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Anomen and Haer'Dalis are cool.

2

Comments

  • TanthalasTanthalas Member Posts: 6,738
    Delvarian said:


    Anomen: Why I once defeated a group of sixteen Ogre Mages singlehandedly without breaking a sweat, and armed with only a pointy stick.

    Wtf? I thought the Cleric ethos prevented them from stabbing other creatures with pointy things. Anomen is a big fat liar.

    cyberhawkthespace
  • DelvarianDelvarian Member Posts: 1,232
    Tanthalas said:



    Wtf? I thought the Cleric ethos prevented them from stabbing other creatures with pointy things. Anomen is a big fat liar.

    I believe he is, his stories always came off as false to me.

  • KlonoaKlonoa Member Posts: 93
    edited October 2012
    @Delvarian

    Aww come on, that's a little ott. If you don't cuss Anomen out the PCs response is pretty much "Yes Anomen, whateeeeevver you say" (I imagine much eye rolling) because everyone knows hes full of garbage. I doubt the writers perspective was that women drool over being treated like idiots, but on the flip side if there had been women involved in writing that, a response along the lines of "Yes Anomen, I'm a woman and I'm *that* badass" or "Well let me beat you to a bloody pulp and see if you still feel that way" would almost have certainly been included.

    I would love to see a decent evil romance for ladies. Passionate, fiery and then just burns and crashes, with some betrayal and drama involved :D

    BrudeDragonspearSyntia13Vbibbi
  • KosonKoson Member Posts: 284
    I think they are both great NPCs and extremely powerful / fun to have in a group, specially if you mix alignments / personality.
    For many Anomen is anything but funny but I remember fondly Jan and Korgan (and not only them) mocking him. I also find his romance well written and on par with the female ones. True he acts like an arrogant, prideful, chauvinistic pig and most people hate him for it, but nobody's perfect. The powerful (if negative) feelings he still causes are a testament to the skill he was written with. I can understand the hate as he is the only option for female PCs (even though he has two paths), but would he have been appreciated more as a male version of Aerie, incessantly whining and needing constant pampering / attention, acting like a fragile, wilting flower? I doubt it.

    All the NPCs in BG2 are pretty awesome but I've frequently been impressed by the raw beatdown I'm able to do with Anomen. And to whomever said Gauntlets of Dex: It's a shame there's only the one pair because it makes using Anomen and Keldorn in the same group less than ideal which is a shame because they play off each other rather well, but the only other NPC who really desires them is Korgan. I don't see many Anomen parties rolling with Korgan, although maybe I should give that a true because that seems fun.

    True, Anomen is a beast in battle, and yea is a shame there's only one pair of Dex gauntlets as both him and Keldorn desperately need it. Is one reason Keldorn never spends much time in my parties, the other being that Anomen and him will come to blows once the former fails his test/trial. Mixing Anomen with Korgan is fun and they complement each other well on the front-line.
    I mostly want to see Korgan taunt Anomen until he snaps when I make Anomen rage-psycho-murder Saerk.
    Never happened in my games and I almost always go that way with Anomen.
    Syntia13 said:

    The breaking point for me was his reaction to the kidnappers' quest.

    We have just dug up a man who'd been buried alive after his kidnappers received the ransom. What is the reaction of the ever so righteous, noble sir Anomen? "This is such petty/insignificant/unimportant task, why should we bother with it?" (not the exact quote, obviously, but that was the gist of it).

    Well, while doing Jan's quest with the sick girl you have to save, everybody including the high and noble LG NPCs joke and dismiss it in their comments while mocking Jan with a vengeance, and Anomen is the only one who takes it seriously and even chides the others pointing a child's life is at stake. So while he might not care much about a random commoner's fate, he places a higher value on a child's life than any of your other party members (the gist of whose comments is exactly the summary of your quote).

  • Syntia13Syntia13 Member Posts: 514
    Koson said:

    Well, while doing Jan's quest with the sick girl you have to save, everybody including the high and noble LG NPCs joke and dismiss it in their comments while mocking Jan with a vengeance, and Anomen is the only one who takes it seriously and even chides the others pointing a child's life is at stake. So while he might not care much about a random commoner's fate, he places a higher value on a child's life than any of your other party members (the gist of whose comments is exactly the summary of your quote).

    Huh. I didn't know that. I might have to revise my opinion of him a bit. But only a little bit! :P

    BaldursCat
  • Awong124Awong124 Member Posts: 2,643
    I've used Haer'Dalis in my party before, and he's alright, I don't really understand all the hate towards him. I've never used Anomen, so I can't say.

  • sandmanCCLsandmanCCL Member Posts: 1,389
    Re: Anomen's 12 wisdom.

    He loses out on 2 first level spells when compared to Jaheira (but is single-class cleric so he makes up for that by leveling faster) and another 2 second level spells to Aerie (see previous comment about Jaheira.) Viconia wins in the Wisdom department but that's totally fine because someone has to be best at it.

    And that's just until he completes knighthood. Then the low wisdom problem ceases to exist.

    It's all low level spells anyway. Yeah it's nice to have a few more Hold Person's but by the time I've got access to 4th and 5th level divine spells, I'm not really worried about losing out a couple cure minor wounds and hold persons. He's kind of proof that high wisdom doesn't matter a whole lot beyond your first couple levels of adventuring, which are already over just at the outset of BG2.

    He's got enough levels of fighter to gain bonus attacks per round, has default 18 strength which combined with DUHM makes him super strong right out of the gate, and can still get grand mastery in weapons.

    I realize people's beef with him has nothing to do with his combat prowess, but boy I tell you what. It really helps endear him to me. I buy into his early knighthood exploits because I've seen him ravage some poor bastards.



    Also, I think it's great having him and Yoshimo in the party. Yoshimo is totally sarcastic and needlessly praising and Anomen just eats it up. Stuff like that cracks me up.

    sarevok57BaldursCatBelgarathMTH
  • BaldursCatBaldursCat Member Posts: 432

    Stop the hating. :(

    Anomen is a blowhard but whom you can teach the error of his ways. I think that's a pretty cool concept for an NPC. Also, he's voiced by Rob Paulsen which is instant win. NARF!

    Agreed, some of his dialogues do get on my nerves and it would be nice to have some of the Charname responses to them expanded as, at present, the only replies you can give which don't break the romance make Charname seem like a doormat but overall I love the concept that you can have such a positive (or negative) effect on him.

  • sarevok57sarevok57 Member Posts: 4,646
    @Tanthalas remember he has 7 levels of fighter, those were back in his fighter days :), one time he was talking about taking out a wyvern with a spear, so when he was a fighter he was poking many things

  • AHFAHF Member Posts: 1,376
    I rarely use Haer'Dalis but have taken him through SOA twice for the express purpose of seeing him go after Aerie and it hasn't triggered either time. Any suggestions? I have picked up Aerie first and then Haer'Dalis shortly thereafter. Does Haer'Dalis need to be in the party first? I would be frustrated to go through it all again and have nothing kick in again.

    With Anomen, I have always found him too obnoxious to handle but am looking forward to running him through on a CN path for the first time. I do think he wouldn't be so much resented if there were alternative romance paths with Haer'Dalis and another male, just like I think Aerie would be more resented if she was the only romance available.

  • sandmanCCLsandmanCCL Member Posts: 1,389
    edited October 2012
    kamuizin said:



    He's a warrior too with 18/xx strenght (don't remember exactly those xx numbers) and is the ONLY FIGHTER/PRIEST dual class in game that can grandmaster a weapon proficience, cos a char name fighter/priest dual class is restricted to only ** stars in any weapon proficience, besides the fact he has a high constitution too.

    The way strength breaks down:

    Valygar, Keldorn, Yoshimo and Haer'Dalis: 17 (+1 hit, +1 damage)
    [Someone equipped with Mauler's Arm]: 18 (+1 hit, +2 damage)
    [Someone other than the following NPCs buffed with "Strength"]: 18/50 (+1 hit, +3 damage)
    Anomen: 18/52 (+2 hit, +3 damage)
    Korgan: 18/77 (+2 hit, +4 damage)
    Minsc: 18/93 (+2 hit, +5 damage)
    Sarevok: 18/00 (+3 hit, +6 damage)
    Anomen buffed with Draw Upon Holy Might: 21+

    I think they shoulda boosted Keldorn's strength to some 18/01-50 value, just so the entire gamut of strength bonuses was represented in NPC land.

    BaldursCat
  • kamuizinkamuizin Member Posts: 3,680
    edited October 2012
    By the way as someone asked the other NPCs reactions to Anomen are:


    Aerie - don't like him too much. Obs: Chaotic Neutral Anomen will attack aerie after a while.
    Minsc - No problems with Anomen, but besides Edwin, Minsc don't have problems with no one.
    Jaheira - Will try to boss around Anomen like a mother. He don't like much but only argue with her 1 or time if i'm not wrong.
    Nalia - get along with anomen pretty well, but i don't usually use Nalia so i don't remember all the banters well.
    Korgan - will have some spiced banters with anome, teasing him and even calling him of hypocrite (Korgan see the evil potential in Anomen clearly).
    Vaylgar - don't remember.
    Mazzy - don't remember.
    Keldorn - Keldorn try to advice Anomen and he try to cast off any attempt of Keldorn of teach him something. If Anomen become Lawful Good he will apologise to Keldorn, if Anomen become Chaotic Neutral eventually he will attack keldorn after a banter.
    Viconia - Both get along pretty well, more than i thougth for in the first time i used them togheter in the party.
    Edwin - Will get along with Anomen pretty well besides some first banters where Anomen show some despise for Edwin.
    Jan Jansen - Will mess with Anomen in some so hilarious forms that i truly don't know how those jokes didn't become a fight, it's fucking hilarious to see how Jan make jokes of Anomen.
    Haer'Dalis - Don't remember.
    Crend - Don't remember.
    Yoshimo - Yoshi will flatter Anomen's deeds (falsely flatters of course), but Anomen is so much full of himself to perceive that Yoshi doesn't truly mean those compliments.
    Imoen - don't remember.
    Sarevok - Don't remember.


    PS: The only lack in Anomen scripts, is that not only the party NPCs but the non-joinable NPCs don't treat/act/talk with Anomen different after the order trial, so besides the instant banters Anomen get after fail/sucess in the order test, and besides the fight banters between CN Anomen and Keldorn/Aerie, all the other banters in the game will treat him equal.

  • ShandyrShandyr Member Posts: 8,263
    @kamuizin

    Do you remember why exactly CN Anomen attacks Aerie? What is their banter like?

  • Son_of_ImoenSon_of_Imoen Member Posts: 1,755
    edited October 2012
    I like Anomen for his combat prowess. Because he levels up purely in the cleric class, he gets access to high-level Cleric spells more quickly than Aerie. And if you're lucky, he starts with a high amount of xp already (He was Cleric level 11 when I recruited him fresh at the Copper Coronet with my level 10 Blade). That said, my Blade was kind of a powerhouse, with 19 STR and DEX and good CON as well and was a lot more fearsome in battle than Haer'Dalis, who needed more care than my Bhaalspawn Blade did, who often needed just his bracers and a single blur or stoneskin to stay alive, whereas Haer'Dalis fell quickly if too many of his buffs got dispelled or ran out. Thus less love for Haer'Dalis from me, but the competition is unfair I admit.

    I found Anomen more tolerant the further I went, I didn't really notice it consciously, but it must be for what is mentioned above: he becomes less brash en arrogant after he completed the knighthood test. And for my charname's who have him in the party, they put up with his attitude because of his usefulness. With the NPC-kits mod that gives him the Helm kit with a number of True Sights per day depending on level, he becomes just as handy as Keldorn in dealing with invisible enemies.

    But I admit as a romance option he's awful. When reading he's the only female romance option I started thinking *??* My Totemic Druid is a female and has Anomen in her party, why didn't I see any romance? Than I realized there weren't any talks after Amniralda told her frank opinion when Anomen said he couldn't believe what she had done for the Swordcoast as she's a woman. A man who can't deal with an honest rebuff to that chauvinistic male bovine excrements, isn't worth a romance with my Amniralda anyway.

    DragonspearLadyRhianrufus_hobart
  • kamuizinkamuizin Member Posts: 3,680
    edited October 2012
    @Shandyr

    Aerie try to calm down him and that enrage him instead and attack her (he become a bit insane if he fails the test).

    More info:
    http://www.sorcerers.net/Games/BG2/Walkthrough2/npcs/anomen.php




    @Son_of_Imoen are you sure that the romance finshed in that part? Cos it's uncommon.
    The romance guide:

    BG2: SoA Romancing Guide by Extremist (Submitted) found in http://www.sorcerers.net/Games/BG2/index_tips.php detail the romance very well, you can report to it to solve doubts and even force by CLUAConsole the restart of the romance.


    So to spoil the romance in the first banter you used the following dialogue line:

    ANOMEN: I prithee, my lady...it fills me with no small amount of wonder that you have not asked me of my journeys ere we met? We have traveled a short while, and yet we know next to nothing of each other. (ANOMEN67)

    FEMALE MAIN CHAR: "Alright, then...tell me of your journeys, if you wish."

    ANOMEN: There is precious little to tell, although my few adventures have been glorious, indeed. The path to knighthood is a long one, however...hence the need for my travels. But a few of my deeds have reached the ears of bards. Battle is commonplace enough throughout Amn, and the Order has fielded its army many times in recent years. Most recently, however...let me think...I was with our men when the orcs came down into the Ommlur Hills once again. In great numbers, they are a force to fear...but individually, they are no match for a warrior. I, myself, was able to fight through many of them alone and take the head of one of their foul chieftans.

    FEMALE MAIN CHAR: "That hardly sounds likely."

    ANOMEN: You wound me, fair lady. I may focus on my deeds more than those of some of my brothers-in-arms, but they are the truth. Is there reason for you to doubt me so?

    FEMALE MAIN CHAR: "Your tales have the ring of self-importance and an overblown imagination, Anomen."


    The first banter of Anomen is pretty respectful in his own way, this line sequence that i put in spoiler advice above is THE ONLY ONE that would spoil the romance in the first banter, and if you did that believe me it's obvious the romance would be screwed that way.

    The guide above can help anyone that wish to control the "ignoreanomenn" script also.

  • ShandyrShandyr Member Posts: 8,263
    edited October 2012
    @kamuizin

    "If you order Aerie to run around for a while, he will stop automatically."

    This calms me down :)
    I'm one of those few people who actually like Aerie^^


    Btw, actually I never liked Anomen. But when you said:

    "The most fun part in Anomen romance, is that in a world of fantasy, he's pratically the only true human there, arrogant, naive, shortminded sometimes, ambitious and most than anything, he changes, he changes a lot. The Anomen in end of ToB is compelty different than the Anomen you meet in Copper Coronet, both the Lawful Good (best in bonus terms) and the Chaotic Neutral (best in storyline terms) had an extremly positive evolution in their personalities."

    This has really intrigued me. I think I can see him in a different light now and I'm curious of how he changes during ToB. So maybe I'll take him along next time.

    I would just have to decide whether to let him fail the test or not... but since my PC would be chaotic neutral I think thats not a hard decision to make.

    BaldursCat
  • Lord_GayLord_Gay Member Posts: 94
    Koson said:

    I can understand the hate as he is the only option for female PCs (even though he has two paths), but would he have been appreciated more as a male version of Aerie, incessantly whining and needing constant pampering / attention, acting like a fragile, wilting flower? I doubt it.

    My complaint about all the romances was how there was too much negative and nowhere near enough positive. They all complain and whine and are generally unpleasant people. I don't know if I'd want any of them as friends, let alone partners. I hope the new romances put more emphasis on positive banters.

    BrudeDragonspearCommunard
  • LockLock Member Posts: 84
    All I have to say, in regards to the title of this topic (because that's all I'm going to read..), is: NO!

  • Son_of_ImoenSon_of_Imoen Member Posts: 1,755
    kamuizin said:


    The first banter of Anomen is pretty respectful in his own way, this line sequence that i put in spoiler advice above is THE ONLY ONE that would spoil the romance in the first banter, and if you did that believe me it's obvious the romance would be screwed that way.

    The lines that you showed, hidden in the spoiler section, actually sound like a very likely answer from Amniralda. I won't try mending the romance, it's been months since I cut him short (well not in game time, but in Son of Imoen time, though in game time it's a difference between somewhere in the beginning of chapter 2 till the Underdark). Maybe I'll try out the romance with another character. Actually, romances are the part of the game that interest me the least, storyline comes first, tactics second, interaction with npc's comes third, romantic interactions are only fourth on my list of interests (so I didn't feel very sad about having cut the romance short).

    Dragonspear
  • trinittrinit Member Posts: 677
    i like anomen for reasons kamuizin has stated already.
    i wish they had put some bonuses for him failing his test (like becoming part berserker as in some mod),
    he should talk less about order of radiant fart after becoming chaotic and STOP worshiping helm when chaotic.

    in tob i was really bothered with the last comment (when you decide to reject godhood) when his voiced line sounds sound casual and fake. he sounds like he's being sarcastic... i still remember the awkwardness of that voice :/

    haerdalis usually bores me. maybe more interaction would change my mind.

  • SharGuidesMyHandSharGuidesMyHand Member Posts: 2,471
    edited October 2012

    Stop the hating. :(

    Anomen is a blowhard but whom you can teach the error of his ways. I think that's a pretty cool concept for an NPC. Also, he's voiced by Rob Paulsen which is instant win. NARF!

    My problems with Anomen are...

    ** SPOILERS galore!! **

    IMO, he has the potential to develop into one of the better NPCs in the game, but only AFTER...
    1. you get him the gaunts of dexterity,
    2. you find some of the top quality maces/ war hammers in the game (ie: mace of disruption, crom faeyr),
    and,
    3. he becomes SIR Anomen and gets 16 wisd.

    ...all of which can take quite a bit of time and effort.

    When you first find him, he's actually one of the more mediocre NPCs in the game IMO. Although he may have better fighting ability than a typical cleric, his potential as a fighter is not fully capitalized on IMO - he is still restricted to the weapon's allowed for clerics, and personally, I would've preferred that he had more than just two prof points in any one weapon before dualing, which to me is the main advantage of being a fighter.

    While his dext can be built up with the gaunts, this also means that you can't give the gaunts to someone else in your party who might also need them (specifically, Keldorn).

    As for his quest, I have issues with this as well. Yes, on one hand, I appreciate the fact that it results in a major change in character. On the other hand...
    1. No matter what course of action you tell him to take, it turns out to be the "wrong" course - if you tell him to kill his father's enemy, it turns out he was innocent; but if you tell him to let the guy go, then his father will get killed as well. Either way, your char is made to look like a fool, and your "advice" results in tragedy. The game should've been consistent and let it turn out that the father's enemy was innocent, and prudence paid off.
    2. Choosing the "right" path (letting the father's enemy go) means placing implicit faith and trust in a legal system that the game otherwise clearly criticizes as corrupt and useless (ie: allowing slavers & Shadow Thieves to run rampant, giving Cowled Wizards unchecked power, etc.). To me, BG2 had a very good moral "lesson," which was to question authority, especially unchecked authority (which is especially relevant in today's political climate IMO). Also, unless your char happens to be lawful good, advising Anomen to "let the law do its work" completely contradicts your char's actions and personality - after all, how many countless people have YOU killed on your way to getting to this point?

    CommunardMornmagor
  • SharGuidesMyHandSharGuidesMyHand Member Posts: 2,471
    On a side note, people have often talked about Anomen as "an inherently good char who was hampered by flaws." I always looked at him the other way around: an inherently NEUTRAL, indifferent char who tried to be something he wasn't, either to prove a point (impress his father) or because he had been led to believe this is what was expected of people. Consequently, trying to be something he isn't has torn him apart inside. From a purely RP perspective, I think it is more appropriate that he fails his test.

    Which raises another issue I have with Anomen's quest: I think there should be an upside to his failing his test - perhaps he becomes a better fighter, such as gaining a "berserk" or "rage" ability. Also, I think there should be a way for him to "find himself" and find contentment if he fails his test - especially if you are romancing him, then your char could "guide him" to this contentment, and the two live happily ever after.

  • BelgarathMTHBelgarathMTH Member Posts: 5,399
    Here's my two cents: My beloved Ano is hands down my favorite BG2 character. I can't imagine playing BG2 without him. LOL, sorry, @Dragonspear.

    I may just be blinded by his handsomeness. I put up with a lot of his crap just because I think he's so drop-dead, *gorgeous*. I do wish the voice-acting with the Quixotic characature accent were a bit toned-down. I probably would be far less tolerant of his attitude if he was an ugly guy, but his good looks wind up making his cocky attitude even *more* appealing to me.

    As far as game play, he's a high level cleric with a free seven levels of fighter, and an 18/** strength. I think that makes him one of the most powerful NPC's in the game. He and either Minsc, Jaheira, or Keldorn always hold the front line in my parties. I usually don't even bother having him memorize healing spells, because I think healing is counter to his character. Instead, I fill up his spell list with Remove Fear, Doom, Draw Upon Holy Might (usually *all* second level spell slots go to DUHM), Remove Paralysis, Protection from Evil 10', and Chaotic Commands. Sometimes I fill a few of his slots with heals, but he only uses them on himself if I do. I imagine him as having a Wolverine-like self-healing superpower. The guy's about as close as you can get to having Superman in your party.

    With apologies to all the people who don't like him, and you have legitimate reasons to feel that way, I just love the guy. Absolutely love him. And all I have to do for him to love me back is to stroke his ego? Come over here, Ano, honey, you magnificent, big, strong, beast.

    Oh, yeah - Haer D'alis. I've never played with him much, but I like him. I think he's cute, and I like the way he calls me "his sparrow". I've read that there was originally a PC romance planned with him. Too bad they didn't finish it, and wound up scrapping it.

    sandmanCCLKosonBrude
  • DragonspearDragonspear Member Posts: 1,823
    @SharGuidesMyHand

    Apparently there is a flaw in the dual classing system that allows your dual class characters to go beyond 2 proficiency points in a weapon even after they're no longer their fighter class.

    Also I agree with you that there should be an upside to a Anomen that fails his test other than chunking Aerie.

  • DragonspearDragonspear Member Posts: 1,823
    @belgarathmth

    As I said I think most of my problem with him stems from the fact that he's the only female romance option. I'll still likely bring him on more parties because OVERALL I do like his character, I just hate the romance between him.

    And I like his character in that I can tell him to shut up and get off his high horse often. I note that he DOES change his perspective over time, but getting through that initial part, especially if you want to romance him. Well its understandable that it makes a lot of us females grumpy.

    And as someone pointed out, we apparently can ignore him, but there are only a couple times we can directly shut him down and not terminate the romance. I mean, I don't particularly care for Aerie's attitude much either in this game and I use her a lot less often than Anomen. I really do need to give these characters full play throughs (well maybe see what Anomen's like when he fails. I like him to be my tank already though), before I truly make my judgements.

  • sandmanCCLsandmanCCL Member Posts: 1,389
    This probably doesn't come as a shocker to anyone but I really like Aerie, too, from a personality perspective. Reminds me a lot of the girl I tried to date over the summer, actually. I'm a sucker for damaged people.

    From what I hear about Rasaad, he seems up my alley too. Dealing with the loss of a brother and all that; I find stories like that very compelling.

    As far as romances go, I find the Jaheira one to be the most believable out of all of them. Viconia is too drow-y to fall in love, I feel. The Aerie one starts off pretty silly (it's pretty patronizing for the first while) but I think develops into a pretty good narrative by ToB. Gotta love the meek wallflower type that discovers a backbone and kicks ass in the process.

    But the Jaheira one just struck me as the most... canon? And not just because she's part of the canon party from BG1. Her husband dies and she finds comfort in a boon companion type thing. That just seems very real to me.

  • BrudeBrude Member Posts: 560
    Wow! You guys have a startlingly high tolerance for nonsense from video game characters. (Either that, or oh man I'm really just a jerk).

    Five seconds after Aerie first opened her mouth, I booted her from the party. Could. Not. Stand. Her.

    Awong124Jatrrr
  • Awong124Awong124 Member Posts: 2,643
    Brude said:

    Wow! You guys have a startlingly high tolerance for nonsense from video game characters. (Either that, or oh man I'm really just a jerk).

    Five seconds after Aerie first opened her mouth, I booted her from the party. Could. Not. Stand. Her.

    Or just kill her when she looks like an ogre.

  • QuartzQuartz Member Posts: 3,832
    edited October 2012

    Also, I think it's great having him and Yoshimo in the party. Yoshimo is totally sarcastic and needlessly praising and Anomen just eats it up. Stuff like that cracks me up.

    I miss having Yoshimo in my party.

    I never take him now for ...

    ahh ...

    reasons. ;)

    You know. You work your ass off to make him totally awesome and legit, and then he betrays you and dies no matter what. Cool shit.

    Eadwyn_G8keeper
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