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Should 'SOD Characters' be a DLC for Baldur's Gate 2?

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  • GenderNihilismGirdleGenderNihilismGirdle Member Posts: 1,336
    Yes
    Personally I think everyone makes sense in ToB since you literally summon them to a plane to join you at the very beginning no matter from where.

    If anything, I'd like a BG2EE expansion that brought all SoD companions over to SoA, but also turned ToB into Ascension (since they have the guy who made it on board now) with the ability to pluck any companion you haven't already killed or seen die (like Safana, by that point) to join you, at the least. But that said, since you're summoning them from wherever across planar boundaries to form your ToB party in the first place, it might be cool if you could even summon the dead.

    Since I first played ToB back in 2001 I have always thought it was weird you couldn't summon literally any companion you've ever had in any BG, honestly, and it's for the reason of how you assemble your party seemingly opening the door for ripping people from whatever plane they're on, whether Material Plane or afterlife Outer Plane!

    Maybe that's just me though! Korgan and Kagain in one Evil party with a NE Dwarf CHARNAME might be too awesome to handle.

    kaguana
  • VbibbiVbibbi Member Posts: 229
    Other (Explain)
    Well it makes sense that we wouldn't just call up anyone, like the BG1 NPCS, as we haven't been in contact with them so don't know A: if they are still alive and well B: whether they are on good terms with us and would be willing to help and C: most importantly, whether they are powerful enough to be of any help.

    It's not out of the question that after Sarevok, Kagain just went back to his shop and never gained any further levels. How would he be helpful in fighting Yaga Shura as a level 8 fighter?

    I think the summoning spirit is the disconnect between gameplay and story, because anyone starting a new game will need a way to add companions without all 15 of them oddly being in Saradush waiting to be recruited. But realistically, would Good PC's even use the spirit to summon their friends to help face near-certain death? We're basically pulling them from their lives without warning, demanding that they join us or be left in a pocket plane which they can't escape. And this plane is destroyed when we travel to the Throne, so I just hope that they're safely returned to the Prime before this happens.



    I would like the Ascension story content added, like Imoen's powers, the bug fix to her banters, Balthazar etc. If Beamdog added it, I would hope that it would separate the story parts from the "improved" battle parts. TOB is too high leveled as it is, and I really wouldn't want to go through the final battle again facing The Five plus Irenicus and Bhodi. Just...no.

  • GenderNihilismGirdleGenderNihilismGirdle Member Posts: 1,336
    Yes
    When you summon them they level up to your level, which I take to mean that they've been adventuring in the meantime, so "whether they'd be useful" is sort of a moot point.

    You can summon all your past friends to your pocket plane and then swap between them as you like in ToB whatever alignment you are with no reputation hit so I imagine leaving them there isn't a horrible act, which probably means they all go back to where they were when the plane collapses rather than dying horribly...which goes even further to the point of it making no sense that you can't pull on the thread of connection you had with your BG1 party if it didn't consist of anyone who made it into BG2, considering the method is just "their fate is intertwined with yours so I can pull them to you", which definitely applies to BG1 parties that helped you off Sarevok.

    It's meta-gamey to know that they'll all be your equals when you summon them, but considering they give you the option of selecting people who may have never joined you in SoA to summon in ToB already...I don't think it's that big of a stretch.

    Honestly, I'd love a ToB party that lets you reunite Dynaheir with Minsc or Khalid with Jaheira! The party banter alone would be priceless (especially if you've romanced Jaheira and bring back Khalid, or if Minsc's new witch Aerie and old witch Dynaheir were in the same party), but even barring bringing the dead from their Planar resting place to where you are, I'd love to see my second ever playthrough party from back in the 90s before BG2 was out be my ToB companions: CG elf fighter CHARNAME, Alora, Coran, Kivan, Yeslick and Quayle! ToB has that feel of old friends coming to aid Gorion's Ward for one last epic journey, and if they're going to do a BG2EE expansion to add in SoD companion content, it would make sense (to me) to let people revisit the bonds they formed with their BG1 party if it's going to be a paid expansion anyway (which Trent implied in a recent interview it would have to be when he said Beamdog doesn't get paid for their work when people play content, but when they pay for content). I agree with that sentiment, and wanna pay them for SoD characters, but if it's gonna be a paid expansion why not let people do ToB with whatever party they like? It makes sense with the reasons given in-game for drawing past party members to you, so I don't see why they shouldn't/couldn't do it since they could easily get away with reusing old VA work and not having to hire people to do new lines for literally every returning character, or hiring those they can find to do an introductory line for being summoned and some banter pairings and then leaving the rest to text.

    But this is a bit of a tangent off the main purpose of this thread lol

  • doggydoggy Member Posts: 313
    Yes
    Yes!

    Gimme gimme gimme

    GenderNihilismGirdle
  • shawneshawne Member Posts: 3,239
    edited June 2016
    As for other BG1 characters... I'm probably in the minority here, but I've always thought there's some value to the idea that with the obvious exception of Drizzt, a long-running adventurer would eventually swap out his entire roster of companions just by virtue of extended traveling. The first time I played NWN2, my evil PC got pretty attached to Neeshka, Qara and Bishop; that doesn't mean I didn't love Safiya, Gann and Kaelyn when they turned up.

    Post edited by shawne on
    GenderNihilismGirdleredline
  • GenderNihilismGirdleGenderNihilismGirdle Member Posts: 1,336
    Yes
    shawne said:

    As for other BG1 characters... I'm probably in the minority here, but I've always thought there's some value to the idea that with the obvious exception of Drizzt, there's some value to the idea that a long-running adventurer would eventually swap out his entire roster of companions just by virtue of extended traveling. The first time I played NWN2, my evil PC got pretty attached to Neeshka, Qara and Bishop; that doesn't mean I didn't love Safiya, Gann and Kaelyn when they turned up.

    Well what's great about adding them as options in a BG2EE expansion is that people who want to play like that still can, and people who want to grab from amongst all the companions whose fates have been tied to Gorion's Ward can do that too! It makes sense for ToB (I wouldn't want them to be options for SoA, obviously).

  • shawneshawne Member Posts: 3,239

    Well what's great about adding them as options in a BG2EE expansion is that people who want to play like that still can, and people who want to grab from amongst all the companions whose fates have been tied to Gorion's Ward can do that too! It makes sense for ToB (I wouldn't want them to be options for SoA, obviously).

    To be honest, that sounds more like an argument for mods than for official content. Options are great and all, but I have a hard time believing players would dump characters they built up all through SoA for last-minute BG1 drop-ins with no real ties to the ongoing story, especially if they already have existing counterparts within the game (Ajantis/Keldorn, Kagain/Korgan, etc.)

    Vbibbimf2112
  • GenderNihilismGirdleGenderNihilismGirdle Member Posts: 1,336
    edited May 2016
    Yes
    shawne said:

    Well what's great about adding them as options in a BG2EE expansion is that people who want to play like that still can, and people who want to grab from amongst all the companions whose fates have been tied to Gorion's Ward can do that too! It makes sense for ToB (I wouldn't want them to be options for SoA, obviously).

    To be honest, that sounds more like an argument for mods than for official content. Options are great and all, but I have a hard time believing players would dump characters they built up all through SoA for last-minute BG1 drop-ins with no real ties to the ongoing story, especially if they already have existing counterparts within the game (Ajantis/Keldorn, Kagain/Korgan, etc.)
    Well have a hard time believing no more, before you is someone who thought these very thoughts the first time through ToB in a pre-9/11 world, and thinks them today! Earlier in this very thread I mused wistfully about a party with a NE dwarf CHARNAME, Kagain and Korgan all mushed together in a ball of dwarven goodn-uh...evilness.

    In all seriousness though, the very first time I did a complete runthrough from BG1 to ToB, which was after years of repeat playthroughs og BG1/ToSC and more recently SoA, I was more than a little miffed that this spirit was telling me it could pull on strands of fate connected to me and was able to yank Jan Jansen, who hadn't joined my party, to my side but not the BG1 companions who helped me off a guy who just joined my party, Sarevok. It didn't feel strained, exactly, because I wasn't going to click Jan Jansen (even though I could if I wanted to), but after hearing what the spirit could do for me and feeling mounting excitement that I might be able to have Quayle and Aerie in the same party, I was a little let down to see some strands of fate were less strandy or fatey than others.

  • shawneshawne Member Posts: 3,239
    I don't know, that makes sense to me in context - BG1 characters don't really have quests or storylines that connect them to you in that way. How do you affect Quayle's life, or Kagain's, so strongly in BG1 that their fates are tied to yours?

    Vbibbi
  • redlineredline Member Posts: 278
    Yes
    shawne said:

    As for other BG1 characters... I'm probably in the minority here, but I've always thought there's some value to the idea that with the obvious exception of Drizzt, there's some value to the idea that a long-running adventurer would eventually swap out his entire roster of companions just by virtue of extended traveling. The first time I played NWN2, my evil PC got pretty attached to Neeshka, Qara and Bishop; that doesn't mean I didn't love Safiya, Gann and Kaelyn when they turned up.

    This is a good point. I'd also be totally in favor in bringing totally new, non-BG or SoD NPCs into BG2 as well. More replay value is always a good thing, and building someone from scratch reduces the need to jump through immersion-breaking hoops and justify why so many people ended up in one very specific city by sheer happenstance.

  • GenderNihilismGirdleGenderNihilismGirdle Member Posts: 1,336
    Yes
    shawne said:

    I don't know, that makes sense to me in context - BG1 characters don't really have quests or storylines that connect them to you in that way. How do you affect Quayle's life, or Kagain's, so strongly in BG1 that their fates are tied to yours?

    They traveled with me and killed Sarevok, a quest and storyline that connected them to me much more tightly than a BG2 party member I don't travel with ever, who I can summon using that spirit. That implies that even those who could have traveled with you are considered fatebound in an in-game sense, and in a metagame sense it implies they wanted to give a player the choice of any companion who had traveled with you (and knew ahead of time at the time that they didn't have the resources or development time to implement BG1 chars returning and so never bothered with it...which is why I'm suggesting Beamdog do it instead, for both the in-game and metagame reasons cited above).

    bob_vengrorikon
  • VbibbiVbibbi Member Posts: 229
    Other (Explain)
    While I agree it could be cool, think of the controversy which will inevitably arise. We've already had lots of criticism of Jaheira and Safana in SoD, mostly because of Amber Scott's interview rather than the actual content in the game. I would argue that Skie's characterization in SoD is very different from her appearance in BG1, but I didn't have an issue with Jaheira or Safana.

    I would hope that Beamdog isn't actively courting controversy and fanrage, so I don't know if they would be willing to "interpret" the available BG1 companions and "ruin the childhood" of more players by fleshing out those characters. Plus ToB is so short, I don't know that it would be worth the resources to implement a large number of NPCs who would theoretically all have banters and interjections.


    Who's available to use?

    Alora
    Branwen
    Coran (if he didn't die in the Forest of Tethir)
    Eldoth
    Garrick (and he pretends not to remember us in SoA so why would he want to join us?)
    Kagain
    Kivan
    Quayle (but why join us in ToB if he wasn't going to join us in SoA?)
    Shar-Teel
    Xan
    Yeslick

  • shawneshawne Member Posts: 3,239
    And of that list, at least two have more reasons to stay put than to join you: Kagain has his shop, Xan is on a mission from Evereska.

    Vbibbi
  • VbibbiVbibbi Member Posts: 229
    Other (Explain)
    And Kivan would presumably want to either return to Shilmista or go to Arvandor with his wife. (I've been looking at the Kivan NPC mod)

    Some of these BG1 companions are already available as mods, anyway.

  • Idied5minutesagoIdied5minutesago Member Posts: 16
    Yes
    I may not be a veteran like rest of you, but I say Yes, bring the whole gang!

  • Camus34Camus34 Member Posts: 203
    Other (Explain)
    Again, I really hope that they bring Corwin into BG2, I'd replace Yoshimo or Nalia with Corwin in a heartbeat. Not sure if I want to continue into BG2 without such a good archer in my party, Corwin with that creepy eye medallion from the temple of Cyric, is a monster in combat. lol

  • DullSkullTheSecondDullSkullTheSecond Member Posts: 243
    No

    Looking at witchers hearts of stone expansion at the price of 10$ I think they should release the characters for free.

    Let's compare apples to coconuts, guys!
    My point was that that dlc gave a lot of stuff for its price, don't personally think SoD had the same value. So looking at what CDproject decided to give us for 10$ I think Beamdog could put in some already made characters for free. How fleshed out they want to make them is up to them.

  • FardragonFardragon Member Posts: 4,511
    edited June 2016
    Other (Explain)
    SoD is considerably bigger than Tales of The Sword Coast, for a similar price. Indeed it's longer (and less buggy) than a number of "full" games I can think of. It's excellent value for money.

    And it's worth pointing out that if SoD content was added to BG2 for free, people who hadn't paid for SoD would get content subsidised by those who had.

    Post edited by Fardragon on
  • shawneshawne Member Posts: 3,239

    They traveled with me and killed Sarevok, a quest and storyline that connected them to me much more tightly than a BG2 party member I don't travel with ever, who I can summon using that spirit.

    That's how they helped you. But my question was how you impacted their lives.

    Again, this is really to do with how BG1 constructed characters versus how BG2 did it, but the point still stands: what do you actually do for Kagain, that he'd be willing to drop everything and come help you again? How do you change Alora's life, or Quayle's? What reason within the events of BG1 would Xan have to show more loyalty to you than to the Greycloaks?

    Vbibbi
  • smeagolheartsmeagolheart Member Posts: 7,153
    Yes
    It's clear by the end of bg1 that CHARNAME is involved in some freaky deaky dead god Bhaalspawn type stuff. That might be interesting to some of the bg1 NPCs and reason for them to want to help you out. Maybe not Kagain but maybe Xan.

  • rapsam2003rapsam2003 Member Posts: 1,632
    edited June 2016
    Yes

    It's clear by the end of bg1 that CHARNAME is involved in some freaky deaky dead god Bhaalspawn type stuff. That might be interesting to some of the bg1 NPCs and reason for them to want to help you out. Maybe not Kagain but maybe Xan.

    The only character who actually seems interested in the freaky deaky Bhaalspawn stuff is Dynaheir. Xan is more interested in the source of political turmoil in the Sword Coast. Once you resolve the political turmoil, what reason is there for Xan to stick around? He's going to report back to Evereska.

    shawne
  • Camus34Camus34 Member Posts: 203
    Other (Explain)
    78% say yes, that's a strong majority.

  • BelfaldurnikBelfaldurnik Member Posts: 208
    Other (Explain)
    Corwin or M'Khiin. Okay. I could imagine lots of comments from either one in some situations.

    Voghiln. Perhaps as a romance option for female main characters or chasing every skirt he sees in Athkatla. It would need to be funny.

    But not Glint. Even Minsc confirms that Glint is "crazy in the head". I can't get accustomed to Glint, his weird "space" talk, his annoying voice, and I don't find him funny at all compared with Minsc. Glint is no match for Jan Jansen!

    Camus34
  • NonnahswriterNonnahswriter Member Posts: 2,520
    Yes

    But not Glint. Even Minsc confirms that Glint is "crazy in the head". I can't get accustomed to Glint, his weird "space" talk, his annoying voice, and I don't find him funny at all compared with Minsc. Glint is no match for Jan Jansen!

    But... But Glint and Jan in the same party... Think of the banters! The banters!! D:

    brusBGLoverrorikon
  • Camus34Camus34 Member Posts: 203
    Other (Explain)

    But not Glint. Even Minsc confirms that Glint is "crazy in the head". I can't get accustomed to Glint, his weird "space" talk, his annoying voice, and I don't find him funny at all compared with Minsc. Glint is no match for Jan Jansen!

    But... But Glint and Jan in the same party... Think of the banters! The banters!! D:
    I think that Glint would give even Jan a brain aneurysm. lol

  • rapsam2003rapsam2003 Member Posts: 1,632
    Yes
    Camus34 said:

    But not Glint. Even Minsc confirms that Glint is "crazy in the head". I can't get accustomed to Glint, his weird "space" talk, his annoying voice, and I don't find him funny at all compared with Minsc. Glint is no match for Jan Jansen!

    But... But Glint and Jan in the same party... Think of the banters! The banters!! D:
    I think that Glint would give even Jan a brain aneurysm. lol
    I think my CHARNAME would end up murdering them both, and he doesn't even worship Cyric...

  • VbibbiVbibbi Member Posts: 229
    Other (Explain)
    IMO Glint was a less cartoonish version of Jan. Still hyper and "quirky" but with less of the overexaggerated "gnomes are hilariously offbeat and not actual people" feeling of Jan. I would rather have Glint than Jan in my BG2 party.

  • BelfaldurnikBelfaldurnik Member Posts: 208
    edited June 2016
    Other (Explain)

    But... But Glint and Jan in the same party... Think of the banters! The banters!! D:

    Jan in BG2EE is brilliant. Glint in SOD is somewhere between disappointing and awful. That already lowers the expectations. Why hope for a better Glint in a future DLC/game? To me he feel's misplaced.

    The entire party would be rolling on the floor laughing, if Jan got a chance to meet Wilhelmina (the turnip juice seller in the coalition's camp).

    Camus34
  • NonnahswriterNonnahswriter Member Posts: 2,520
    Yes

    But... But Glint and Jan in the same party... Think of the banters! The banters!! D:

    Jan in BG2EE is brilliant. Glint in SOD is somewhere between disappointing and awful. That already lowers the expectations. Why hope for a better Glint in a future DLC/game? To me he feel's misplaced.

    The entire party would be rolling on the floor laughing, if Jan got a chance to meet Wilhelmina (the turnip juice seller in the coalition's camp).

    I disagree. I like Glint. He's probably my favorite of the SoD NPCs, Corwin being a very close second.

    He's not to everyone's taste, I'll admit that. But the beauty of DLC is that you don't have to add it to your game if you don't like or don't want the content.

    Aedan
This discussion has been closed.