i would like to see an option to turn him to lawful evil (from supposed neutral evil) or something similar. i think a quest getting his soul back would be perfect to either accentuate the benefits of law and code (lawful), or personal power (neutral).
neutral evil option could retain the benefits he already has, while lawful evil could maybe result in a loss of demonic sword, but gaining charisma or wisdom plus a new inner ability.
that depends on his starting alignment as well as if he sold his soul to demon or devil. i don't think that hes been stated clearly.
You know there is a game where every single character is an emotionless empty personality with no willpower whose only purpose is to be manipulated into whatever role the player desires. It's called dragon age 2.
Well... i truly liked Isabela and Varric, but maybe is just me, the game mechanic of DA2 wasn't made for depth banters. Unlike other people i didn't thought of DA2 as an bad game, they tried to make a huge engine and game mechanic change from DA:O and displeased some people in the process.
The game lost a bit the RPG and tactics sense to become more a hack n slash on the fights, this surely is a regression from DA:O, but to say that the NPCs relations there are too weak is a bit too much, they did a good job with the resources at hand in banter's terms. The lost in fight style that deviate from an RPG sense can't be mistaken with the NPCs behaviors.
Anders is the only NPCs that i disliked. They spoiled this character that was an nice NPC on awakening (one of the few things good in that crap excuse of an expansion in DA:O).
well, most of npc dont change alignment. i don't think there is an instance where you can influence a NPC only on law/chaos scale. for dorn it would be great i think, exploring some facets of evil and stuff...
on the other side, corrupting rasaad would be great, although i can't imagine a good motivation that would not be elaborate and too time consuming to implement.
Aerie - Lawful Good to Chaotic Evil Event - this one in my opinion would require a serie of interleaved events and would be a romance required plot. 1° Main char should charge aerie for the "ogre sword" that free her from the curse instead of just give it for free. 2° Quayle should die when the party free the circus from the other gnome illusion. 3° Main Char must not be nice to her in the romance (but should not use the hard lines that break the romance), the pragmatic answers (live with that, you will get used to earth life...), anyway the romance would need a review. 4° should sleep with her at the first opportunity (what should make the romance freeze until the other requeriments are meet, then a new romance patch for evil Aerie should be taken). 5° Should solve Copper Coronet, Windspear Hills, Umar Hill quest and Trademeet quest in the evil way, by siding with Lenthian and killing Hendark, Dealing with Firkgaark and steal/rob the Windspear hills deeds from Garren, intimidate the mayor of Umar Hills to pay the party with everything they have, and accept the trademeet offer made by one of the lords of the land, to solve the druid problem in the alternative way (posioning the land with sulfur). 6° speak at least once with Belmin Gergas, the Elf Hater in waukeen's promenade and Salvanas in copper coronet. 7° After the events in Underdark Aerie should change the alignment. Result - This alignment change should be done slow maybe, turning her first to chaotic good or chaotic neutral, and then to chaotic evil. Aerie would start to see that weak is always punished and only strenght could make her survive, no matter how injust if she don't do nothing for her no one will do, in reason of the events only the strong can survive in this world. well there's stuff to be worked in this idea at least
You lost me at "Quayle should die". Impossibru!
PS:T's NPCs were much better established on the Law/Chaos spectrum. Ignus, Nordom, Dak'kon and Vhailor were all much more interesting in terms of their attitude towards order than their Goodness or Evilness. Ignus was one of the very few truly chaotic NPCs from any of the infinity games and he could very easily have been made chaotic evil and ended up a less compelling character for it.
i would like to see an option to turn him to lawful evil (from supposed neutral evil) or something similar. i think a quest getting his soul back would be perfect to either accentuate the benefits of law and code (lawful), or personal power (neutral).
neutral evil option could retain the benefits he already has, while lawful evil could maybe result in a loss of demonic sword, but gaining charisma or wisdom plus a new inner ability.
that depends on his starting alignment as well as if he sold his soul to demon or devil. i don't think that hes been stated clearly.
Also, If he's Neutral Evil, he could have made a pact with a powerful Yugoloth of the Gray Wastes or a Neutral Evil deity. Is there a rule that Blackguards and their "sponsors" must be of the same alignment?
Viconia and Anomen are the only two I can think of whom change their alignments, yesh? It should stay that way, one changes because he is knighted and thus becomes a black and white chump for the rest of his days, the other is struggling with an inner turmoil brought to light through a romance and an emphatic Bhaalspawn.
As for Dorn, ain't gonna happen, and if it does, I demand the option of turning Keldorn or Aerie to the dark side. Mainly Keldorn, so I can lead him down the path of evil, help him slay his brethren, then be like "what have you done bro?!" and then let him see the error of his ways and then kill him. Pah! I hate the prick!
@Jaxsbudgie this could be my misreading of the ascension readme but.. Sarevok used to change alignment based on a random timer, ascension tied it to an event trigger. (obviously PC can change too, but who cares!)
Ahh yus I forgot about Sarevok, he skips neutral completely and goes straight to chaotic good doesn't he? I never liked that and I don't think the timer has ever run its course for me too.
@Jaxsbudgie I've never actually done it either, have him in my party for the first time, first ascension run even but nothing much seems to be happening (only have Melissan left).
I'd like it. Not so far as to turn him paladin, but it would be nice if you could actually become friends with him and have him care about something other than strength.
Here we go. This exactly. Basically a less extreme version of Viconia. Find he has a decent, nice side to him if you befriend him but no alignment change or anything. I would love this. Unfortunately for me, all the devs have been going on about how "unapologetically evil" he is, and much worse how all his lines say "die" or "blade" and corny shit like that. He sounds quite flat so far, and the story doesn't do much to inspire any less flatness of character.
@Shin I think it might also have to do with a larger cultural issue. Since most of the progenitors of high fantasy were Christians, their beliefs obviously influenced how they constructed their stories. Tolkein was Catholic, C. S. Lewis went from atheist to Anglican, and Gary Gygax was a Jehovah's Witnesses at one time. Good and evil are illustrated very distinctly in their writings, which is understandable since Christianity is a story of the struggle between good and evil. Given all the other forms of media (films, novels, TV shows, etc.) that have perpetuated this theme over several generations, it's no surprise that we like to see that theme portrayed over and over, especially when good prevails.
@salieri, if i'm not wrong if you don't kill the illusionist gnome in the circus fast enough he can kill quayle, what generate other banters with aerie on the aftermatch (i never try to just wait and let quayle die before, but apparently, from what i read on internet, it's possible).
Char Name redemption/corruption doesn't generate much interest cos char name is, in fact, what we roleplay him, so the only thing that could simulate that would be an alignment change in the terms of Planescape: Torment (other new games use PS:T alignment change style too, as NWN2) and some restrictions for most quests and items to specific alignment main characters.
Wished to know how to make mods, have tons of ideas, but no tecnical knowledge to apply them , really wished for a friend mod tool interface in BG EE to help me with that.
So far you can redeem Sarevok and Viconia. These redemptions were great ideas, but weren't perfectly executed. It's incredibly hard to write a redemption plausibly.
Besides, Dorn's evilness is much more tolerable than that of the others (eg: Korgan). He doesn't sound sadistic or demented sake for the sake of it (at least not from his bio). He's just a guy who'll show no mercy or sympathy in pursuit of his revenge, and that's pretty much it.
Korgan is the perfect example of chaotic evil to me, so i have no problems with his behavior (in fact i really like it when i play evil), he always remind me that my leader position will endure as long i'm strong enough to hold it, what is perfectly an chaotic evil behavior.
Just wanted to have an option to stop the fight with him when his HP is low (there's a group of banters that can end in fight with korgan if you don't sweet talk him and if you challenge him also), never liked to sweet talk him out of the fight, that's not an strong act and in roleplay terms it's what korgan despite most.
@kamuizin I was glad when G3's Tweaks mod allowed for changing Korgan's alignment to Neutral Evil. While Korgan does take a special joy in bloodshed, he seemed more concerned with gold and riches than anything. He often suggested to the PC to abandon helping someone or refuse a quest if it wasn't profitable. I have no question he's evil (although he isn't absolutely evil, since he found the enslavement of children to be distasteful). But he'll pretty much go along with anything the PC does, as long as there's profit to be had and the party's reputation doesn't get too high. Neither freedom nor order seems to matter to him.
I see Korgan as the classic evil mercenary type. He usually won't go out of his way to kill anyone or put himself in harm's way unless it's for greed, revenge, or both. Abbathor would be proud.
Besides, Dorn's evilness is much more tolerable than that of the others (eg: Korgan). He doesn't sound sadistic or demented sake for the sake of it (at least not from his bio). He's just a guy who'll show no mercy or sympathy in pursuit of his revenge, and that's pretty much it.
Yup. Which is why I would like him to become nicer, and it could make sense. Not a "good guy," just less ... jerkish than he currently sounds. Seriously that bio was like "power vs. weakness" was all that ever ran through his head. Very annoying.
Just wanted to have an option to stop the fight with him when his HP is low (there's a group of banters that can end in fight with korgan if you don't sweet talk him and if you challenge him also), never liked to sweet talk him out of the fight, that's not an strong act and in roleplay terms it's what korgan despite most.
Agreed. I could never have Korgan in my party because whenever I run an evil character he's not some sissy. Or rather, I would have to raise dead on him constantly from all the stupid banters ending in fights.
Herm, more and more I'm seeing a future evil playthrough where Anomen fails hard. And maybe keeping Keldorn or Aerie around long enough for Anomen to get in a fight, so I can accidently trip and fall and end up sheathing my dagger in his back.
No no no, I don't have latent Anomen hate remaining from my last playthrough with him where I forced myself to do his romance.
I'd like it. Not so far as to turn him paladin, but it would be nice if you could actually become friends with him and have him care about something other than strength.
Here we go. This exactly. Basically a less extreme version of Viconia. Find he has a decent, nice side to him if you befriend him but no alignment change or anything. I would love this. Unfortunately for me, all the devs have been going on about how "unapologetically evil" he is, and much worse how all his lines say "die" or "blade" and corny shit like that. He sounds quite flat so far, and the story doesn't do much to inspire any less flatness of character.
Yeah, indeed. My main point is really that I don't like the idea of spending the entire game with a certain character, have awesome adventures; fight, eat and sleep by their side for months; help them achieve their destiny and all that, to at the end find that they're still about as likely to stab me in the back as to guard me while I sleep. I'd like to think that the kind of adventures you go through in the game would form significant bonds between all but the most far-gone and heartless characters, and I like when that is reflected.
There are tons of motivations that could prevent a evil NPC of betray you, the less reasonable of them is friendship (alone at least). It can be used as an excuse but there are betters.
You can recover his soul and keep it with you to ensure Dorn's loyalty, put him under a geas, fool him in believe that you did any of the 2 options presented before, stay strongh enough so he doesn't have a reason to challenge you, help him in his personal quest of vengance to put him in debt with you, develop a friendship with him, romance him, keep an eye open to betrayals, find a soft spot on him (an old friend, his mother, his father spirit, a secret) and blackmail him in use this in case of betrayal.
There are a time in BG II Chapter 7 (Hell) that i took of Korgan, cos the selfish demon insisted on taking him, so when i put him out of the party the demon took a peasant and i sacrificed him. When i got back to Korgan to get him back, what he asked for? 500gp. Well, that's a greedy little bastard, but useful in his way, and not out of character by doing that.
@Dragonspear Myself being a two-time Anomen romance survivor (once for when he passed the Order's test and the other for when he failed it), I must say that helping him fail the test was the most satisfying of the options. . . but then there was that part where he exploded into little Anomen bits due to a critical hit by Korgan after he attacked my PC. That was nice, too.
I have to admit Anomen becomes pretty powerful after he is knighted (especially that 4 point boost to his WIS) and reaches higher levels. Too bad there wasn't a opportunity to tempt him toward Lawful Evil. It's only one step away, after all. >:->
And it does. In Hell some of the tear of bhaal options, if taken will automatic turn your alignmet to evil (neutral evil if i'm not wrong), unless if you're already evil.
Just because I made a wrong bloody decision? Bah!
You made the wrong decision in a demiplane forged by your subconscious mind which was specifically designed to gauge your moral character and readiness for the fight ahead...that is a pretty big decision :P
You made the wrong decision in a demiplane forged by your subconscious mind which was specifically designed to gauge your moral character and readiness for the fight ahead...that is a pretty big decision :P
It may be so, but if your character were a nice guy it would sound a bit like dr. Jekill and Mister Hyde ;D
And it does. In Hell some of the tear of bhaal options, if taken will automatic turn your alignmet to evil (neutral evil if i'm not wrong), unless if you're already evil.
Once I played LE wizard and after the tests she became NE. That was a little WTF-moment for me. And CN don't change their aligment after tests, as I remember
Comments
neutral evil option could retain the benefits he already has, while lawful evil could maybe result in a loss of demonic sword, but gaining charisma or wisdom plus a new inner ability.
that depends on his starting alignment as well as if he sold his soul to demon or devil. i don't think that hes been stated clearly.
It's called dragon age 2.
The game lost a bit the RPG and tactics sense to become more a hack n slash on the fights, this surely is a regression from DA:O, but to say that the NPCs relations there are too weak is a bit too much, they did a good job with the resources at hand in banter's terms. The lost in fight style that deviate from an RPG sense can't be mistaken with the NPCs behaviors.
Anders is the only NPCs that i disliked. They spoiled this character that was an nice NPC on awakening (one of the few things good in that crap excuse of an expansion in DA:O).
Merril is a bit anoying but tolerable.
on the other side, corrupting rasaad would be great, although i can't imagine a good motivation that would not be elaborate and too time consuming to implement.
PS:T's NPCs were much better established on the Law/Chaos spectrum. Ignus, Nordom, Dak'kon and Vhailor were all much more interesting in terms of their attitude towards order than their Goodness or Evilness. Ignus was one of the very few truly chaotic NPCs from any of the infinity games and he could very easily have been made chaotic evil and ended up a less compelling character for it.
It should stay that way, one changes because he is knighted and thus becomes a black and white chump for the rest of his days, the other is struggling with an inner turmoil brought to light through a romance and an emphatic Bhaalspawn.
As for Dorn, ain't gonna happen, and if it does, I demand the option of turning Keldorn or Aerie to the dark side. Mainly Keldorn, so I can lead him down the path of evil, help him slay his brethren, then be like "what have you done bro?!" and then let him see the error of his ways and then kill him. Pah! I hate the prick!
Wished to know how to make mods, have tons of ideas, but no tecnical knowledge to apply them
Besides, Dorn's evilness is much more tolerable than that of the others (eg: Korgan). He doesn't sound sadistic or demented sake for the sake of it (at least not from his bio). He's just a guy who'll show no mercy or sympathy in pursuit of his revenge, and that's pretty much it.
Just wanted to have an option to stop the fight with him when his HP is low (there's a group of banters that can end in fight with korgan if you don't sweet talk him and if you challenge him also), never liked to sweet talk him out of the fight, that's not an strong act and in roleplay terms it's what korgan despite most.
I see Korgan as the classic evil mercenary type. He usually won't go out of his way to kill anyone or put himself in harm's way unless it's for greed, revenge, or both. Abbathor would be proud.
No no no, I don't have latent Anomen hate remaining from my last playthrough with him where I forced myself to do his romance.
You can recover his soul and keep it with you to ensure Dorn's loyalty, put him under a geas, fool him in believe that you did any of the 2 options presented before, stay strongh enough so he doesn't have a reason to challenge you, help him in his personal quest of vengance to put him in debt with you, develop a friendship with him, romance him, keep an eye open to betrayals, find a soft spot on him (an old friend, his mother, his father spirit, a secret) and blackmail him in use this in case of betrayal.
There are a time in BG II Chapter 7 (Hell) that i took of Korgan, cos the selfish demon insisted on taking him, so when i put him out of the party the demon took a peasant and i sacrificed him. When i got back to Korgan to get him back, what he asked for? 500gp. Well, that's a greedy little bastard, but useful in his way, and not out of character by doing that.
I have to admit Anomen becomes pretty powerful after he is knighted (especially that 4 point boost to his WIS) and reaches higher levels. Too bad there wasn't a opportunity to tempt him toward Lawful Evil. It's only one step away, after all. >:->
You made the wrong decision in a demiplane forged by your subconscious mind which was specifically designed to gauge your moral character and readiness for the fight ahead...that is a pretty big decision :P
It may be so, but if your character were a nice guy it would sound a bit like dr. Jekill and Mister Hyde ;D
And CN don't change their aligment after tests, as I remember