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So there are 4 multiclass combinations allowed by the rules but not by Baldur's Gate

PugPugPugPug Member Posts: 560
edited October 2012 in Archive (Feature Requests)
After being embarrassed to hear my thief/bard dream was against the rules, I finally managed to track down a list of the combinations allowed in 2nd Edition.

Dual classing actually has no combination restrictions, and you can actually dual-class the same character more than once (though never back to a previous class), but all of that sounds really hard to implement, as cool as it might be.

Here are the four not included in Baldur's Gate:

• Druid/Mage

• Fighter/Mage/Druid

• Illusionist/Fighter

• Illusionist/Cleric

I guess two only pertain to gnomes, and the other two to druids, who the developers must have deemed similar enough to Clerics to let it slide.

I'd like to see them added to BG:EE though. What do you think?




The others are:

Fighter/Thief

Fighter/Cleric

Fighter/Druid

Fighter/Mage


Cleric/Ranger

Cleric/Mage

Cleric/Thief


Mage/Thief


Fighter/Mage/Cleric

Fighter/Mage/Thief


Illusionist/Thief
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Comments

  • Awong124Awong124 Member Posts: 2,642
    edited October 2012
    I would personally like to see no restrictions to multi/dual classing whatsoever. You can get Illusionist/Fighter and Illusionist/Cleric if you dual class.

    And for your previous wish for Thief/Bard, it doesn't make a lot of sense for multiclass, but I can see it working very well for a dual class.
  • SceptenarSceptenar Member Posts: 606
    I'm pretty sure cleric/illusionist is in the game. Quayle is one...
  • Awong124Awong124 Member Posts: 2,642
    Sceptenar said:

    I'm pretty sure cleric/illusionist is in the game. Quayle is one...

    Actually both of the illusionist ones are available to gnomes.
  • SceptenarSceptenar Member Posts: 606
    Awong124 said:

    Sceptenar said:

    I'm pretty sure cleric/illusionist is in the game. Quayle is one...

    Actually both of the illusionist ones are available to gnomes.
    Guess the OP should have done some more research...
  • PugPugPugPug Member Posts: 560
    Sceptenar said:

    Awong124 said:

    Sceptenar said:

    I'm pretty sure cleric/illusionist is in the game. Quayle is one...

    Actually both of the illusionist ones are available to gnomes.
    Guess the OP should have done some more research...
    I guess the wiki is inaccurate and I'm away from my computer that has the game...
  • Awong124Awong124 Member Posts: 2,642
    In fact, illusionist/cleric and illusionist/fighter are the only choice available to gnomes. They can't be a generic mage multiclass.
  • TJ_HookerTJ_Hooker Member Posts: 2,438
    Actually gnomes can't be a generic mage at all, even single-class.
  • BrudeBrude Member Posts: 560
    Awong124 said:

    I would personally like to see no restrictions to multi/dual classing whatsoever. You can get Illusionist/Fighter and Illusionist/Cleric if you dual class.

    And for your previous wish for Thief/Bard, it doesn't make a lot of sense for multiclass, but I can see it working very well for a dual class.

    It'd work too well for a dual class, which I suspect might have been the concern. Bards are designed around being generalists and since they level quickly, certain skills (like pickpocketing) can more or less 'max out'.

    A level 10 or 12 bard has ~100 in pickpocketing, a decent song, and all or most of their spells. Dual classing something like that into a thief or a fighter seems like it would be badly broken, at least for SoA.

    @PugPug For multis, I would have *loved* a Druid/Mage. I guess they tried to cover some of these things with kits? Avengers have a little Mage flavor, but not enough.
  • SceptenarSceptenar Member Posts: 606
    Awong124 said:

    In fact, illusionist/cleric and illusionist/fighter are the only choice available to gnomes. They can't be a generic mage multiclass.

    Don't forget illusionist/thief, you'll upset Jan Jansen...

  • smeagolheartsmeagolheart Member Posts: 7,963
    and so it comes down to druids getting the shaft. The quarterstaff I guess.
  • FigrutFigrut Member Posts: 109
    Fighter/Preist/Theif would be enjoyable and not too problematic. Friar Tuck and what not. Any combination of restrictions would be interesting.
  • GanbariyaGanbariya Member Posts: 2
    What about the 2nd ed rules saying in case of Kits?

    Kensai/Wildmage/Swashbuckler would be nice for me :D
  • KithrixxKithrixx Member Posts: 215
    @Ganbariya

    2nd ed rules, IIRC, don't actually get very specific about Kits. They just say that kits are essentially there to make single-classes more appealing than just multiclasses. But I might be wrong, my memory is somewhat rusy.

    But I'm right there with you, I'd love to see multiple kits become available for players, and it's been brought up a lot. Probably a bastardization of the rules, or at least definitely not what 2nd ed intended, but BG already breaks away from 2nd ed a lot. I did a bunch of research and testing and initially thought that it would be just fine, but it'd make things into a Powergamer Paradise so now I'm not so sure.

    Really, it's up to the devs, but they've yet to make any mention of a decision, so... I've no idea.
  • elminsterelminster Member, Developer Posts: 16,317
    PugPug is right in that the Druid/Mage and Fighter/Mage/Druid are at least mentioned in the bg2 manual as viable classes.
  • aldainaldain Member Posts: 324
    edited October 2012
    Druid/Mage and Fighter/Mage/Druid would be awesome. If they've spent as much time as they say "un-hardcoding" the engine maybe this isn't such an incredible feat to pull off?
  • DrAngryDrAngry Member Posts: 7
    It would be good to add more multiclass combinations & upgrade dual classing so I can make a aasimar _Kensai\BattleMage\rogue/
  • DazzuDazzu Member Posts: 950
    Actually, Ranger/Mage and Ranger/Druid are also real and missing, fix this!
  • TanthalasTanthalas Member Posts: 6,738
    Dazzu said:

    Actually, Ranger/Mage and Ranger/Druid are also real and missing, fix this!

    How is Ranger/Druid even possible?
  • DeeDee Member Posts: 10,447
    edited October 2012
    elminster said:

    PugPug is right in that the Druid/Mage and Fighter/Mage/Druid are at least mentioned in the bg2 manual as viable classes.

    They are?

    'Cause I've been spending a lot of time with the manuals lately ( #fixingthem ), and the only druid multi-class I see in any of the various manuals is the Fighter/Druid.
  • LadyRhianLadyRhian Member Posts: 14,694
    Ranger/Druid isn't possible because Rangers must be good and Druids must be True Neutral. Plus, Rangers are humans over forests in interests, while Druids are forests/nature over humans. I recall someone in Dragon Magazine tried fixing this, but I don't recall him being too successful. Unearthed Arcana, in 1e, mentioned Druid/Rangers, but the class combo had to be NG and went more towards the Ranger class rather than the Druid. It was like a Ranger with more access to Druid spells and a more restrictive alignment than a ranger.
  • XavioriaXavioria Member Posts: 874
    Omg do want Mage/Druid. Solves all my issues with role playing :)
  • artificial_sunlightartificial_sunlight Member Posts: 601
    Aosaw said:

    elminster said:

    PugPug is right in that the Druid/Mage and Fighter/Mage/Druid are at least mentioned in the bg2 manual as viable classes.

    They are?

    'Cause I've been spending a lot of time with the manuals lately ( #fixingthem ), and the only druid multi-class I see in any of the various manuals is the Fighter/Druid.
    It's true it sqys somting like this :
    Fighter/mage/cleric*

    *Can get druid instead of Cleric
  • ARKdeEREHARKdeEREH Member Posts: 531
    I've never played as a gnome, so I don't know anything about the potential limits or allowances thereof, but I do know that the game would not allow me to play as a mage/cleric/thief, as a half-elf, which I thought would be quite fun. I had to limit myself to cleric/thief. Ideally, I think it would be fun to combine all three into one character, particularly in solo games.
  • MilochMiloch Member Posts: 863
    edited October 2012
    Aosaw said:

    They are?

    'Cause I've been spending a lot of time with the manuals lately ( #fixingthem ), and the only druid multi-class I see in any of the various manuals is the Fighter/Druid.

    Yes @Aosaw, as @artificial_sunlight says, p. 235 of the SoA manual (and I think the BG1 manual as well) has under Multi-Class Combinations:
    Half-elf
    Fighter/Cleric*
    Fighter/Thief
    Fighter/Mage
    Cleric/Ranger
    Cleric*/Mage
    Thief/Mage
    Fighter/Mage/Cleric*
    Fighter/Mage/Thief

    * or Druid
    However, it would require a fairly major engine overhaul as to enable new classes you'd have to add new entries to class.ids and other related 2da files for starters. Still, it was obviously intended and should be possible.

    On the other hand, I seem to recall ranger/mage and ranger/druid may have been valid dualclass combos (though I don't remember them as multiclass ones) in 2nd edition rules, though I don't have the references at hand to verify that. That would be easy enough to mod, since you just have to change 0 to 1 in dualclass.2da for the RANGER row under the MAGE column and so on.

    Edit: incidentally @Awong124, you can already become a dual-classed fighter/illusionist etc. - if you have the stats for the mage school in question (16 dex for illusionist, available to both humans and gnomes, p. 229 of the SoA manual). I just dualed Imoen to a thief/conjurer because her CON is high enough (and indeed she is eligible for several specialist schools).

    Edit2: for the record, that was in the BG1 engine. There is some suggestion in the thread below that this doesn't work in the BG2 engine. If so, it's a bug in my opinion (particularly if it was working in BG1).

    http://forum.baldursgate.com/discussion/5667/dual-class-kits
  • DeeDee Member Posts: 10,447
    @Miloch Ahhh, the tables. Forgot about those.

    I would post a bug report for the specialist mage thing. Who wants to take charge of that task?
  • MilochMiloch Member Posts: 863
    edited October 2012
    @Aosaw - someone should verify the bug exists in BGEE. It probably does unless they've said they've corrected it somewhere, but might as well make sure. What I suspect is that dual-class options were hardcoded in BG1 but externalised in BG2 with the implementation of such tables as dualclas.2da, just not externalised properly. BG1 clearly and intentionally allowed dual-classing to specialist mages. It did not have kits, and I don't think dual-classing to kits (as opposed to specialty mages which are implemented as kits) was intended for BG2 judging from the manual.

    Edit: for the record, go ahead and file the report if you want... I would still have to DL the latest build and test it, which might not even work on my machine.
  • XanthulXanthul Member Posts: 57
    I want a half-orc barbarian / cleric to roleplay my shaman

    :(
  • MilochMiloch Member Posts: 863
    @Xanthul - Unfortunately there is another bug in dual/multiclassing as a barbarian, mainly (as I recall) due to the higher HP they get. I would've loved to play a barbarian/thief, in the great tradition of sword-and-sorcery heroes (Conan, Fafhrd etc.).
  • TanthalasTanthalas Member Posts: 6,738
    @Miloch, @Aosaw

    The specialist dual-classing has been reported already.
  • MilochMiloch Member Posts: 863
    @Tanthalas - link?
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