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The Cleric/Thief support group.

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Comments

  • reedmilfamreedmilfam Member Posts: 2,808
    Zafiro said:

    Eww..a criminal priest - not to far from reality, but from an ideal stand point, I don't like it very much. If to say something about the role-playing side of it, the crook priest should not benefit any spells, kinda like the fallen ranger, and taking advantage of people. As for the tech part, clearly I have nothing to say; guess you can skip my opinion.

    Edit: For the tech part of the game, I say just follow PnP as close as possible.

    Rogue is not necessarily a criminal. If you read AD&D class description, they were able to be more like scouts and/or spies. Priest/Thug doesn't work, of course, but there are other 'reads' on the rogue, depending on how you play the character.

    Communard
  • mlnevesemlnevese Member, Moderator Posts: 9,478
    Thieves were also explorers. Renaming the class into rogues was one of the best changes in 3rd edition.

    If I wanted to do an Indiana Jones like character in 2nd edition you may bet he'd be a thief.

    BTW you all managed to make me interested in a Cleric/Thief. I just started a new run in BGT so I~ll keep it for BG:EE :)

  • Awong124Awong124 Member Posts: 2,643
    I'm going to be the token troll in this thread:

    "Ermahgerd gross! Cleric/Thief is so stupid and useless! And Tiax sucks."

    mlneveseQuartz
  • FrozenCellsFrozenCells Member Posts: 379
    Cleric/Thief is surprisingly good. As others have said, it's very handy to have both the healer and thief roles taken care of in one character and it's actually a decent character in it's own right, the cleric buffs fit in nicely with backstabbing and also make the thief hold his own more in normal combat which pure thieves generally suck at. Access to things like the Helm of Balduran and the Amulet of Power is nice too. I haven't made up on my mind on my character for my first BG:EE runthrough but Cleric/Thief is definitely under consideration.

    vladpen
  • mlnevesemlnevese Member, Moderator Posts: 9,478
    Awong124 said:

    I'm going to be the token troll in this thread:

    "Ermahgerd gross! Cleric/Thief is so stupid and useless! And Tiax sucks."

    Not wise in a thread with cleric/thieves... Mass flamestrike the troll!!!! ;)

  • DazzuDazzu Member Posts: 924
    @Lemernis

    Thieves cannot be Lawful Good. Otherwise a HO C/T would be worth all of my yes!

  • WanderonWanderon Member Posts: 1,407
    I'm a fan of the Cleric/thief both Gnome and Half-orc - altho I agree the interface is annoying - I wonder if it got an upgrade with BG:EE

    Quartz
  • LemernisLemernis Member, Moderator Posts: 4,264
    edited September 2012
    Dazzu said:

    @Lemernis

    Thieves cannot be Lawful Good. Otherwise a HO C/T would be worth all of my yes!

    Right, forgot about that restriction. Thanks! He'd have to be NG then.

    Post edited by Lemernis on
  • sandmanCCLsandmanCCL Member Posts: 1,389
    Lemernis said:

    @Jax

    Probably the best I will be able to do is set the actor up with the tools to do it at home, such that the basic quality is at least 'good'. This is... uh.. a low budget project. :) All the actor would be getting from the deal is a credit to add to his resume. I wouldn't be paying for studio time.

    Do you think 'good enough' is achievable with mic available at Best Buy or Staples and a freeware application via C-net?

    @Lermernis: just saw this.

    You can get surprisingly good mic quality with "low budget" mics. You'll still wanna spend around $50 bucks on the mic itself, but to simulate a good sound room, this is a cool trick I learned during a voice acting seminar I took.

    Take a cardboard box, big enough to fit both the mic and the speaker's head comfortably. Line the back, sides and top with foam padding, which you could easily pick up at a crafts store for cheap. Viola, instant rigged sound-proof box.

    I actually have access to professional recording equipment. My college has a radio station, and I internship at another radio station here in town. I'm sure they'd be happy to let me record some clips. I've got a fairly deep voice and have been working on a monstrous-type style so I'd be more than happy to help you out here if you are really serious about wanting to finish it.

    BrudeKlonoa
  • LemernisLemernis Member, Moderator Posts: 4,264
    edited September 2012
    @sandmanCCL

    Awesome, thanks! Yeah, I'm pretty serious about this. I definitely have the bug again. The problem is going to be finding/making time to work on it.

    My plan is to introduce the character in BG:EE, where he'll just have dialogs (including with the new NPCs). This buys me some time for the more challenging task of designing his quest in BG2:EE. I'm going to need to either reuse existing areas or design new ones for that.

  • BrudeBrude Member Posts: 560
    @sandmanCCL @Lemernis

    Sands is right on the money. Lem, if you live in a decent sized city you can also rent mics. This may be a better option than buying if you're only using the for a one-off project.

    Anyway, Sands post reminded me of something I saw awhile back. To promote his novels, author Scott Siegler recorded audiobooks at home. He posted pictures of his setup -- basically it was him in a small closet that was lined with heavy blankets.

    So Lem, the only thing you really need is a decent mic and a way to kill ambient noise and reverbs off the walls.

  • BrudeBrude Member Posts: 560


    Okay, did I do this right? I went for quarterstaves and slings. (Something about chunking mobs with a staff is oddly satisfying).

    Do people usually go for two-handed weapon style with this multi? Also, I've got him in chainmail now, but figured I'd switch once I got better leather.

    Ligg
  • FrozenCellsFrozenCells Member Posts: 379
    Yeah Quarterstaffs are a decent choice. Take Two Handed Fighting Style as well to double your critical hit chance. Clubs are useless in BG1 and IIRC it's the only other backstabable weapon a C/T uses.

    Brudevladpen
  • jolly_bbjolly_bb Member Posts: 122
    edited September 2012
    Please someone correct me at this, but this is actually (sadly, as i would play it!) quite useless class:

    just checked in vanilla BG2: Cleric/Thief cannot backstab - being a cleric prevents him from using any backstabbing weapons....

    I expect this is D&D rules, not even a bug, right? Or am i missing something?

  • sandmanCCLsandmanCCL Member Posts: 1,389
    jolly_bb said:

    Please someone correct me at this, but this is actually (sadly, as i would play it!) quite useless class:

    just checked in vanilla BG2: Cleric/Thief cannot backstab - being a cleric prevents him from using any backstabbing weapons....

    I expect this is D&D rules, not even a bug, right? Or am i missing something?

    You can backstab with any weapon a natural single-class thief can use. That includes Quarterstaves and Clubs.

    In fact, the weapon which allows you the largest backstab possible is the Staff of the Ram +6. It does 1d6+12. Best part is it's all crushing damage, which is probably the best type of weapon damage in AD&D. Very, very few things resist it while there are plenty of things that resist piercing and slashing damage.

    @Brude: That character is perfect. Alternatively you could have dropped 3 points out of constitution and tried to get Charisma up a little bit but getting regen upon resting is probably the better choice.

    You'll want to use Quarterstaves and Two-Handed style. Two-handed style increases your damage with staves by 1, which means that much better backstabs.

    BrudeMoomintroll
  • jolly_bbjolly_bb Member Posts: 122

    You can backstab with any weapon a natural single-class thief can use. That includes Quarterstaves and Clubs.

    In fact, the weapon which allows you the largest backstab possible is the Staff of the Ram +6. It does 1d6+12. Best part is it's all crushing damage, which is probably the best type of weapon damage in AD&D. Very, very few things resist it while there are plenty of things that resist piercing and slashing damage.

    I fully agree it should be like that, but why it does not work in vanilla BG2? I'm trying it out right now with BG2 open in second window... What am i doing wrong?

  • sandmanCCLsandmanCCL Member Posts: 1,389
    What are you trying to backstab? If you're attacking the golems in the game's intro, they are immune to backstab.

    If you're attacking a valid backstab target and you're positioned behind them and it's still not doing it, then I'm not sure. I recently ran a test to see what kind of damage I could inflict with a theoretical maxed kensai/thief and backstabbed with a staff for over 300 damage. I have a screenshot somewhere if you'd like me to drag it out.

  • BrudeBrude Member Posts: 560

    @Brude: That character is perfect. Alternatively you could have dropped 3 points out of constitution and tried to get Charisma up a little bit but getting regen upon resting is probably the better choice.

    You'll want to use Quarterstaves and Two-Handed style. Two-handed style increases your damage with staves by 1, which means that much better backstabs.

    @sandmanCCL I wanted the eventual 20 STR/ 20 CON toon. Otherwise I would have gone with a dwarf. =D

    Okay, I'll throw my points into 2H-style. I got the guy wearing plate now. He's a pretty good tank until I can pick up someone better.

    Thanks for the tips!

  • EilerEiler Member Posts: 93
    Thief class was one of my early favorites in BG and I never really paid them much attention before BG outside of Pen and Paper efforts. Over time however that has become less true as I have come to the point where I really like all of the classes.
    Ligg said:

    I'd like to start an activist network to encourage all those who actually like the cleric/thief to come out and say so. It has to be the most maligned multi-class. Tiaxaphobic comments like, 'I don't get it,' or 'It's just useless' litter the internet.
    Fed up being turned away from Feldeposts even though the sign in the window says 'rooms available'? Had enough of the 'special seating area' at the Five Flagons theater? Unite here and make a stand.

    They mightn't wield giant swords. Instead they are like the swiss army knife of classes.

    If you have no issues with giving a multi-class a kit then they can be great.

    Try Priest of Helm/Thief.
    You get free True Sights - which can't be sneezed at. You also get Seeking Sword: a +3 weapon at 3 attacks per round. Did you know you can backstab with seeking sword? Add Righteous Magic for strength and maximum damage. Then Add the HLA Asassination.

  • One advantage to playing a Cleric/Thief is that you won't have to take Jan along in BG II. ^ ^

    You also won't have to worry about dual classing Imoen in BG I, since you'll be the backup trap disarmer and lock picker.

    Further, having the NPC as a healer can help a lot.

    One thing I want to say about the pure Cleric though. At the end of ToB, the Cleric is tied with the Bard as the second best character for the Dispel Magic spell, next to the Inquisitor. Both reach level 40, whereas the Mage/Sorcerer and Druid reach 31, and the multiclassed Cleric will reach 25 at the most. This means the Cleric and Bard can dispel the magic of every other character at a success rate of 95%, and even against the strongest enemies in the game they should have a 50% chance to dispel, which is pretty good for a third level slot, which the Cleric will have a minimum of 9 slots for. And dispel removes all of the protections that will help your melees, like stoneskins, mirror image, invisibility, immunity to magical weapons, absolute immunity, elemental resists, and so on. The AoE version of Breach and more.

  • sandmanCCLsandmanCCL Member Posts: 1,389
    Plus having a pure cleric means you can take one of the gloriously amazing kits for them. Boon of Lathander combined with Righteous Magic and other priest buffs makes him a better melee fighter than most warriors.

  • FigrutFigrut Member Posts: 109
    I would do 6 character solo multiplayer all gnome multiclass playthroughs. A fighter/thief, fighter/cleric, fighter/illusionist, illusionist/cleric, illusionist/thief, cleric/thief. Quite often the cleric/thief became the most beloved character in the party. I would have rather cartoonish spell contingency cascades set of with him being the thief with the poorest disarm skills playing gnomish mine sweeper with only his god to protect him.

    DragonspearRAM021
  • FigrutFigrut Member Posts: 109
    Also, the Friar Tucks of the world need some love.

    sandmanCCLneleotheszeBrude
  • DazzuDazzu Member Posts: 924
    Gnomes > Half Orcs because boosted saves are are much better than a paltry point in str and wis over the gnome. Seriously, you have DUHM and Righteous Magic to overcome str issues, and the lost Lv4 spell slot from not having 18 wis is rarely going to matter late game.

  • sandmanCCLsandmanCCL Member Posts: 1,389
    Dazzu said:

    Gnomes > Half Orcs because boosted saves are are much better than a paltry point in str and wis over the gnome. Seriously, you have DUHM and Righteous Magic to overcome str issues, and the lost Lv4 spell slot from not having 18 wis is rarely going to matter late game.

    Don't forget the ridiculous amount of Wisdom tomes you can use to boost your stats. The difference between 20 wisdom and 21 is an extra 3rd and 5th level spell, which considering how crazy your spellcasting already is at just 20 is just superfluous.

  • WanderonWanderon Member Posts: 1,407
    Don't know if this will still work in BG:EE but in BG1 & 2 you can also backstab with the spiritual hammer spell,,,(yes I know that hammer is not supposed to be a backstab weapon but the spell always worked and was a decent choice early on)

    As for the backstab not working did I see you were wearing plate? IIRC at least some of the thief skills would not work if you were wearing armor heavier than one suited to a single class thief (leathers or elven chain)

  • TalarashaTalarasha Member Posts: 62
    Wanderon said:

    Don't know if this will still work in BG:EE but in BG1 & 2 you can also backstab with the spiritual hammer spell,,,(yes I know that hammer is not supposed to be a backstab weapon but the spell always worked and was a decent choice early on)

    Sounds like a bug to me, I hope it will be (was?) corrected in EE.
    Wanderon said:

    As for the backstab not working did I see you were wearing plate? IIRC at least some of the thief skills would not work if you were wearing armor heavier than one suited to a single class thief (leathers or elven chain)

    My humble BG-expirience told me that backstabbing has no connection with a type of wearing armor. Though armor heavier then "hide" (with expection of the dragon scale) blocks the abilities to hide, to disarm traps and to pickpocket. Pickpocket is still an option with elven-type chainmails (for the bards at least), and "Search" option is avaible, so my favored fighter/thieves and cleric/thieves can disarm traps (no problems with detect, and you always can take your armor off for a second), detect invisible bad (and sometimes good ..) ) guys and backstabb with potions of invisibility. Though lately I prefer leather type armor, for RP.

  • RexfaroensisRexfaroensis Member Posts: 134

    @Lemernis

    If you do get a voice actor please record all voice clips in a professional sound recording booth. So many of the community made NPCs have god awful PC mic recordings that set my hairs on edge.

    That's absolutely true. I can live with poor voice-acting (let's face it, most community-based voiceacting is just plain bad) but the recordings are just horrendous!

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