The intent of the OP was to discuss the need for the writers of Beamdog to include the NPC characters in the first place or in the manner they did, given the ability of the original Dungeons and Dragons game world and the Baldur's Gate game in particular, to already satisfy in much better taste and class, a desire to change your gender in a video game, if you so choose to play that way.
This is not real life and all of these discussions regarding LGBT issues while I am sure there are many valid and insightful arguments on both sides, do not need to be included in this video game. It is neither appropriate nor will add any value to have any real world social issue spotlighted in the writing.
So I guess this thread should have indeed been moved to the off-topic section.
I don't see how the Girdle of Gender solves any problem. It's a joke item. The description itself says that the item was invented as a cruel prank, and the jester who gave it to a would-be bride was executed for it. It doesn't seem like it has anything to do with LGBT people, or that LGBT people would find anything particularly special about it that the rest of us would not.
So I haven't read all of the certainly very polite and courteous discussion leading to here (it DOES get a little repetitive) so this might have been said already, in which case I apologise for that.
But I've seen people saying that gay, lesbian, trans or w/e stuff did not belong in baldur's gate (and I suppose, Faerun as a whole) because that stuff was not accepted in what we think of when we hear middle ages, that is : middle ages in Europe.
And those might have gone on, detailling what kind of punishment awaited LGBT people in those (dark instead) ages. And something in the vocabulary that they used struck me : it was very much religious, talking of sinners and heretics, of witch-hunts and burning at the stake. Not only religious, in fact, but even very much christian (dare I say, catholic? although that might have been before or right after the great schism, so maybe not). And indeed, christianity, being the Judaism 2.0 that it is, condemn homosexuality. And a bunch of other things, too. So does the original and the other ripoff.
But now, we are very lucky, we have trace of what non-christian, non-semitic societies were like. I might be stating the obvious, but ancient Greece, for example, had a very much different take on bisexuality. Most notably, that it was perfectly OK between two consenting citizens (not, like, those filthy women). T'was even institutionalized as a sort of coming of age (this way you can throw some pedophilia in the mix). And what do you know, if you look at their religion(s), you'll find that it does not condemn bisexuality but even provide exemples of it. Between gods and such.
And of course, we don't associate them with the middle ages because they were gone long before. What we associate with the middle ages is christianity. But as medieval as D&D claims to be (my understanding is "not a whole lot"), it is only somewhat akin to the middle ages, and does not claim to be a historically accurate depiction of medieval Europe. In fact, when it comes to technological level it looks a lot more renaissance to me (maybe early renaissance but still). I don't know, I'm no middle ages historian. Fuck the middle ages.
It is only logical to take from medieval Europe what would make sense. If you don't transcribe the omnipresent gay bashing monotheism, maybe the gay burning laws and habits don't belong there either? And what do you know, there is no such religion in Faerun. The whole pluritheism is in fact more akin to how it worked in old Greece or Rome, with most important gods having some manner of cult pretty much everywhere and most cities having a few particularly big temples dedicated to certain gods with an important cult dedicated to them, like Talos/Helm/Lathander in Athkatla or that Trade goddess in Trademeet.
The question then, is how those important gods consider homosexuality, transgenderism and so on. And as far as I know, that has not been addressed. In which case it is equally wrong to assume that its accepted or frowned upon, since we just don't know. But a transgender character being open as to how she identifies could be considered a clue in the matter. =D
Now, I know that what I just wrote was basically just me reading "D&D mimics medieval europe" and answering "no it doesn't", so to make up for the probably rash tone, I'll try to do yall outraged people a solid. D&D does not claim to be historically acurate medieval Europe but there is, in fact, an RPG that does exactly that. It's called F.A.T.A.L. and if you want to play in a setting closer to our old Europa in those dark times, maybe it's the one for you?
The question then, is how those important gods consider homosexuality, transgenderism and so on. And as far as I know, that has not been addressed. In which case it is equally wrong to assume that its accepted or frowned upon, since we just don't know. But a transgender character being open as to how she identifies could be considered a clue in the matter. =D
@Pecca That is because I lived there for a while. Although I can't speak Czech any more--not that I had any skill with it even when I was there--I can still read enough of it that I wouldn't be wandering around town lost, dazed, and confused. If I had to choose somewhere else in the world to live other than where I am right now I would probably go back there.
As a woman gamer, it enhances my immersion when I can roll a female main CHAR. Yet if the writing and the game-world is right, I do not mind a no-choice male hero. I am fan of Gothic/Risen until Risen 2 and Two Worlds franchises.
I really love gaming, and my "best" immersion. And would love everyone to enjoy the same.
Comments
This is not real life and all of these discussions regarding LGBT issues while I am sure there are many valid and insightful arguments on both sides, do not need to be included in this video game. It is neither appropriate nor will add any value to have any real world social issue spotlighted in the writing.
So I guess this thread should have indeed been moved to the off-topic section.
But I've seen people saying that gay, lesbian, trans or w/e stuff did not belong in baldur's gate (and I suppose, Faerun as a whole) because that stuff was not accepted in what we think of when we hear middle ages, that is : middle ages in Europe.
And those might have gone on, detailling what kind of punishment awaited LGBT people in those (dark instead) ages. And something in the vocabulary that they used struck me : it was very much religious, talking of sinners and heretics, of witch-hunts and burning at the stake. Not only religious, in fact, but even very much christian (dare I say, catholic? although that might have been before or right after the great schism, so maybe not). And indeed, christianity, being the Judaism 2.0 that it is, condemn homosexuality. And a bunch of other things, too. So does the original and the other ripoff.
But now, we are very lucky, we have trace of what non-christian, non-semitic societies were like. I might be stating the obvious, but ancient Greece, for example, had a very much different take on bisexuality. Most notably, that it was perfectly OK between two consenting citizens (not, like, those filthy women). T'was even institutionalized as a sort of coming of age (this way you can throw some pedophilia in the mix). And what do you know, if you look at their religion(s), you'll find that it does not condemn bisexuality but even provide exemples of it. Between gods and such.
And of course, we don't associate them with the middle ages because they were gone long before. What we associate with the middle ages is christianity. But as medieval as D&D claims to be (my understanding is "not a whole lot"), it is only somewhat akin to the middle ages, and does not claim to be a historically accurate depiction of medieval Europe. In fact, when it comes to technological level it looks a lot more renaissance to me (maybe early renaissance but still). I don't know, I'm no middle ages historian. Fuck the middle ages.
It is only logical to take from medieval Europe what would make sense. If you don't transcribe the omnipresent gay bashing monotheism, maybe the gay burning laws and habits don't belong there either? And what do you know, there is no such religion in Faerun. The whole pluritheism is in fact more akin to how it worked in old Greece or Rome, with most important gods having some manner of cult pretty much everywhere and most cities having a few particularly big temples dedicated to certain gods with an important cult dedicated to them, like Talos/Helm/Lathander in Athkatla or that Trade goddess in Trademeet.
The question then, is how those important gods consider homosexuality, transgenderism and so on. And as far as I know, that has not been addressed. In which case it is equally wrong to assume that its accepted or frowned upon, since we just don't know. But a transgender character being open as to how she identifies could be considered a clue in the matter. =D
Now, I know that what I just wrote was basically just me reading "D&D mimics medieval europe" and answering "no it doesn't", so to make up for the probably rash tone, I'll try to do yall outraged people a solid. D&D does not claim to be historically acurate medieval Europe but there is, in fact, an RPG that does exactly that. It's called F.A.T.A.L. and if you want to play in a setting closer to our old Europa in those dark times, maybe it's the one for you?
Ed Greenwood's response to anti-SoD crapfest
...and I won't even comment more about his >.>
I really love gaming, and my "best" immersion. And would love everyone to enjoy the same.