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Should 'SOD Characters' be a DLC for Baldur's Gate 2?

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Comments

  • BelfaldurnikBelfaldurnik Member Posts: 208
    Other (Explain)

    He's not to everyone's taste, I'll admit that. But the beauty of DLC is that you don't have to add it to your game if you don't like or don't want the content.

    Glint is not an optional DLC, however. You get him if you get SOD, and then all that's left is to ignore him as a companion or possibly slay him asap. That reduces the replayability factor of the DLC compared with one where all four new companions are worthwhile and not only 75%. If you continue into SOD from BGEE and need a new cleric (such as a replacement for Branwen), then your choices are limited.

  • rapsam2003rapsam2003 Member Posts: 1,630
    Yes

    Glint is not an optional DLC, however. You get him if you get SOD, and then all that's left is to ignore him as a companion or possibly slay him asap. That reduces the replayability factor of the DLC compared with one where all four new companions are worthwhile and not only 75%. If you continue into SOD from BGEE and need a new cleric (such as a replacement for Branwen), then your choices are limited.

    The whole point of this thread is whether the SOD only characters should be available in BG2EE...

    NonnahswriterCamus34justfeelinathome
  • BelfaldurnikBelfaldurnik Member Posts: 208
    Other (Explain)

    The whole point of this thread is whether the SOD only characters should be available in BG2EE...

    And I would prefer if Glint were missing in an NPC DLC for BG2EE.

  • shawneshawne Member Posts: 3,239

    And I would prefer if Glint were missing in an NPC DLC for BG2EE.

    This is why such polls - and statements such as yours - are completely pointless. By definition, DLC is optional; if that content were made and released, you wouldn't need Glint to be "missing"; just don't purchase/download that particular DLC.

  • rapsam2003rapsam2003 Member Posts: 1,630
    Yes
    shawne said:

    And I would prefer if Glint were missing in an NPC DLC for BG2EE.

    This is why such polls - and statements such as yours - are completely pointless. By definition, DLC is optional; if that content were made and released, you wouldn't need Glint to be "missing"; just don't purchase/download that particular DLC.
    Or, if Glint is included within the DLC, just don't ever pick him up as a companion. /shrug

    Camus34rorikon
  • Camus34Camus34 Member Posts: 203
    Other (Explain)
    shawne said:

    And I would prefer if Glint were missing in an NPC DLC for BG2EE.

    This is why such polls - and statements such as yours - are completely pointless. By definition, DLC is optional; if that content were made and released, you wouldn't need Glint to be "missing"; just don't purchase/download that particular DLC.
    The poll is meant to be a measure of demand for the SOD characters, so it's not pointless.

  • BelfaldurnikBelfaldurnik Member Posts: 208
    edited June 2016
    Other (Explain)
    shawne said:

    This is why such polls - and statements such as yours - are completely pointless. By definition, DLC is optional; if that content were made and released, you wouldn't need Glint to be "missing"; just don't purchase/download that particular DLC.

    You've created an unnecessary loop. Congrats! I've pointed out before that if the DLC includes Glint and other NPCs, I get less because I don't like Glint. Only if the DLC contained Glint and only Glint, I could skip it completely by not purchasing that DLC.

    And no, not pointless at all to mention it. If NPC companions from SOD were offered as an add-on DLC for BG2EE, obviously I would prefer it if Glint were not included, but rather M'Khiin, Corwin, Voghiln and perhaps a way to rescue Ajantis or Dynaheir.

  • rapsam2003rapsam2003 Member Posts: 1,630
    Yes

    You've created an unnecessary loop. Congrats! I've pointed out before that if the DLC includes Glint and other NPCs, I get less because I don't like Glint. Only if the DLC contained Glint and only Glint, I could skip it completely by not purchasing that DLC.

    You get the same as everyone else. Whether you use what you get or not, that's up to you. Now quit thinking you're a special cupcake who DESERVES whatever you wish. Quit being selfish.

  • JuliusBorisovJuliusBorisov Member, Administrator, Moderator, Developer Posts: 19,340
    Other (Explain)
    Generally, be excellent to each other.
    Not everyone is always going to agree on everything all the time. Everyone has a right to express their views in a civil manner.

    If you're frustrated by something, let the community know in a way that tells them that you're willing to accept help. If you just need to vent, that's okay too (although it sometimes helps if you lead with that).

    And if you see somebody who's frustrated, try to help them, instead of assuming that they're just "being a jerk" or "trying to troll you". There's plenty of grass for all of us, no matter what kind of grass-eating thing you happen to be.


    https://forums.beamdog.com/discussion/10852/site-rules-mind-the-gap

    mf2112
  • BelfaldurnikBelfaldurnik Member Posts: 208
    Other (Explain)
    Those are strange replies for various reasons.

    This topic is about "a poll" not about seeking help or venting frustration. I've only pointed out my opinion. Don't try to read between the lines.

    It should be obvious that if a DLC had not much to offer, some potential buyers might not be interested in it based on their low expectations. If there were a separate purchase for each NPC companion, I would not get Glint for the reasons I've given. The voice actor saying the bit about Glint being "from spaaaaace" almost me made quit that playthrough. If the DLC contained a pack of multiple NPCs, the purchase decision would be different, but then I might discover more annoyances related to Glint, such as poor banter compared with the other companions.

    And finally, there's absolutely no reason to be hostile towards me or try to lecture me about what is optional and what isn't. I've completed the series often enough to have acquired all Steam achievements minus the two non-working ones, and I still like playing it including SOD.

  • justfeelinathomejustfeelinathome Member Posts: 353
    Yes
    After eight pages it seams to me, that the IDEAL solution for most people would be individual DLC for each of the four characters (five with SoDs secret NPC, six with BG: EEs) free of charge and possibly with a different name, like "Optional Companion", since some people seem to be allergic to the acronym. :blush:

    Would releasing four to six pieces of content be more pricey for Beamdog, than releasing one? I'm no expert, so I don't know, but I have a gnawing suspicion that it would, especially via Appstore, Steam and GOG. So everybody's happiness might come at a price.

    Seems to me we don't live in an ideal world. Utopia-time's over.

  • rapsam2003rapsam2003 Member Posts: 1,630
    Yes

    After eight pages it seams to me, that the IDEAL solution for most people would be individual DLC for each of the four characters (five with SoDs secret NPC, six with BG: EEs) free of charge and possibly with a different name, like "Optional Companion", since some people seem to be allergic to the acronym. :blush:

    The sad part is, there's actually people who want this.../facepalm

    Would releasing four to six pieces of content be more pricey for Beamdog, than releasing one? I'm no expert, so I don't know, but I have a gnawing suspicion that it would, especially via Appstore, Steam and GOG. So everybody's happiness might come at a price.

    It very much would be more expensive.

    Seems to me we don't live in an ideal world. Utopia-time's over.

    Huh, imagine that. Ain't reality a brick to the face for some folks?!

    justfeelinathome
  • NonnahswriterNonnahswriter Member Posts: 2,520
    Yes

    It should be obvious that if a DLC had not much to offer, some potential buyers might not be interested in it based on their low expectations. If there were a separate purchase for each NPC companion, I would not get Glint for the reasons I've given. The voice actor saying the bit about Glint being "from spaaaaace" almost me made quit that playthrough. If the DLC contained a pack of multiple NPCs, the purchase decision would be different, but then I might discover more annoyances related to Glint, such as poor banter compared with the other companions.

    And finally, there's absolutely no reason to be hostile towards me or try to lecture me about what is optional and what isn't. I've completed the series often enough to have acquired all Steam achievements minus the two non-working ones, and I still like playing it including SOD.

    When you're proposing that we not include a character that other people (such as myself) would heartily enjoy within BG2 on the simple basis that you don't like him, you kinda deserve a lecture.

    You don't like Glint. That's fine. If he were to become DLC in BG2, you wouldn't have to purchase or use him. What you are proposing, that he shouldn't be included at all, is depriving other people of content they may or may not enjoy. Because of your personal tastes.

    And I take a very prickly stance with anyone or anything that means to deprive a person of choice just because they "dislike" or "disagree" with that choice. Especially when the inclusion of such choice would have little to no impact on them.

    All that being said:

    I'm in the Go-Big-Or-Go-Home camp. Either include every character, or none at all. I personally would like to see all the SoD companions added to BG2 because that means more new content to a game I adore.

    But having just one character imported would feel strange to me, as the SoD companions are unique only to SoD, and there's something special about that. Each BG game has characters that can't be seen in any of the other titles, and I can see value in continuing that trend by choosing to keep the SoD NPCs exclusive.

    Choosing to add only one of the NPCs into BG2 would break that exclusivity, not to mention open a giant can of worms like "Why did THIS character get picked and not THIS ONE!?" "I demand Corwin!" "I demand Glint!" "I DEMAND ALL THE CHARACTERS!"

    And, well... Beamdog's had enough headaches to last them a lifetime. :wink: Better to just avoid all that in the Go Big camp, don'tcha think?

    brusjustfeelinathomeJuliusBorisov
  • FardragonFardragon Member Posts: 4,511
    Other (Explain)

    free of charge

    I don't see why Beamdog should do anything "free of charge". I enjoy my job, but if I did it for free I would very quickly be homeless and starving.

    NonnahswriterCamus34BGLoverPK2748
  • ButtercheeseButtercheese Member Posts: 3,757
    Other (Explain)
    Yes, if it's done well.

  • inethineth Member Posts: 562
    No
    DLCs are of the devil.
    Game companies who respect their audience don't do DLCs.
    Fardragon said:

    I don't see why Beamdog should do anything "free of charge".

    Beamdog hasn't charged for any of the post-release patches either, even though months of work have gone into them.

    There are other revenue models besides separately packaging up and charging for every little thing.

  • justfeelinathomejustfeelinathome Member Posts: 353
    Yes
    Fardragon said:

    free of charge

    I don't see why Beamdog should do anything "free of charge". I enjoy my job, but if I did it for free I would very quickly be homeless and starving.
    @Fardragon I'm actually with you on that one. I was just summarizing what I believe some (not most, but certainly the most outspoken) people wished for, not what's actually realistic or what I thought was right. I'd gladly be willing to pay for individual or the "Go Big camp", as @Nonnahswriter has put it, DLC. Again, nobody would be forced to. Sorry if my words have been misunderstood.

  • FardragonFardragon Member Posts: 4,511
    edited June 2016
    Other (Explain)
    ineth said:

    DLCs are of the devil.
    Game companies who respect their audience don't do DLCs.

    Fardragon said:

    I don't see why Beamdog should do anything "free of charge".

    Beamdog hasn't charged for any of the post-release patches either, even though months of work have gone into them.

    There are other revenue models besides separately packaging up and charging for every little thing.
    ALL revenue models require charging for something, wether it's every little thing, or one big thing, or carrying advertising.

    Personally, I would rather pay for "every little thing" because some of those little things I won't want, whereas if it's all lumped together then I am forced to pay for content I don't want to get the content that I do want.

    I charge £25 per lesson. That means that if, for some reason, you don't want a lesson one week, then you don't have to pay for it.

    The only revenue model I could see making the SoD characters available in BG2 without directly charging for them is to require ownership of SoD as well as BG2. But I suspect that would be technically prohibative. As pointed out, selling each character seperately might be preferable to lumping them all together, since some people like one but hate another.

    "The workman deserves his wages." - Jesus Christ

  • BelfaldurnikBelfaldurnik Member Posts: 208
    Other (Explain)

    When you're proposing that we not include a character that other people (such as myself) would heartily enjoy within BG2 on the simple basis that you don't like him, you kinda deserve a lecture.

    The sole reason for this poll is to get feedback. Notice that I didn't simply answer "No", but gave my reasons as what I dislike about Glint. So what? You want to lecture me? You will achieve nothing if doing that.

    You don't like Glint. That's fine. If he were to become DLC in BG2, you wouldn't have to purchase or use him.

    And that is wrong. Only if there were a separate DLC for each NPC, I could choose not to spend money on him. If the DLC contained all four new NPCs, and 1-2 of them were crap, bad luck. I might decide against spending the money. Perhaps not if 75% were worthwhile and only Glint were crap. Still reason to voice my concerns early as in this topic.

    What you are proposing, that he shouldn't be included at all, is depriving other people of content they may or may not enjoy. Because of your personal tastes.

    Which is what this poll is about. In my opinion it would be a bad idea to offer more of Glint, if not improving him, making him more funny and less idiotic.

    Everytime I see and hear Edwin in SOD saying "Zap! Kapow! Pew, pew, pew! Pew, pew!" I close my eyes, take a deep breath and wonder how old the author of that is and who the target group of that may be? Compare that with some of Edwin's lines in BGEE and notice the difference. Same with Jan Jansen vs. Glint. If new content for the BG series is supposed to target kids and not anymore the fan base, too, that would be bad.

    And I take a very prickly stance with anyone or anything that means to deprive a person of choice just because they "dislike" or "disagree" with that choice. Especially when the inclusion of such choice would have little to no impact on them.

    You wanna fight? How lame. It won't lead to anything. I am free to dislike Glint, the "content" he adds and the annoying voice-acting, too. Someone arriving at Coastway Crossing with a party missing a cleric, after Yeslick and Branwen have been removed from the party at exit of Korlasz Tomb without even talking to the main character, bad luck. Viconia as a last resort. Though, some party builds just don't work, such as Edwin and Minsc & Dynaheir, so limited options may be troublesome.

    Choosing to add only one of the NPCs into BG2 would break that exclusivity, not to mention open a giant can of worms like "Why did THIS character get picked and not THIS ONE!?" "I demand Corwin!" "I demand Glint!" "I DEMAND ALL THE CHARACTERS!"

    That's silly, because I didn't and don't "demand" anything. I voice my opinion about Glint. That's all.

    Don't fight.

  • rapsam2003rapsam2003 Member Posts: 1,630
    Yes

    That's silly, because I didn't and don't "demand" anything. I voice my opinion about Glint. That's all.

    Don't fight.

    No, you're just unreasonably suggesting that we sit there and split all the SOD characters into their own DLCs, so you don't have to "be stuck with Glint". Never mind that such a thing is going to be more costly and less likely to be feasible. Never mind that you don't actually lose a damn thing if Glint is included in a potential DLC.

    Camus34
  • BelfaldurnikBelfaldurnik Member Posts: 208
    Other (Explain)

    No, you're just unreasonably suggesting that we sit there and split all the SOD characters into their own DLCs, so you don't have to "be stuck with Glint".

    Not true. I didn't "suggest" that. I only made clear when Glint would be "optional". Everything's still there. Don't try to read between the lines. If you misunderstand something, next time ask for a clarification.

  • NonnahswriterNonnahswriter Member Posts: 2,520
    Yes

    Choosing to add only one of the NPCs into BG2 would break that exclusivity, not to mention open a giant can of worms like "Why did THIS character get picked and not THIS ONE!?" "I demand Corwin!" "I demand Glint!" "I DEMAND ALL THE CHARACTERS!"

    That's silly, because I didn't and don't "demand" anything. I voice my opinion about Glint. That's all.

    Don't fight.
    I should have clarified: that dialogue in quotes was not aimed at you, it was what I think some members of the community might say if only one NPC was picked to be added to BG2. It's a theoretical situation and has nothing to do with what you've written previously.

    Everything after "All that being said:" was not aimed at you. Apologies that I didn't make that clearer.

  • FardragonFardragon Member Posts: 4,511
    Other (Explain)
    I think that's enough of that. Some people like Glint and others don't. Nuff said.

    ButtercheeseNonnahswriterJuliusBorisov
  • rapsam2003rapsam2003 Member Posts: 1,630
    edited June 2016
    Yes

    No, you're just unreasonably suggesting that we sit there and split all the SOD characters into their own DLCs, so you don't have to "be stuck with Glint".

    Not true. I didn't "suggest" that. I only made clear when Glint would be "optional". Everything's still there. Don't try to read between the lines. If you misunderstand something, next time ask for a clarification.
    Semantics are cool...

    You don't want Glint in a DLC for SOD (all) Companions. What you want is, each SOD Companion to have their own DLC, so you (and supposedly others) can pick and choose which companions you want. Reality is, A) no DLC has even been announced yet (meaning this is all hypothetical) AND B) any such DLC will likely contain all SOD Companions (and quests for them, continuation of romances, etc.) because doing otherwise makes it really hard to deal with branching story paths.

    Edit: Oh, and before someone tries to bring up a game like Mass Effect 2 and subsequently ME3...just remember that most of the ME2 companions were only given as sidequests for Sheppard in 3.

  • BelfaldurnikBelfaldurnik Member Posts: 208
    Other (Explain)

    Semantics are cool...

    You don't want Glint in a DLC for SOD (all) Companions. What you want is, each SOD Companion to have their own DLC, so you (and supposedly others) can pick and choose which companions you want.

    So, tell me, what is your role here in the forum? Being the guy that tries to provoke others? It won't work. Nowhere did I write that I want a separate DLC for each companion, so kindly stop phrasing it like that.

  • JuliusBorisovJuliusBorisov Member, Administrator, Moderator, Developer Posts: 19,340
    Other (Explain)
    @Belfaldurnik It's better not to discuss other forumites.

    Nowhere did I write that I want a separate DLC for each companion, so kindly stop phrasing it like that.

    Well, higher on this page you said that:

    Only if there were a separate DLC for each NPC, I could choose not to spend money on him. If the DLC contained all four new NPCs, and 1-2 of them were crap, bad luck. I might decide against spending the money. Perhaps not if 75% were worthwhile and only Glint were crap.

  • BelfaldurnikBelfaldurnik Member Posts: 208
    Other (Explain)
    It's an explanation of when Glint would be fully "optional". He is not optional, if he comes with a pack of four. Nowhere did I say I want Glint to be a separate download. Pay attention to the details.

  • FardragonFardragon Member Posts: 4,511
    edited June 2016
    Other (Explain)
    That would depend on how they where presented. If they where made pretty much unavoidable, as Beamdog have done with their other NPCs, then I could see a problem. You could stick him in a quiet corner where he could be easily ignored through.

    I wouldn't have thought there would ever be a pack of four though. Voghlun simply isn't very popular, and he has already been established as being in Thay during the events of BG2 anyway.

  • rapsam2003rapsam2003 Member Posts: 1,630
    edited June 2016
    Yes

    Pay attention to the details.

    Pay attention to the details? How about the details of the business side here? It's a bad business move to have 4 separate DLC packs, when you could just have a single SOD Companion DLC. (It doesn't matter if the DLC free or not.) If you have 4 separate DLCs, you have to support all of the companions separately. If X guy has Corwin but not Glint, then you have a separate scenario. Then, there's a different scenario for the guy who has just Glint. It's way too much; there's too many scenarios, all of which would require QA testing and customer support. No one has the resources to devote to that. (Or rather, they do, but those resources are better used elsewhere.) You seem to be ignoring how things work in the real world, because you dislike 1 companion so much.

  • BelfaldurnikBelfaldurnik Member Posts: 208
    Other (Explain)

    How about the details of the business side here?

    Beyond the scope of my replies. The Glint I've experienced in SOD would not be worthwhile in another DLC, if Glint's style didn't change. That's my opinion, and it won't change.

    You seem to be ignoring how things work in the real world, because you dislike 1 companion so much.

    *yawn* You're getting personal again. You know nothing about what I ignore or not. You don't even know how much I dislike Glint except for the few bits I've mentioned. Stop drawing false conclusions. It is fruitless venture.

This discussion has been closed.