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Baeloth & M'Khiin not at Coastway Crossing?

I started my second run through of SoD, & was planning to go evil this time after my goody two shoes LG Sunsoul Monk run. But right after I zone into the Coastway Crossing zone, I see a message that M'Khiin & Dimension Door. Not long after that I see a similar message for Baeloth. When I go to the ersatz Black Pits site, nobody is there - just a few chickens & the like - unlike my first run, where a crowd was watching (& heckling) the proceedings. Baeloth & M'Khiin are nowhere to be seen.

Is there a reason for this? I have no mods installed.

Comments

  • typo_tillytypo_tilly Member Posts: 5,702
    It was a problem, but it should be fixed in the latest patch: 2.1.63.2. Can you check if you're playing with that version? Also, if the game was patched after entering the area and having them disappear, you'll have to either load a save before you entered Coastway Crossing or start a new game (hopefully not that, though).

    GenderNihilismGirdle
  • PaulGreystokePaulGreystoke Member Posts: 63
    Ah, so the problem is that I killed Baeloth back in EE?

    I went ahead & used EE Keeper to change the Global line about the dead Baeloth sprite & that fixed it. Thanks @typo_tilly!

    typo_tillyGenderNihilismGirdle
  • typo_tillytypo_tilly Member Posts: 5,702
    edited April 2016
    No problem. :) Glad it was an easy fix!

    GenderNihilismGirdle
  • vyvexthornevyvexthorne Member Posts: 58
    edited July 2016
    So if you killed Baeloth in BG1 then M'khiin does not show up as well? Since I did kill Baeloth I obviously didn't expect to find him but was just looking up M'khiin because I found armor specifically for that character.

  • MrBungleMrBungle Member Posts: 50
    I am running SoD on Steam V 2.3.67.3 and having the same problem- just chickens.

  • GallowglassGallowglass Member Posts: 3,356
    Well, since the manner of finding M'Khiin depends upon her being held captive by Baeloth, it makes story sense that if Baeloth isn't present (because he died in BG1), then you can't meet M'Khiin either.

    It seems to me a design flaw in SoD that M'Khiin's introduction was made dependent upon Baeloth's presence, when Baeloth wasn't necessarily present. I reckon the devs didn't think this through very well!

    Of course it solves the mechanical problem if Baeloth is automatically resurrected without explanation, but it's nonsense in story terms. Of course resurrection exists in the Forgotten Realms universe, but not unconditionally: if a character was chunked (or otherwise irreparably damaged) then resurrection isn't meant to be possible. Since the designers can have no way to know how Baeloth might have met his death in any particular run, it can't be possible to devise any consistent justification for Baeloth to have been resurrected. The only way to make sense of guaranteeing Baeloth's presence would be to make Baeloth unkillable in BG1 ... which could have been made to work if Baeloth were not a joinable character, but obviously makes nonsense of BG1 gameplay when Baeloth is joinable.

    Thus I don't think there's any logical answer to this, except changing the Coastway Crossing scenario so that M'Khiin can appear even if Baeloth isn't around. It needn't be a gigantic change - it could stay the same as now if Baeloth survived BG1, but with the addition of an alternate story thread in case Baeloth didn't survive BG1 (which would merge back into the existing storyline once M'Khiin is either recruited or declined). This alternate thread could be fairly basic - for example, with no Baeloth, the revived Black Pits could instead be merely some abandoned buildings which M'Khiin was exploring, but she slipped into the fighting pit and needed help to climb out, so you rescue her (new script), and thereby get the choice (new dialogue) to recruit or decline her - which wouldn't require too much new scripting and dialogue.

  • ratamoratamo Member Posts: 9
    edited January 2017
    I have the same problem. Got too annoyed by Baeloth and murdered him in the first game. Now I'd like to have him and M'Khiin with me in Siege.

    Ah, so the problem is that I killed Baeloth back in EE?

    I went ahead & used EE Keeper to change the Global line about the dead Baeloth sprite & that fixed it. Thanks @typo_tilly!

    What did you change? Using EE Keeper I found the line SPRITE_IS_DEADBAELOTH and changed it to zero in a save right before I left Baldur's gate for the first time in SoD. This didn't help - no Baeloth, no M'Khiin, no pamphlet hawker next to the pit fights. What else should I do or is this beyond repair (and me stuck with Viconia and Edwin...)?

    EDIT: Ok, I'm a dumbass. :D I didn't load the game from the one EE Keeper created but from the original. Tried the edited one after realizing this and there's Baeloth the Entertainer ready to entertain. :) All's good!

  • GallowglassGallowglass Member Posts: 3,356
    Check the value of that global again, @ratamo, to confirm that it changed successfully.

    But anyway, if you and @MrBungle are having this same problem on v2.3.67.3, then it looks as if the fix which was meant to be in v2.1.63.2 didn't work or didn't happen for some reason. Still, that was always rather a crude fix in story terms (being unconditional and unexplained resurrection of Baeloth, regardless of his fate in BG1ee), so the silver lining to this cloud might be a more nuanced fix next time ... perhaps more like what I suggested above.

    Even if it turns out that nothing can be done to change the situation in your current run, then there are worse fates than being "stuck with Viconia and Edwin" - they're both pretty useful, after all.

  • ratamoratamo Member Posts: 9
    Got it working now, no problem. Used the wrong savefile before... I don't mind playing Viconia and Edwin at all! They are interesting characters and powerful casters, but I wanted to see how M'Khiin and Baeloth work.

    An another character who got resurrected without an explanation in my game was Minsc. When the ranger asked me in Nashkel to save Dynaheir I refused... which enraged him, so I cut him down. Of course I went to the gnoll stronghold after that and released Dynaheir though. Think about the XP...

    Now in the beginning of SoD Minsc was still quite alive and well with Dynaheir in Three Old Kegs. No explanation given in the discussion I had with them.

    Gallowglass
  • ZaghoulZaghoul Member, Moderator Posts: 4,132
    It is like that with all npc's that can join in SoD. Everyone gets raised if dead EXCEPT Baeloth.

    I guess nobody wanted to raise him. Yeah, I spose we could say Dorn's helper raised him, and maybe Monty and Xzar get dug up again by the Zhents. But, I mean really, I dumped alota folks into the swamps and I am sure most of the rest ended up as wolf scat or some such thing.
    Actually it might change a few runs(and quests) if ANY of the deaths 'kept' into BG2. Spose that would have to be a major mod though, considering existing story lines. I realize Beamdog had to go with existing things with BG2 though.

    But yep, hope the bug gets fixed.

  • typo_tillytypo_tilly Member Posts: 5,702
    If anyone is seeing this in the latest patch, could you upload a save right before you enter the Coastway Crossing map? I could submit a new ticket.

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