What is considered 'fey' in BG?

Sids1188

A lot of my shaman spells have different effects on "spirits, fey, elementals and spectral undead" so I'm trying to figure out exactly what that entails. My understanding (mostly from NWN) is that "fey" is a term for pixies and grigs, but from my recollections of BG, I can't recall fighting any of those. Is it essentially a meaningless term in BG?

Also, what counts as "spectral undead"? From NWN, I remember that shadows and shadowfiends were considered "outsiders" and not "undead". Is that the case here? How about the ghost wolves in the ranger quest? Or is it referring more about doomguards and ulcasters ghost?

helmo1977

I think spectral undead are incorporeal undead. So that would mean wigths, wraiths, shadows and verything that looks incorporeal and it is undead. Dont know about shadow fiends. They are incorporeal, but I am not sure if they are undead or demonic.

Regarding the fey thing, in the BG game there arent many of them. Dont know if 2nd edition consider elves as fey, though.

Fardragon

No, elves aren't considered Fey. Nixies, Sirens and Dryads are.

Ithual

I don't think Wights are spectral, they are likely cadaverous

scriver

Is the term "fey" even used in the BG mechanics?

JuliusBorisov

scriver said:

Is the term "fey" even used in the BG mechanics?

Yeah, you can choose this kind of a racial enemy for your ranger in 2.0 and SoD.

Rawgrim

http://forgottenrealms.wikia.com/wiki/Fey

Hope this helps explain it.

Rawgrim

Gnomes are Fey, actually.

Sids1188

So aside from gnomes (which I suspect might not be classed as fey in BG - PC races tend to avoid such things) then, the entire fey class consists of nymphs and dryads - about a dozen enemies in the entire saga, most of which are already cleared before I'm a high enough level to learn the spells. That's... pretty underwhelming then.

I guess the bonuses against elementals are at least a little more useful.

rapsam2003

Sids1188 said:

I guess the bonuses against elementals are at least a little more useful.

It is, but it isn't. Those spells are still powerful against elementals and spectral undead. Granted, those are not very common either, but basically you will have a fair amount of opportunities to use those spells on a creature that fits the "special" category. And if I understand Shaman correctly, it's not that those spells ONLY affect spirits, fey, elementals and spectral undead either. So, you can use them effectively on creatures that are not any of those things.

Fardragon

Rawgrim said:

Gnomes are Fey, actually.

Not in 2nd edition. That came later.

Sids1188

rapsam2003 said:

And if I understand Shaman correctly, it's not that those spells ONLY affect spirits, fey, elementals and spectral undead either. So, you can use them effectively on creatures that are not any of those things.

Oh absolutely, my shaman has been spamming spirit fire at everything that moves like a slightly weaker sorceress with fireball. Up to 47% of party kills now (it was a little over 20 before I hit SoD). Just kinda hoping she would have a chance to flex her muscles against the things she's best against. It just seems like those things are rather lacking, at least depending on what spectral undead actually are and whether gnomes are really treated as fey.

Krotos

There's a quest in Bridgeford that can result in an encounter with a creature your spell is effective against.

Fardragon

There are certainly a lot more undead in SoD than there are in BG1.

I'm pretty certain you do get the bonus damage against shadows, but not against gnomes.

I haven't seen any shadow fiends in SoD, although they might spawn at higher levels or difficulty settings. They are not undead.

helmo1977

Ithual said:

I don't think Wights are spectral, they are likely cadaverous

You are right. Wights are not spectral.

helmo1977

Fardragon said:

I haven't seen any shadow fiends in SoD, although they might spawn at higher levels or difficulty settings. They are not undead.

There are lots of shadow fiends in SoA, though.

Good to confirm they are demonic and not undead. I suspectd as much, because they are inmune to fire damage, something very odd if they had been undead.

PK2748

The Gnome as Fey thing is a pathfinder invention I thought? It has no place in AD&D. Gnomes have the same sort of anti-magic nature as Dwarves in TSR's version of the game, with the same 20% chance to be unable to use magical items and the bonus saves. They are not some inherently magical fairy beings at all. Unlike Dwarves, Gnomes did stop grooming their beards long enough to puzzle out some kinds of magic but they are not inherently magical immortals like elves.

Fardragon

Gnomes are certainly fey in Pathfinder, and definetly not fey in 2nd edition. I thought it might have been something inherited from 3.5, with people posting so confidently about it. I guess they might just be confidently wrong.

joluv

helmo1977 said:

Fardragon said:

I haven't seen any shadow fiends in SoD, although they might spawn at higher levels or difficulty settings. They are not undead.

There are lots of shadow fiends in SoA, though.

Good to confirm they are demonic and not undead. I suspectd as much, because they are inmune to fire damage, something very odd if they had been undead.

Fardragon

Elves aren't fey in any edition of D&D, and they aren't fey in Pathfinder either.

lunar

helmo1977 said:

Ithual said:

I don't think Wights are spectral, they are likely cadaverous

You are right. Wights are not spectral.

Wights are cadaverous, but they use wraith animation in bg2, hence looking like spectral. I change their animation to zombie and give them a speed boost, they look like rotten cadavers but are faster and more vicious/smartthan zombies.

Wraiths and spectres are spectral, they have no flesh, just pure malevolence and hungry, cold darkness.

Rawgrim

gangler said:

I just ran a quick check on the gnome thing. Spirit Ward says it can't be cast on spirits, fey creatures, elementals, or spectral undead. You can cast it on a gnome just fine, so that should mean gnomes aren't fey.

They weren't considered Fey during the 2ed I suppose. They are now, though.

Rawgrim

Fardragon said:

Gnomes are certainly fey in Pathfinder, and definetly not fey in 2nd edition. I thought it might have been something inherited from 3.5, with people posting so confidently about it. I guess they might just be confidently wrong.

It is wrong. I checked. They are only Fey in the later editions.

Fardragon

So fey gnomes where copied FROM Pathfinder in 4th edition.

rapsam2003

Fardragon said:

So fey gnomes where copied FROM Pathfinder in 4th edition.

*upends table* FREAKIN' 4E!...

Zilber

Rawgrim said:

gangler said:

I just ran a quick check on the gnome thing. Spirit Ward says it can't be cast on spirits, fey creatures, elementals, or spectral undead. You can cast it on a gnome just fine, so that should mean gnomes aren't fey.

They weren't considered Fey during the 2ed I suppose. They are now, though.

They are not in 5th. Let's just forget 4th ever was a thing, shall we?

Rawgrim

Zilber said:

Rawgrim said:

gangler said:

I just ran a quick check on the gnome thing. Spirit Ward says it can't be cast on spirits, fey creatures, elementals, or spectral undead. You can cast it on a gnome just fine, so that should mean gnomes aren't fey.

They weren't considered Fey during the 2ed I suppose. They are now, though.

They are not in 5th. Let's just forget 4th ever was a thing, shall we?

Trying to forget 4th edition, but the stench still carries on into 5th, I'm afraid.

BelleSorciere

Fardragon said:

Elves aren't fey in any edition of D&D, and they aren't fey in Pathfinder either.

Eladrin in 4e, who are basically high elves (moon elves and sun elves in Forgotten Realms), were fey.

PK2748

gangler said:

PK2748 said:

The Gnome as Fey thing is a pathfinder invention I thought? It has no place in AD&D. Gnomes have the same sort of anti-magic nature as Dwarves in TSR's version of the game, with the same 20% chance to be unable to use magical items and the bonus saves. They are not some inherently magical fairy beings at all. Unlike Dwarves, Gnomes did stop grooming their beards long enough to puzzle out some kinds of magic but they are not inherently magical immortals like elves.

Elves aren't fey either. I ran that same check on every playable race, as well as a human sorcerer because why not. None of them are fey.

I never said elves were "fey" I said magical immortals. This is an accurate representation of elves in 2nd edition and in the source material it was stolen from

Fardragon

Zilber said:

Rawgrim said:

gangler said:

I just ran a quick check on the gnome thing. Spirit Ward says it can't be cast on spirits, fey creatures, elementals, or spectral undead. You can cast it on a gnome just fine, so that should mean gnomes aren't fey.

They weren't considered Fey during the 2ed I suppose. They are now, though.

They are not in 5th. Let's just forget 4th ever was a thing, shall we?

Vallmyr

Gnomes in 5e are fey-like at least. According to the wiki they are Fey but I suppose we'll have to wait until we have a book on the Feywild for 5e to confirm.

In 5e it says they consider good fey as friendly and Forest Gnomes are innately magical with the ability to talk to animals and are skilled in illusion magic.

"As a forest gnome, you have a natural knack for illusion and inherent quickness and stealth. In the worlds of D&D, forest gnomes are rare and secretive. They gather in hidden communities in sylvan forests, using illusions and trickery to conceal themselves from threats or to mask their escape should they be detected. Forest gnomes tend to be friendly with other good-spirited woodland folk, and they regard elves and good fey as their most important allies. These gnomes also befriend small forest animals and rely on them for information about threats that might prowl their lands."

I'm in the camp that gnomes should be considered fey or at least be fey-like. I didn't like 4e for its mechanics but having read the "Heroes of the Feywild" book I love the story potential, lore, and characters.