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BG2EE badly needs an evil thief

DeathMachineMiyagiDeathMachineMiyagi Member Posts: 120
edited September 2012 in Archive (General Discussion)
This was an annoyance for me when playing an evil party in BG2. You had Viconia, Edwin, and Korgan covering your cleric, mage and fighter spots...but if you wanted an evil thief, you had to roll your main character as one. Otherwise, your only options were neutral or good.

I liked having an all-evil party run-through. I also liked being able to disable traps, backstab people, etc. without being forced to roll a thief or multi/dual-class thief character. Please make it possible.

And while you're at it, make it a male character who is romanceable. The female villains among us were even more screwed over than the men, since their only option was not only an insufferable jerkass, but an extremely self-righteous insufferable jerkass.
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Comments

  • DragonspearDragonspear Member Posts: 1,838
    It was stated in their AMA that they were looking to add at least 1 pure thief to BG2 and there were some hints that it would be an evil character.
  • DeathMachineMiyagiDeathMachineMiyagi Member Posts: 120
    Dragonspear said:

    It was stated in their AMA that they were looking to add at least 1 pure thief to BG2 and there were some hints that it would be an evil character.

    Ooooh, glad to hear it! Thanks.

  • sarevok57sarevok57 Member Posts: 5,975
    i bet one reason why they did that was so then you couldnt play through bg II with 1 rep, because i made a whole custom evil team and just started killing everybody and everything after chapter 5 and i was kicking unbelievable butt even in athkatla i was unstoppable and the cowled wizards had no chance against me, so i think that i was they did that so then they could tone down your craziness, even in bg 1 sometimes with a full evil team i just start wasting people in bg the city for poops and giggles and at max level those flaming fist silly nillies have nothing against even a pc team, and i bet they found that out that some people started doing that to calm down SoA teams, on the plus side when you just start killing off the innocents you sometimes find very interesting items in very interesting places, like cloaks of balduran and rings of regeneration
  • kamuizinkamuizin Member Posts: 3,704
    edited September 2012
    We know, many threads for this already, by the way @Tanthalas, maybe you want to merge this one with another BG2 thief feature request.

    Even with Sarevok we get only 5 evil NPCs in the game, that's sucks.
  • DeathMachineMiyagiDeathMachineMiyagi Member Posts: 120
    kamuizin said:

    We know, many threads for this already, by the way @Tanthalas, maybe you want to merge this one with another BG2 thief feature request.

    Even with Sarevok we get only 5 evil NPCs in the game, that's sucks.

    Didn't see any on the first page, so eh.

    And I actually didn't mind having a shortage of evil NPCs, if only because the ones we got were so awesome. Edwin, Viconia and Korgan were all at or near the top of effectiveness for their respective classes amongst the NPCs available. With an evil thief CHARNAME, you had an efficient little machine of malevolence dividing the XP four ways for most of the game...and then getting Sarevok, the best NPC fighter in the BG series, as a bonus at the end.
  • sarevok57sarevok57 Member Posts: 5,975
    edited September 2012
    i think there was some mod pc somewhere out there that added a neutal evil mage/thief i think it was called suna, i've always kept her potrait ever since, despite the fact its a photoshopped viconia remake :)
  • KaxonKaxon Member Posts: 156
    sarevok57 said:

    i bet one reason why they did that was so then you couldnt play through bg II with 1 rep, because i made a whole custom evil team and just started killing everybody and everything after chapter 5 and i was kicking unbelievable butt even in athkatla i was unstoppable and the cowled wizards had no chance against me, so i think that i was they did that so then they could tone down your craziness, even in bg 1 sometimes with a full evil team i just start wasting people in bg the city for poops and giggles and at max level those flaming fist silly nillies have nothing against even a pc team, and i bet they found that out that some people started doing that to calm down SoA teams, on the plus side when you just start killing off the innocents you sometimes find very interesting items in very interesting places, like cloaks of balduran and rings of regeneration

    I kinda feel like if you go that crazy, Elminster should step in and kick your ass, since they already established that he's keeping tabs on the PC. I mean even Sarevok didn't walk around randomly murdering people and he was completely evil, but he had to be somewhat subtle.
  • sarevok57sarevok57 Member Posts: 5,975
    what about that first guy in the beginning sequence? and plus didnt he want to start a war and kill lots o' people? :)
  • LemernisLemernis Member, Moderator Posts: 4,318
    Agree. Assuming that we see some new NPCs for BG2:EE, let's hope a thief is among them. Maybe swashy or assassin.
  • MortiannaMortianna Member Posts: 1,356
    edited September 2012
    Assassin | Human | Female | Lawful Evil

    Make it so!

    *I almost forgot. Make her male and female "friendly." Viconia is already available for male-only romances.
  • QuartzQuartz Member Posts: 3,853
    Mortianna said:

    Assassin | Human | Female | Lawful Evil

    Make it so!

    Nice. Sounds good.

    You know I won't lie. I would kind of like a character like Safana. Since BioWare killed her off, which was bogus. I thought her personality was absolutely lovely.
  • MortiannaMortianna Member Posts: 1,356
    @Quartz LE is a tad different from CN, but if her personality and stats stayed the same as Safana, I'd be happy.
  • DeeDee Member Posts: 10,447
    I'm still kind of hoping for a half-doppelganger, but I'm also very much aware of the remoteness of that possibility. :)
  • MortiannaMortianna Member Posts: 1,356
    @Aosaw I'm going to keep my mouth shut this time.
  • DeeDee Member Posts: 10,447
    To clarify, @Mortianna, I wouldn't want it if it couldn't be done in such a way as to make it not seem like the absurdist experiment that it is. ;)
  • kamuizinkamuizin Member Posts: 3,704
    From mods standarts, TDD bring an evil thief, but TDD is too broken to be use in my opinion. Valen mod introduce an chaotic evil vampire on the party, an incredible mod in my view.

    Besides that there are other evil characters but not many.

    If the reputation break for neutral NPCs where removed, probally we would not need to rely so much in the hope of a evil thief.
  • KortokKortok Member Posts: 165
    Either Swashbuckler or F/T. Assassin and bounty hunter are so lacking in comparison. But I suppose I'll take what I can get.
  • BrudeBrude Member Posts: 560
    @sarevok57 Dang, when you go evil you *really* don't hold back. :D

    I think this points to a bigger issue -- BG2 needs twice as many (!) evil NPCs. As it stands now, you're limited to one choice for each slot if you want to run an evil group.

    I wish they could take a page from KOTOR2 and the PC could influence NPC alignment. So via dialogue you could end up corrupting Aerie and turning her evil by ToB.

    I know it can't happen, but that would have been fun.
  • neleotheszeneleothesze Member Posts: 231
    @Brude You can influence Viconia for example, and to some extent Anomen (he can be happy to be Neutral). What I'd really like is for NPCs to influence the PC. Say you start off good... you believe in compassion, helping others. If you travel with just evil NPCs and hear just their comments on your actions, over time, they could influence you... for example, halfway through the game one of the NPCs should question your beliefs... and you can either choose to defend them and stick to your initial alignment or acknowledge the influence they've had over you and change.

    As for an evil thief... why not? For diversity if nothing else. But careful with the sounds... if I have to hear something along the lines of "And the rivers run reeeeeeed" I'll go insane :P
  • kamuizinkamuizin Member Posts: 3,704
    An corruptuon idea? Yes, glad that someone share this thought besides me @neleothesze, Viconia can be redeemed, Sarevok too but not a single corruption possibility in a game that lack evil a lot (BG2).
  • SophiaSophia Member, Translator (NDA) Posts: 581
    If we talk about BG2, it also badly needs a good thief, not only an evil one. The only pure thief is Yoshimo, who soon becomes...unavailable
  • moody_magemoody_mage Member Posts: 2,054
    You can always dual-class Sarevok into an evil thief...
  • kamuizinkamuizin Member Posts: 3,704
    This would be a blasphemy to me, but still is possible. But you only get Sarevok in ToB, so... yet no evil thief for most part of the game.
  • sandmanCCLsandmanCCL Member Posts: 1,389
    I think the reason there are a lack of evil NPCs is the devs wanted you to have the evil vs. good NPC clashes. Edwin's taunting of Minsc and Korgan's brutality toward Aerie are half the flavor of those characters.
  • neleotheszeneleothesze Member Posts: 231
    @kamuizin I‘m glad to hear I‘m not the only one who‘s thought of this. If there are more people we could band together and make a mod at least. base the change on the amount of time npcs of opposite alignment spend in the party or something of the sort :)
  • moody_magemoody_mage Member Posts: 2,054
    kamuizin said:

    This would be a blasphemy to me, but still is possible. But you only get Sarevok in ToB, so... yet no evil thief for most part of the game.

    Fine, dual-class him over to mage then... ;)

    I suspect the real reason for not providing a real thief is because it would negate the point of bringing Yoshimo along and therefore considerably lessening the story arc. Not saying I agree with it, it's just my guessing of why it is how it is.
  • kamuizinkamuizin Member Posts: 3,704
    I never liked how the game worked yoshimo question, we undo an geas easly in BG, in BG2 there's no chance to avoid his geas... hate this fact.

    Sarevok is too lame in status by the way, the devs surely tightened ctrl+8 when they made him.
  • BrudeBrude Member Posts: 560
    @neleothesze I like that idea.

    Only reservation is that some classes have alignment restrictions, so I don't know how it would work with AD&D/ BG2 in actual practice.

    (it's an academic question, I know .. )
  • kamuizinkamuizin Member Posts: 3,704
    Yes, one of them for example is priests of Helm for example cannot be chaotic neutral, the original devs didn't care much about it anyway.
  • sandmanCCLsandmanCCL Member Posts: 1,389
    kamuizin said:

    I never liked how the game worked yoshimo question, we undo an geas easly in BG, in BG2 there's no chance to avoid his geas... hate this fact.

    Sarevok is too lame in status by the way, the devs surely tightened ctrl+8 when they made him.

    As opposed to the times he randomly does 200 damage just because he's the goddamn deathbringer? :)

    Stats really don't matter by the time you reach Throne of Bhaal so I never had a problem with how absurd his roll is.
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