New Kits: Dual-Class pre-reqs ?

Sharguild

I'm trying some of the "new kits" (new to me) and discovered an issue that a forum search did not enlighten.
I wished to dual a Shadow Dancer to Mage.
Created the SD, no problems.
I was of the impression I met the pre-req for mage (18 Int), I'm good.
On char level 2, I notice no dual-class button.

Thanks to these forums, I discovered I need a pre-req to dual "out of" Shadow Dancer and my Charisma was below 15 ( would be nice if class description page mentioned this).
What?
A score is required to dual class 'out of' a class?

I started over and decided I would try Swashbuckler to Mage instead.
Met all stats (I guess), at level two the dual class button illuminated.
So I'm planning on taking the Shwashy to 7 then jump to Mage.

Question;
Are there other new kits you need a pre-req score to dual 'out of' ?

Ta

TheArtisan

You always had a pre-requisite. The shadowdancer is especially strict, but you need 15 in your primary stat (strength for fighters, intelligence for mages, etc.) You probably just never noticed that because you'd normally have a high primary stat anyways.

Sharguild

Artemius_I said:

You always had a pre-requisite. The shadowdancer is especially strict, but you need 15 in your primary stat (strength for fighters, intelligence for mages, etc.) You probably just never noticed that because you'd normally have a high primary stat anyways.

Thanks much.
You're right I suppose, I just never noticed before because I always met the stats.
Curiously though, it makes we wonder how I was able to "create" a Shadow Dancer without the min 15 Charisma then?
Anyone know of a forum post that idents the stats?

Ta

Gotural

You need at least 15 in Dexterity, Strength and Charisma to dual from Shadowdancer, plus 17 Intelligence to dual into Mage.

It's actually written at the very end of the kit description

Zilber

The minimum is 12, the minimum for dual classing is 15. Somehow second edition has the idea you have to be particularely good at something to try something else.

Sharguild

Well actually, the quote at the end states:
"Prime requisites for Dual Classing: Strength, Dexterity and Charisma".
I was of the impression this meant to dual class "into" Shadow Dancer, not out of.
And perhaps mentioning the scores, would take perhaps 30 more seconds of writing by the developers?

I know the scores required to dual "into" the BASE classes.

Thanks anyway.

Zilber

The primes need to be 15 to get out, and 17 to get into a class. In BG, you cannot dual into a kit.

The whole thing is off, if I want to play someone who is quite bad at being the cleric dad wanted him to be, I can't take up the magebook if I'm not in the top 2% int wise and top 10% wis wise. (Calculated 3d6)

smeagolheart

I would be as confused as you here. The other thief kits don't have charisma as a stat requirement to be able to dual out of do they?

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Zilber

subtledoctor said:

Zilber said:

The whole thing is off, if I want to play someone who is quite bad at being the cleric dad wanted him to be, I can't take up the magebook if I'm not in the top 2% int wise and top 10% wis wise. (Calculated 3d6)

It's super easy to mod this...

Correct, and bg uses 4d6 discard lowest (optional rule), and rerolls, and gatekeeper.

My beef was with the original, meant for 3d6, in order that you rolled them, d&d rules. This means an average of 63, and no choosing what goes where. They made a system that can only be used by under 1% of the characters made by the original ruleset, if they play human.

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Zilber

Well, trying to fix second is going to end up in tears.
While 4th seems the most ready to convert to computer or boardgame, I think 5th is the best edition yet for p&p while still allowing computerisation, and Beamdog seems willing to give it a try.

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rapsam2003

subtledoctor said:

Zilber said:

Well, trying to fix second is going to end up in tears.

No - it could be great. If there was a way to switch a character from multiclass to dual-class, it would be amazing. You can do it with NI or EEKeeper, but Beamdog has not enable any mechanism to do it in the game.

Probably because the P&P 2E doesn't allow you to do choose between those two. You either play as a human and dual class OR play as another race and multiclass. That's how it works. That's how it should work, honestly...unless we don't care about the official 2E rules in the slightest. LOL

Zilber said:

Well, trying to fix second is going to end up in tears.
While 4th seems the most ready to convert to computer or boardgame, I think 5th is the best edition yet for p&p while still allowing computerisation, and Beamdog seems willing to give it a try.

Zilber said:

and Beamdog seems willing to give it a try.

*Double quoted the part that jumped out at me for emphasis*

Hmm? What do you mean by this? Did I miss some announcement?!

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rapsam2003

subtledoctor said:

Well, yeah, that's why I'm saying they should give us the tools to mod the game - as in "modify." I'm not saying they should change how the game works. Just, let me change how the game works...

I definitely agree. WeiDU is one thing, but an actual Mod Toolset like the Aurora Engine had would be...AMAZING!

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rapsam2003

subtledoctor said:

Toolset? Forget it. All I want for Christmas is

 opcode 368: Set OriginalClass

https://youtu.be/wm7GIeiQolQ?t=6s

Would that ever be great?!