It was before my time. So was Baldur's Gate for that matter. I only got into it in 2008 or so. A friend from school was surprised that I've never played it so he lent me his copy. Later I bough the entire series for like 20 bucks on amazon.
Minsc is perfectly legal as a Ranger. The stat requirements for the classes only had to be met to START in that class. Once you entered that class, injuries, curses, disease and whatnot could permanently lower your scores and you would still be a member of that class. You need to have 9 STR for example to be a fighter, but once you're a fighter, your STR could go down to 3 and you can still advance as one. There is nothing illegal about Minsc at all.
If people want to complain about illegal stats, there's the 20 dex and 20 con two NPCs have. While it's certainly possible they found stat boosting books themselves, it's extremely unlikely they did so at 1st level.
Well, rules are meant to be broken. As a child of bhaal, the protagonist is by far the most unusual character in the game.
Kagain and Coran have abnormal stats because they ARE abnormal characters.
Minsc, being retarded as he is , can still be a bersenker ranger . He was trained as a ranger and remains loyal to his code of conduct .
Anomen is also a very special npc - the dev's prefered that his wisdom would reflect on his attitudes , instead of his powers. If it were thrid edition he'd be a fighter 7 / cleric 1 , and his wisdom 12 would be okay.
Don't you know? Only clerics are eligible to romance the Charname.
Is it sad I just now realized all the NPCs your Bhaalspawn can hook up with are divine spellcasters?
Kind of ironic considering they'd basically be shagging a new god. [b]There's probably something in cleric tennants forbidding hooking up with other Gods.[/b]
That is why their relationship has to end with Charname when Charname chooses to become a god.
Why exactly can't there be rangers that use 2-handed swords and heavy armor? Not all rangers use stealth in the Realms.
Agreed. There's this one called Minsc...oh yeah, the brain-damaged one lol. There's nothing that says it can't be done, but Minsc is kind of a moron in comparison to every other ranger character ever written. IF you want to look at the archetype, look at Aragorn. He doesn't don heavy armor until he's in the middle of a war and leading an army, i.e. when he sneaking isn't an option.
Nope. Brownies are small woodland creatures that cast spells.
What an odd creature. Like a Santa's workshop elf that's been hit with an ugly stick. First time I have ever heard of something like that. Not sure I would want him following me around.
Wow, I feel so old now. I not only know the brownie from 1st edition, I've actually read the Grimm's tales and Robin Hood (Retold), which it is based on. And this guy has never heard of it until now....I'm kinda depressed lol.
Again I'll point you to Dove Falconhand who I mentioned earlier in the thread. She used a longsword and plate armor and still held her own. She was seen as a very capable leader and an amazing tracker.
@Guston Rangers are good, so no. They were generally small Copper dragons of age category 1-5 (anything from a baby to an adult Dragon. The only problem was, in first edition, Dragons weren't that impressive. I mean, even Tiamat had something like 128 hit points, as stated in the back of the Dungeon Master's Guide. Dragons could only breathe 3 times a day, and it did its hit points in damage. But it only got its age category in hit points. So, say you have a Blue Dragon who is just a baby (age category 1) Blue Dragons have 8 to 10 Hit Dice. So a baby Blue Dragon could have 8 to 10 hit points. A Great Wyrm Blue Dragon had just 64 (8 times 8) to 80 (8 times 10) hit points. It got to the point where people would actually just go after dragons because they were so EASY to kill, and they had literally tons of treasure, in both coins and magic.
But Rangers could also attract a Storm Giant, 2-5 treants, 1-2 Werebears or Weretigers, 2-4 Sprites, 1 Satyr, 1-2 Brownies, 1-4 Pixies, etc. In 2e, they seriously beefed up Dragons, to the point where they were fearsome beasts. But in 1e, they were relatively easy to kill.
One thing people forget about 1st Ed dragons: no time lags between breath weapons. Every round they could breath for half their HP in BW damage. So Tiamat did 64 points of damage x 5 every round. Also, people tend to forget the lair rules and to have the dragons use the magic items in their lair. And their spells, and special abilities, and dragon fear, etc. While they were weaker in 1st Ed. than the later editions, dragons were never really as weak as people thought.
Again I'll point you to Dove Falconhand who I mentioned earlier in the thread. She used a longsword and plate armor and still held her own. She was seen as a very capable leader and an amazing tracker.
She was also the child of a goddess, a Chosen of Mystra, could wield spellfire, cast some mage spells while wearing plate armor against the normal rules, and had several other bonuses. The 7 sisters were just shy of being demigods, and that option doesn't exist for most of the characters in the realms. Again, I'm not saying it can't be done, but it's a radical exception to the norm.
I'm going to mix @SandmanCCL and Billy Joel here then.
"Exceptions are much more fun, only the norms die young" (Cue background music).
Don't get me wrong, I play PLENTY of norm characters (My current BG character is an Elven Fighter/Mage that I'..........ok bad example she is lawful good and acts like it. But my dwarven Lawful Good Fighter/Cleric is a norm and a fun one its true). But you can have a lot of fun going anywhere from a little to a lot outside the box.
If I can ever find a way to play a Human or Elven Paladin/Fighter/Ranger (3e or 3.5e), I fully intend on doing so. That said, I know she'd never be as powerful as a Fighter4/PaladinX, or a Fighter4/Ranger5/RogueX, but she'd still be fun. Sometimes overcoming the norm is what makes them most interesting.
Also fun note, apparently a lot of people on these boards like to make Minsc dual wield. Just sayin.
@NightfallRob And every dragon had a straight chance to simply be asleep in their lair and unable to defend themselves if you sneaked in, surrounded it and all attacked at once, there was a chance it would just go down. It wasn't until later that I remember DMs roleplaying Dragons as if they actually had the intelligence they were supposed to. And gave them something beyond just "Claw/Claw/Bite/Breath" They added Wing Buffet, Tail slap/whip and told DMs to roleplay a dragon as something other than a dumb beast. The only one that description would actually apply to is a White Dragon, the lowest intelligence of all the Dragons. There was an interesting Adventure published In Dungeon Magazine, towards the end of 2e, where you had to fight this white dragon these villagers were afraid of... and it turned out to be a Albino Red Dragon...
where you had to fight this white dragon these villagers were afraid of... and it turned out to be a Albino Red Dragon...
Best thing I've read in a long while, bet that party was suprised going in with all their Protection from Cold stuff and Fire Attacks, would make for one dead group!
@Amardarial Yes. The "Oh Shiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiii..." look on their faces is priceless! I also like Blaze, a red Dragon used in a couple of Adventures in Dragon Magazine. There is this one adventure in which you are in a piece of crystal shaped like a diamond that is floating in the hot updraft coming off a magma rift. What is keeping it afloat is an actual diamond in a magical room, and if you grab it, the crystal falls out of the sky and is incincerated in the lava. The catch? The Diamond is the size of a soccer ball. Most parties are going to fall into the ::Drool, Salivate.:: "MINE!!!" trap and just grab it.
Gods, Dragon had some really excellent adventures. One of my favorites is an early one that takes place on a halfling farm that is the victim of theft and pranks, including one in which the family cows are painted green. It turns out that there is leprechaun in the area, but he isn't responsible for everything- The barn burned down and that was the fault of the halfling daughter, who was with her Beau who boasted he could smoke her father's pipe. When he tried, he got sick (he'd never smoked before) and dropped the pipe, and in her rush to help him (she thought he was dying), the straw caught on fire. There is also a Dwarf working on enlarging the farm with his partner, a giant, and the Dwarf got angry because the Giant thinks he's cute and can't resist picking him up and hugging him, even when he is working- and you have to intervene in that and get them to make up. And the farmer doesn't want anyone knowing his troubles, so he has you hide in his farm wagon and tucks hay and straw in around you to hide you... And the leprechaun is causing trouble because the Dwarf enlarging the farm is digging into his hill for stone, so you have to do something there as well. There is nothing to kill, and no monsters, and for most parties, they have no clue what to do if they can't use their swords.
Until the Neutral Evil wizard is like "oh screw this I'm just going to fireball them all" and next thing you know the halfling daughter has a magical sling +5, the dwarf is a former adventurer with a +3 and Shield, the Giant throws a rock at the silly wizard and ummmmm, the leprechaun just kinda laughs.
Of course the upside is that now you have fresh roast beef!
@Amardarial Yes. The "Oh Shiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiii..." look on their faces is priceless! I also like Blaze, a red Dragon used in a couple of Adventures in Dragon Magazine. There is this one adventure in which you are in a piece of crystal shaped like a diamond that is floating in the hot updraft coming off a magma rift. What is keeping it afloat is an actual diamond in a magical room, and if you grab it, the crystal falls out of the sky and is incinerated in the lava. The catch? The Diamond is the size of a soccer ball. Most parties are going to fall into the ::Drool, Salivate.:: "MINE!!!" trap and just grab it.
Gods, Dragon had some really excellent adventures. One of my favorites is an early one that takes place on a halfling farm that is the victim of theft and pranks, including one in which the family cows are painted green. It turns out that there is leprechaun in the area, but he isn't responsible for everything- The barn burned down and that was the fault of the halfling daughter, who was with her Beau who boasted he could smoke her father's pipe. When he tried, he got sick (he'd never smoked before) and dropped the pipe, and in her rush to help him (she thought he was dying), the straw caught on fire. There is also a Dwarf working on enlarging the farm with his partner, a giant, and the Dwarf got angry because the Giant thinks he's cute and can't resist picking him up and hugging him, even when he is working- and you have to intervene in that and get them to make up. And the farmer doesn't want anyone knowing his troubles, so he has you hide in his farm wagon and tucks hay and straw in around you to hide you... And the leprechaun is causing trouble because the Dwarf enlarging the farm is digging into his hill for stone, so you have to do something there as well. There is nothing to kill, and no monsters, and for most parties, they have no clue what to do if they can't use their swords.
Sooooooooooooo much win here it's ridiculous!!!!!
That's my kind of D&D!! God still miss a old Drow Campaign I played in, had it's hack and slash but also had a ton of political intrigue, after all brute force arcane or physical or even divine isn't always enough to fend of a whole city of drow and their goddess, sometimes the smarter way is to not fight, and boy did my Drow Wizard have fun with that!
Who thinks Minsc should be changed into a berserker or barbarian for BG:EE. It's clearly more in line with his concept. I think the closest thing to a barbarian in the original rules was a ranger but that's changed now...
@CyricSpawn It's been discussed in another thread. Warriors from Rashemen are always able to rage and go berserk, no matter if they are fighters or Rangers. Minsc is just fine where he is. His stats are so low because he took a blow to the head. Once you qualify as a Ranger, you don't have to leave the class if your stats go down- only if you become a fallen ranger.
For Mages Tressym (Cats with bat wings, already mentioned in the Neera story, so they might already be added) Brownies (used to be the Go-To Familliar for LG and LN in first edition.) Owl Hawk Crow Toad Fox Squirrel Rat
Animal Companions for Rangers? Bear Wolf Eagle (it would be nice to be able to use that eagle that passes overhead as a scout for the party) Brownies Nymph Squirrel
@NightfallRob And every dragon had a straight chance to simply be asleep in their lair and unable to defend themselves if you sneaked in, surrounded it and all attacked at once, there was a chance it would just go down. It wasn't until later that I remember DMs roleplaying Dragons as if they actually had the intelligence they were supposed to. And gave them something beyond just "Claw/Claw/Bite/Breath" They added Wing Buffet, Tail slap/whip and told DMs to roleplay a dragon as something other than a dumb beast. The only one that description would actually apply to is a White Dragon, the lowest intelligence of all the Dragons. There was an interesting Adventure published In Dungeon Magazine, towards the end of 2e, where you had to fight this white dragon these villagers were afraid of... and it turned out to be a Albino Red Dragon...
The percentage asleep was contradicted in the descriptions given about a dragon always being aware of its lair and whatever and whoever is in it, so my group and I ditched the rule. If a dragon was unconscious, someone used power word stun lol. As for the intelligence, that's what the spells and special abilities were used to represent. One of my DMs randomly determined a dragon's spells for one encounter and got enchant an item. So the dragon used some of its treasure to create one use traps on the tiles in its floor that held its breath weapon. So it would fight, using standard rules, and push people into traps, and then hit them with its breath weapon all over again, and use its other spells and special abilities too. And this was a first edition dragon. People always underestimate them because their stats aren't monstrous blocks of godhood like they became in the later editions. Not that I have a problem with the later editions versions of dragons, I just tend to point out to people that 1st ed. dragons weren't the pushovers that everyone seemed to think they were.
What makes a Ranger a Ranger and not just a Fighter
Rangers, at their inception, were loosely based on Aragorn. In other words, a benevolent Fighter who's also a woodsman, a tracker and a healer. Think of it more as a Fighter kit than a different archetype. The same applies to the Paladin.
It would be nice if Rangers and Druids did have Animal Companion in Baldur's Gate games, but I'm unsure if that was even a feature in AD&D 2. It's not like Rangers or Druids suffer from not having it, in a power balancing way.
As for Minsc and Boo.. well.. I think Minsc would have Boo even if he wasn't a ranger. After all, Minsc uses Boo as a conduit for his own intelligence which really isn't all too low, if you look away from his insane semantics and ideas.. which "Boo" talks him out of.
Comments
- Would have started with a Well, rules are meant to be broken. As a child of bhaal, the protagonist is by far the most unusual character in the game.
Kagain and Coran have abnormal stats because they ARE abnormal characters.
Minsc, being retarded as he is , can still be a bersenker ranger . He was trained as a ranger and remains loyal to his code of conduct .
Anomen is also a very special npc - the dev's prefered that his wisdom would reflect on his attitudes , instead of his powers. If it were thrid edition he'd be a fighter 7 / cleric 1 , and his wisdom 12 would be okay.
Again I'll point you to Dove Falconhand who I mentioned earlier in the thread. She used a longsword and plate armor and still held her own. She was seen as a very capable leader and an amazing tracker.
One thing people forget about 1st Ed dragons: no time lags between breath weapons. Every round they could breath for half their HP in BW damage. So Tiamat did 64 points of damage x 5 every round.
Also, people tend to forget the lair rules and to have the dragons use the magic items in their lair. And their spells, and special abilities, and dragon fear, etc. While they were weaker in 1st Ed. than the later editions, dragons were never really as weak as people thought.
"Exceptions are much more fun, only the norms die young" (Cue background music).
Don't get me wrong, I play PLENTY of norm characters (My current BG character is an Elven Fighter/Mage that I'..........ok bad example she is lawful good and acts like it. But my dwarven Lawful Good Fighter/Cleric is a norm and a fun one its true). But you can have a lot of fun going anywhere from a little to a lot outside the box.
If I can ever find a way to play a Human or Elven Paladin/Fighter/Ranger (3e or 3.5e), I fully intend on doing so. That said, I know she'd never be as powerful as a Fighter4/PaladinX, or a Fighter4/Ranger5/RogueX, but she'd still be fun. Sometimes overcoming the norm is what makes them most interesting.
Also fun note, apparently a lot of people on these boards like to make Minsc dual wield. Just sayin.
where you had to fight this white dragon these villagers were afraid of... and it turned out to be a Albino Red Dragon...
Best thing I've read in a long while, bet that party was suprised going in with all their Protection from Cold stuff and Fire Attacks, would make for one dead group!
Gods, Dragon had some really excellent adventures. One of my favorites is an early one that takes place on a halfling farm that is the victim of theft and pranks, including one in which the family cows are painted green. It turns out that there is leprechaun in the area, but he isn't responsible for everything- The barn burned down and that was the fault of the halfling daughter, who was with her Beau who boasted he could smoke her father's pipe. When he tried, he got sick (he'd never smoked before) and dropped the pipe, and in her rush to help him (she thought he was dying), the straw caught on fire. There is also a Dwarf working on enlarging the farm with his partner, a giant, and the Dwarf got angry because the Giant thinks he's cute and can't resist picking him up and hugging him, even when he is working- and you have to intervene in that and get them to make up. And the farmer doesn't want anyone knowing his troubles, so he has you hide in his farm wagon and tucks hay and straw in around you to hide you... And the leprechaun is causing trouble because the Dwarf enlarging the farm is digging into his hill for stone, so you have to do something there as well. There is nothing to kill, and no monsters, and for most parties, they have no clue what to do if they can't use their swords.
Until the Neutral Evil wizard is like "oh screw this I'm just going to fireball them all" and next thing you know the halfling daughter has a magical sling +5, the dwarf is a former adventurer with a +3 and Shield, the Giant throws a rock at the silly wizard and ummmmm, the leprechaun just kinda laughs.
Of course the upside is that now you have fresh roast beef!
Touche!
But what about the fresh roast beef? Can they still have that at least?
That's my kind of D&D!! God still miss a old Drow Campaign I played in, had it's hack and slash but also had a ton of political intrigue, after all brute force arcane or physical or even divine isn't always enough to fend of a whole city of drow and their goddess, sometimes the smarter way is to not fight, and boy did my Drow Wizard have fun with that!
So what familiars would you like to see added then?
For Mages
Tressym (Cats with bat wings, already mentioned in the Neera story, so they might already be added)
Brownies (used to be the Go-To Familliar for LG and LN in first edition.)
Owl
Hawk
Crow
Toad
Fox
Squirrel
Rat
Animal Companions for Rangers?
Bear
Wolf
Eagle (it would be nice to be able to use that eagle that passes overhead as a scout for the party)
Brownies
Nymph
Squirrel
And that's just off the top of my head.
No bonus HP but useful abilities & ranger only.
As for Minsc and Boo.. well.. I think Minsc would have Boo even if he wasn't a ranger. After all, Minsc uses Boo as a conduit for his own intelligence which really isn't all too low, if you look away from his insane semantics and ideas.. which "Boo" talks him out of.