts! If you continue, I will leave you here!"
    "Join with me, but you better serve me better than you did Dynaheir."
    "Your very being here shows you are weak. I will leave you where you are."
    "Are you talking to a... hamster? What kind of a warrior are you?"
    "You are quite clearly insane. You shall stay right here."

    All jerkish.

    This. Congratulations, OP, of finding one dialogue step where you lack role-playing options in a game spanning at least tens of thousands.
    Is that not what the SoD critics do all the time? Also note the use of Yeah while the writing of SoD is often called too modern.
    The word "yeah" popped up in written form for the first time in 1905. Words like "racist" popped up more than 30 years later.

    Both words should be kept far away from a game set in medieval times.
  • RawgrimRawgrim Member Posts: 621
    megamike15 said:

    it's like how every time people want to complain about the dialogue wheel they bring up the planscape torment scene with ravel and how it has 12 options. that was the only scene to have that many choices every other time in the game the most you got was 6 and some were the same just with a lie or truth next to it.

    the Dialog Wheel was pretty much a choice for the tone of the PC, anyway. You click a symbol, almost, and then get a bunch of dialog you have no say in. Crpgs have been dumbed down since Planescape came out. Let's call a spade a spade.
  • RawgrimRawgrim Member Posts: 621
    I just want to keep "modern real world stuff" out of my fantasy games. Simple as that. When I spot something like it I get sort of a "hick-up" in my immersion. It is almost unavoidable to do, of course. But it is nice if writers make an effort to keep things like that to a minimum at least. Speaking in general terms here.
  • DetectiveMittensDetectiveMittens Member Posts: 235
    But Muh Immersion BibleThump.


  • AmmarAmmar Member Posts: 1,297
    megamike15 said:

    it's like how every time people want to complain about the dialogue wheel they bring up the planscape torment scene with ravel and how it has 12 options. that was the only scene to have that many choices every other time in the game the most you got was 6 and some were the same just with a lie or truth next to it.

    While the 12 were above average even for PS:T, the game did offer more options than the BG series ever did, including a much better evil path. The pragmatic incarnation is my favorite role model in terms of evil player characters.
  • SharGuidesMyHandSharGuidesMyHand Member Posts: 2,583
    Ammar said:

    Tenrecc said:

    TheGraveDigger said:

    Bad example. Before that point you could have said...

    "I grow weary of your outbursts! If you continue, I will leave you here!"
    "Join with me, but you better serve me better than you did Dynaheir."
    "Your very being here shows you are weak. I will leave you where you are."
    "Are you talking to a... hamster? What kind of a warrior are you?"
    "You are quite clearly insane. You shall stay right here."

    All jerkish.

    This. Congratulations, OP, of finding one dialogue step where you lack role-playing options in a game spanning at least tens of thousands.
    Is that not what the SoD critics do all the time?
    No, there is a consistent lack of appropriate dialogue options throughout the game. Take this for example:



    2 out of the 3 dialogue options require that you actually compliment the thugs who have just beaten a man and stolen all of your earnings. There is only one "angry" response to what many players will find to be a very infuriating situation, and that one requires that you make some sort of snobbish comment about the thugs' "pauper" status, which is completely irrelevant to why you're angry with them. Not only that, but choosing the third option will leave a journal entry that tries to make you look bad by focusing on the fact that the thugs alleged to have "donated" your gold to others.

    By contrast, BG1 had dialogue options that allowed you to be angry/threatening while still being appropriate for a neutral- or even good-aligned character, like this one:




  • SharGuidesMyHandSharGuidesMyHand Member Posts: 2,583
    Ammar said:

    Also note the use of Yeah while the writing of SoD is often called too modern.

    SoD uses language and style that wasn't used in the original games that SoD is supposed to be transitioning between. For example, how often were words like "racist/racism" used in the original games, even in situations that could be regarded as "racist" from a modern perspective (i.e.: the Flaming Fist and Viconia).
  • lansounetlansounet Member Posts: 1,182
    @SharGuidesMyHand And how many times do you think racis(t/m) appears in SoD? I'll tell you : once
  • DJKajuruDJKajuru Member Posts: 3,300
    It would be a dream come true to have a game with the amount of dialogue that torment has, bg's freedom and iwd's epicness. Would that be too much? I dunno, writers must always be careful not to overwhelm lplayers. I agree with the OP, though. There should be , for most dialogues, a good ,a neutral an evil or jerk option.
  • RawgrimRawgrim Member Posts: 621
    joluv said:

    JonSnowIsAlive said:

    As I have already said in other threads, SoD should not limit itself to its parent games deficiencies, but rather try to rise above it.

    Meanwhile, people are furious that Amber Scott didn't show proper "reverence" to the original game when she pointed out one of its deficiencies and expressed a desire to rise above it.
    She could have added plenty of stuff without tampering with existing character's though. She came off as someone who hadn't even played the original games when she said Jaheira was nothing more than a nagging wife etc.
  • joluvjoluv Member Posts: 2,137
    Rawgrim said:

    joluv said:

    JonSnowIsAlive said:

    As I have already said in other threads, SoD should not limit itself to its parent games deficiencies, but rather try to rise above it.

    Meanwhile, people are furious that Amber Scott didn't show proper "reverence" to the original game when she pointed out one of its deficiencies and expressed a desire to rise above it.
    She could have added plenty of stuff without tampering with existing character's though. She came off as someone who hadn't even played the original games when she said Jaheira was nothing more than a nagging wife etc.
    Remind me, have you played the game you spend your days criticizing? Have you seen how Jaheira and Safana are portrayed in it? No? Interesting.
  • mf2112mf2112 Member, Moderator Posts: 1,919
    shawne said:

    Rawgrim said:

    She could have added plenty of stuff without tampering with existing character's though. She came off as someone who hadn't even played the original games when she said Jaheira was nothing more than a nagging wife etc.

    So we're still going to just outright ignore facts on this thread, huh?

    Amber's exact words were that "Jaheira was the nagging wife and that was played for comedy". She did not say that Jaheira was nothing more than that. And if you've played BG1, you know this is accurate, because BG1 doesn't offer a lot of room for character development. Khalid's death quote is Jaheira shouting "Blast it, Khalid! You die and you'll never hear the end of it!"

    And if you're so convinced that's a mischaracterization of BG1 Jaheira, how about you find some evidence to the contrary? Because I've got the game script right here, and it seems pretty accurate to me.
    You have the full script for BG1? Does Jaheira ever compliment Khalid or say anything considerate to him?
  • RawgrimRawgrim Member Posts: 621
    joluv said:

    Rawgrim said:

    joluv said:

    JonSnowIsAlive said:

    As I have already said in other threads, SoD should not limit itself to its parent games deficiencies, but rather try to rise above it.

    Meanwhile, people are furious that Amber Scott didn't show proper "reverence" to the original game when she pointed out one of its deficiencies and expressed a desire to rise above it.
    She could have added plenty of stuff without tampering with existing character's though. She came off as someone who hadn't even played the original games when she said Jaheira was nothing more than a nagging wife etc.
    Remind me, have you played the game you spend your days criticizing? Have you seen how Jaheira and Safana are portrayed in it? No? Interesting.
    Told you two times before. I played the game for several hours on a friend's computer when it came out. I stopped playing due to some bugs and the graphics issues with the new sprites.

    Write it down on a piece of paper.
  • RawgrimRawgrim Member Posts: 621
    shawne said:

    mf2112 said:

    You have the full script for BG1? Does Jaheira ever compliment Khalid or say anything considerate to him?

    Everyone has the full script - it's the game file called dialog.tlk. See for yourself. She has one line that shows affection, and it's still phrased in the form of poking fun at her husband: "Khalid, my dear, 'twould take a sailor to untie that tongue."

    And that's it.

    People who are taking issue with Amber's comments are either fixating on BG2 Jaheira, or are just plain lying about what's actually bothering them.
    BG2 Jaheira is as important as the BG1 Jaheira, since BG2 expands on the same character.

    Or are you saying that the character should be completely different in each game, even if each part of the game are pieces of a whole story?
  • RawgrimRawgrim Member Posts: 621
    shawne said:

    Rawgrim said:

    She could have added plenty of stuff without tampering with existing character's though. She came off as someone who hadn't even played the original games when she said Jaheira was nothing more than a nagging wife etc.

    So we're still going to just outright ignore facts on this thread, huh?

    Amber's exact words were that "Jaheira was the nagging wife and that was played for comedy". She did not say that Jaheira was nothing more than that. And if you've played BG1, you know this is accurate, because BG1 doesn't offer a lot of room for character development. Khalid's death quote is Jaheira shouting "Blast it, Khalid! You die and you'll never hear the end of it!"

    And if you're so convinced that's a mischaracterization of BG1 Jaheira, how about you find some evidence to the contrary? Because I've got the game script right here, and it seems pretty accurate to me.
    BG2 is a factor too. If you are going to expand on a character you can't just go by how the character is in the first few chapters of the whole story. A character is the sum of its parts, and that means BG2 is vital to this too.
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