Wild Mages are chaos given form - they can either be super-awesome, completely disastrous, normal, or simply ineffective. If you don't like randomness, don't play a Wild Mage. Meanwhile, I'll go back to my playthrough of six Wild Mages in BG2. I've only had a party-roasting fireball dropped on them once and I'm only halfway through Chapter 2!
i've done a complete run as wild mage with easy tutu from bg1, all the way through 2.
while i've had a few annoying effects, I think i only had 2-3 game enders the entire time. and 2 times where it reset my gold to 0. Which was for me a reset as well.
Besides that, it was a rather fun class to play. Later on wild mages are stronger than sorcerers, as their level increases the chances for bad shit is so low, nahlhals reckless dweoemer is instant cast, so you can essentially cast 9 spells in one round. no problem. grant this is higher level but at level 18 ish, you can cast 9 horrid wiltings, 5 of them go off as normal, 2 do something with some added benifit. and 2 don't work/different spell/something bad. That was about my situation.
I like Wild Mages the way they are. If you toned down their bad sides, you'd have to tone down the good sides too and that would make the class less exciting. It's definitely not to everyone's taste and it will never be my standard character but it gives a more unique playing experience and that's awesome.
Lower levels might be a problem though, not having tried a Wild Mage in BG1Tutu. Most of the kits aren't particularly balanced for a BG1 game. Maybe if the level of spell cast affected the possible surge it would better please everyone? I.e. lower level spells are limited from the best and worst of the surges, and with higher spells comes higher risk/reward. At least that way you're protected from the worst until you can get Improved Chaos Shield etc.
I played a wild mage many times and it's not stupid, nor a game ender. It is damn powerful though. Everyone can look at statistics, but statistics are whatever you want them to be. Anyone actually tried playing one before calling it stupid? I found myself reloading a lot more because of traps or enemies than a wild surge. Does that mean traps and bad guys are stupid and should be modded out?
Reckless Dweomer is meant to be used as last resort... so if anyone is looking at the percentage of it, and planning to use it every fight, you're doing it wrong.
I've even finished this game with Charname as a wild mage and can barely remember doing any reloading because of a wild surge. It's probably less than 10 in over 80 hours of gameplay.
In addition, it's not a straight "25%" are game-enders. It's hardly 25% that will make you reload... and whatever the real number is, it becomes even smaller as you level.
Oh come on guys, it's not like gold is exactly rare in BG. Occasionally losing some might actually make me conserve resources rather than clearing out every merchant...
What this all means is that there is around a 9% chance to succeed at casting the spell you intended with dweomer, +1% per wild mage level, and +15%(L2)/+25%(L7) with a shield on (can only have one shield on). With a random wild surge, you don't add the wild mage's level to the calculation.
Therefore,
(1) A level 1 wild mage will have a 10% chance to succeed at casting what was intended with the dweomer, a 9% chance on a random wild surge.
(2) A level 6 wild mage with chaos shield on will have a 30% chance to successfully cast the intended spell with the dwoemer, but a 24% chance during a random wild surge. The chance will still be 9% if there is no shield during a random surge (the result of the 1d100 is literally what you get).
(3) A level 31 wild mage with improved chaos shield on will have a 65% chance with the dwoemer, but a 34% chance with a random wild surge. The chance will still be 9% if there is no shield during a random surge (the result of the 1d100 is what you will get).
1 Repulsion field centered on the caster 2 Wild color changes upon the caster 3 Squirrels appear around caster 4 The caster becomes itchy 5 The caster glows 6 A Fireball centers on the caster 7 The caster's sex is changed 8 The caster's color changes 9 Every one in the area changes direction 10 Explosion centered on caster 11 Entangle spell centered on caster 12 Slow spell centered on target 13 Target polymorphed into a wolf 14 Caster held 15 Caster hasted 16 Caster changed into a squirrel 17 Gold on the caster is destroyed 18 Target weakened 19 Sunfire spell centered on caster 20 Movement rate lowered on target 21 Fireball centered on caster 22 Caster held as per spell Hold Person 23 Fear spell centered on target 24 Roll twice more. Both effects apply 25 Entire area explored 26 Globe of Invulnerability centered on target 27 Silence 15' radius centered on caster 28 Caster dizzy 29 Target invisible 30 Pretty sparkles! No other effect 31 Caster is spell's target 32 Caster becomes invisible 33 Color spray from caster 34 Birds appear around the caster 35 Fireball centered on caster. No damage done 36 Gems created on caster 37 Combat music starts 38 Goodberries created on caster 39 Fireball flies toward target 40 Charges drained on area effect around target 41 Random treasure created on caster 42 Caster is combat ready (+2 THAC0 +2 Damage) 43 Teleport Field spell centered on caster 44 Teleport Field spell centered on target 45 Area effect hiccups centered on target 46 All doors in area of effect open. If there are no doors, then roll twice and use both effects 47 Caster polymorphs into wolf 48 Change target randomly 49 Caster recuperates as if he rested 50 Monsters summoned by target 51 Start snowing if outside, otherwise roll twice more 52 Loud noise. Target must save or be stunned 53 Target's hit points doubled 54 Summon demon to attack target 55 Spell fired but with squealing noise 56 Spell goes off but duration is halved 57 Strange visual effect, but the spell fizzles 58 Projectile speed halved 59 All weapons in the area glow 60 No saving throws is allowed against the spell 61 Target is held as per the Hold Person spell 62 Detect Magic spell centered on target 63 Roll 4 times. All effects happen 64 Slow spell centered on target 65 Instead of the chosen spell, a different spell of the same level goes off 66 Lightning Bolt spell cast at target 67 Target strengthened 68 Heal centered on target 69 Entangle target 70 Caster weakened 71 Fireball centered on target 72 Flesh to Stone on target 73 Spell fired. Caster also recuperated as if rested 74 Heal spell centered on caster 75 Target dizzy 76 Sunfire centered on target (caster unaffected) 77 Target held 78 Target blinded 79 Target charmed 80 Gems created on target 81 Target's movement rate reduced 82 Random treasure created on target 83 Target polymorphed into squirrel 84 Silence 15' radius centered on target 85 Target's sex changed 86 Fake explosion (no damage) centered on target 87 Stinking Cloud centered on target 88 Cow falls from sky on target 89 Target dizzy 90 Spell has 60 foot radius at target (change projectile) 91 Target itchy 92 Caster's hit points doubled 93 Target held 94 Target hastened 95 Destroy all gold on target 96 Spell casts at double effectiveness 97 Spell cast, -4 to target's saving throw 98 Target's color changed 99 Spell cast at double level 100 Spell casts normally
@fighter_mage_thief, thanks for trying to provide some objectivity, but your number 1 point is misleading. You made a similar mistake to the one I made that @SandmanCCL corrected me on earlier in the thread.
The Nahal's Reckless Dweomer merely intentionally creates a roll on the wild surge table. Note that you need a 100 to get exactly the spell you are trying to cast. Were you figuring in the bonuses at 96, 97, and 99? That would come to four percent (4 in 100 to cast the spell, and 1 in 3 after success to amplify the spell); however, note that 95 is "destroy all gold", and your level and Chaos Shield will increase your chances of getting that. If it was a friendly spell on yourself, well, ... yikes. Number 98 is a useless misfire. Your chances just got worse, again.
Heh, I can see the potential thrill of playing this class. It is like playing a slot-machine, and I can totally see myself getting hooked on playing the slots in Vegas. In fact, as a child, I had a brief fascination with slot machines, and one of my favorite Christmas presents ever was when my mother got me a toy slot machine that was an exact duplicate of the Vegas ones, only it used hard aluminum slugs to play.
The trouble is, if you get three lemons in a row on this particular slot-machine, the consequence is death. Not only your potential death, but the potential death of many, many other people (you Gate a pit fiend who is now free to go on a rampage across the countryside, killing hundreds or even thousands). Since I like a high level of realism in my gaming, I know that I would never, ever, take a chance like that. Neera and any other wild mage is the very embodiment of everything I deplore and fight against in real life - foolish, reckless people (follow their whims, and laugh at the results), and evil people (actively enjoy dominating and causing pain and suffering, or even death).
EDIT: hmm, well, I looked at the table again after posting this. It looks like there are several lower table numbers where your intended spell goes off, accompanied by some silly animation or sound, like "squealing". The trouble is, these are scattered randomly through the table. Figuring the exact odds of a successful Nahal's Reckless Dweomer would take some parsing of the table, BUT, the random presence of these "successful but different" casts, combined with the equally random presence of useless or devastating effects throughout the table, mean that the two Chaos Shield spells are worthless. If this table is to be left as is, then the wild mage class is always, to its core, totally at the mercy of random chaos in its spellcasting
Yuck. I have a wizard's interest in studying the phenomenon of wild magic, and the wisdom to see that it is bad, bad, bad. I might actually decide to help the Red Wizards capture Neera, if that's the only way to get her to stop risking my and everybody else's on the Sword Coast's lives (ahem, pit fiends?).
The Nahal's Reckless Dweomer merely intentionally creates a roll on the wild surge table. Note that you need a 100 to get exactly the spell you are trying to cast. Were you figuring in the bonuses at 96, 97, and 99? That would come to four percent (4 in 100 to cast the spell, and 1 in 2 after success to amplify the spell); however, note that 95 is "destroy all gold", and your level and Chaos Shield will increase your chances of getting that. If it was a friendly spell on yourself, well, ... yikes.
@belgarathmth Mathematically, that's not true. Chaos Shield and Improved Chaos Shield ONLY increase the chance of getting a cast-as-intended. Everything else remains at 1% chance except for things falling totally under the threshold of your bonus to rolls, which then you can never get. Instead of rolling a 95 to get "destroy all gold," you'd have to roll (95 - [your caster level + shield bonus]). There is still only a single number you can roll, therefore your chances to get it are not altered in any way.
A level 14th level mage under the influence of Improved Chaos Shield (14 being the first time you have access to 7th level spells) would have a 40% chance of getting a 100 and therefore getting a cast-as-intended roll for any Dweomer cast. (NOTE: Subtract 14 if it's just a regular wild surge because then you don't add your caster level into the roll.) It would be impossible to get anything listed 39 or below (caster level 14 + 25 from shield + 1 being the minimum roll = 40 or better). You would have a 1% chance of getting anything between 40 and 99.
The actual percentages of the end effect are still slightly skewed (46, 51 and 63 all make you roll multiple times on the wild surge table, then you have to factor in which ones still let you cast your spell correctly, blah blah. MATH, MAN), but the actual chance of landing a 100 roll is the only one mathematically boosted by Chaos Shields.
@SandmanCCL, I hate to argue with such a forceful person as you, but that's wrong. Read the descriptions of the Chaos Shield spells more carefully:
Chaos Shield:
Chaos Shield increases a wild mage's chance to gain favorable result when a wild surge occurs. Every time a roll is made on the wild surge chart, an extra 15 is added to the dice roll. When Nahal's Reckless Dweomer is cast, the bonus from Chaos Shield stacks with the wild mage's level bonus.
And here's Improved Chaos Shield:
Improved Chaos Shield increases a wild mage's chance to gain a favorable result when a wild surge occurs. Every time a roll is made on the wild surge chart, an extra 25 is added to the dice roll. When Nahal's Reckless Dweomer is cast, the bonus from Chaos Shield stacks with the wild mage's level bonus.
Chaos Shields and your level *raise the number to the dice roll* on the wild surge table. The higher numbers are just as likely to produce an undesired result as the lower ones. Randomness, randomness, randomness. Chaos within chaos within chaos. It boggles my poor, Lawful mind how awful wild magic is. I might just join the Red Wizards myself if they fight this kind of nonsense.
Nahaal's Reckless Dweomer literally only increases your chances of seeing the spell take effect as normal. Because any roll higher than 100 yields a result of 100, the surge table benefits a higher caster level. It means that at level 5, for example, you have a 94% chance of something other than the spell's normal effect taking place, and a 6% chance of the spell taking effect as normal with no amplification or altered effects.
Everything else is a flat 1% chance, regardless of caster level. The Reckless Dweomer spell just eliminates the lower-value effects, yielding a pool of more favorable results.
@Aosaw, good point. I did not think of adjusted rolls higher than 100. I'll have to think about whether that changes my opinion of wild mages as dangerous renegades, though. How many people would they have killed to get that kind of favorable probability, if not themselves? A person would have to be evil or chaotic neutral to be so uncaring in pursuit of potential godlike power.
I kind of get the impression that wild mages are born, not created. Like, someone has an affinity to wild magic, and then they become a mage and it gets unlocked. Which makes them kind of like sorcerers in that regard.
@Aosaw, hmm, yes and no. Sorcerers cast exactly whatever they intend with absolutely no books, no knowledge, and no wands, and thus flabbergast their teachers, though they are rather like savants or "one-trick ponies" level by level, and will never be very flexible in their skills. Personality-wise, they are flashy and charismatic, they don't think things through, and they are impulsive.
Wild mages share many similar characteristics, but instead of flabbergasting their teachers, they horrify their teachers. They also horrify any other sane person in their presence: "Ha, ha, I'm going to cast a spell now, just because I want to!" Everybody else: "Gasp, NO! "
Have you read that little prequel story about Neera in the Candlekeep Library? I am totally that Centaur instructor in the story. Neera is a danger to herself and everyone around her. She must either be "gentled", and cut off from magic, or placed under permanent house arrest, for her own and everyone else's safety. She is a menace to all beings if she is allowed to practice magic!
@SandmanCCL, I hate to argue with such a forceful person as you, but that's wrong. Read the descriptions of the Chaos Shield spells more carefully:
Chaos Shield:
Chaos Shield increases a wild mage's chance to gain favorable result when a wild surge occurs. Every time a roll is made on the wild surge chart, an extra 15 is added to the dice roll. When Nahal's Reckless Dweomer is cast, the bonus from Chaos Shield stacks with the wild mage's level bonus.
And here's Improved Chaos Shield:
Improved Chaos Shield increases a wild mage's chance to gain a favorable result when a wild surge occurs. Every time a roll is made on the wild surge chart, an extra 25 is added to the dice roll. When Nahal's Reckless Dweomer is cast, the bonus from Chaos Shield stacks with the wild mage's level bonus.
Chaos Shields and your level *raise the number to the dice roll* on the wild surge table. The higher numbers are just as likely to produce an undesired result as the lower ones. Randomness, randomness, randomness. Chaos within chaos within chaos. It boggles my poor, Lawful mind how awful wild magic is. I might just join the Red Wizards myself if they fight this kind of nonsense.
I think @Aosaw pointed out what I was trying to say.
Let's take my level 14 example again. 25 (ICS) + 14 (Caster lvl) + Roll. You are still just as likely to roll results 40 to 99 as you were before, but now any unadjusted roll 61 or over = 100 (because you can't get higher than that), therefore = cast as intended.
You still have a 1 in 100 chance of getting an unadjusted roll of 56, which then boosted = destroys your gold. But now you have a 40% chance of rolling unadjusted 61-100, which then means cast as intended.
This just gets BETTER as you level up. A level 24 wild mage has a 50/50 chance of getting a cast-as-intended.
Do you understand what I was trying to say now? Chaos Shield and Improved Chaos Shield ONLY alter your chance of getting a cast-as-intended.
Right, yeah. That's the caveat. This is for when you cast reckless dweomer. A normal wild surge roll still benefits in the same way from chaos shield, but it doesn't also add your caster level to it.
@sandmanCCL, thanks for the clarification. I agree with you now.
However, as a lawful neutral or lawful good roleplayer, my opinion about wild mages being chaotic at best and evil at worst hasn't changed.
A wild mage and I are just never, ever, going to get along. We are polar opposites. I am either going to have to ignore at best, or kill at worst, poor Neera. I will have to see if any of her new content can be played without accepting wild magic, which I never will. I may even have to play a temporary "enemy of my enemy" alliance with Edwin on this matter. I would kill Edwin if he tried to hurt Dynaheir, but help him if he tried to bring an unrepentant Neera under control.
I've never really played the wild mage much because I find it too risky. I like consistency in my games
I was merely pointing to the following results:
55 Spell fired but with squealing noise 56 Spell goes off but duration is halved 60 No saving throw is allowed against the spell 73 Spell fired. Caster also recuperated as if rested 90 Spell has 60 foot radius at target (change projectile) 96 Spell casts at double effectiveness 97 Spell cast, -4 to target's saving throw 99 Spell cast at double level 100 Spell casts normally
24 Roll twice more. Both effects apply (potential for success) 63 Roll 4 times. All effects happen (potential for success)
Basically, there are 9/100 chances for the spell to go off (albeit 8/100 are modified), and 2/100 chances that the spell might go off (the x factor).
My calculations are slightly off of course, but if you think about it, at level 31 with improved chaos shield, a wild surge gets +25 to rolls, and dweomer gets +56 to rolls.
This means that on a random wild surge, a roll of 74 or higher is a success, but also the results of 55, 56, 60, 73, 90, 96, and 97 can also result, meaning there are approx 34/100 possible rolls that will result in a success, and one further roll (63) that will result in four more rolls.
With the dwoemer, a roll of 43 or higher will succeed, and the results of 60, 73, 90, and 97 can also result, meaning there are approx 62/100 chances the roll will result in a success, in addition to one further roll (63) that can result in four more rolls.
But you're absolutely right, it's not simply a matter of rolling 95+ at level 1 and getting the spell off. It's a matter of rolling 55, 56, 60, 73, 90, 96, 97, 99, or 100, but to look at it slightly differently, that's 8/100 chances, with an additional 2/100 chances for potential success (24 and 63), although very likely failure until higher levels. As your level goes up though and if you use a shield, some of these options disappear (24, 55, and 56 to be specific).
I do like the class though, it's an interesting concept. I really like how casting spells alters your caster level usually, anywhere from -5 to +5.
This means you can cast a fireball at level 5 as if you were level 10, or as if you're level 1 (I don't know if it can go lower than level 1).
It can make magic missile really interesting at level 1, considering you could cast it and launch three missiles, and all five by level four.
I definitely haven't tested the class out enough in game though.
I did see the playthrough with Lilly Black btw, it was interesting. For me, I wouldn't want to risk destroying all my gold and stuff like that though. = )
@fighter_mage_thief, you are a man (or woman?) after my own heart, friend, always analyzing, and obsessed with contingencies. Thanks for doing some actuarial parsing of the table for our knowledge and learning.
Do you have an opinion from a roleplaying perspective? What is your apparent favorite self-projection's (of a FMT) into the gameworld going to have to say about wild mages, and would you take Neera into your own party if it were a real life-and-death matter of really being there, with your own life on the line? Remember, you don't meet her at level 8 or even 20, you have to deal with her from level one.
In a real life situation she's a walking time bomb and should for the benifit of all around her be slaughtered. Just imagine she's in the tavern it's a busy night and you've just come back from clearing a mine, your fresh loot needs to be sold and that ring needs identifying, KABOOM. One surge latter and fireball has killed everyone in the tavern.
Luckily this is not real life, it's a game, a game about epic stories and defying the odds. Many of the greatest stories we each have about Baldur's Gate are stories of our own creation. Overcoming impossible odds defeating the dragon with a solo bard. It's in this respect that Neera is great she will add flavour and style. She will create stories by her random nature. 'Oh my goodness I cast strength on Minsc and he became a women' or at level 1 instead of casting a magic missile at the hobgoblin it surged to a fireball killing the whole group. There will be a million stories from moments like these and after all that's what it's about experiencing a story shaping the character and world.
So yeah in a real world situation she's a menace and would have to be killed yet in the game I starting to think she may be the most awesome thing I've seen... And if the tavern does go boom take a screenshot laugh and reload
@fighter_mage_thief, you are a man (or woman?) after my own heart, friend, always analyzing, and obsessed with contingencies. Thanks for doing some actuarial parsing of the table for our knowledge and learning.
Do you have an opinion from a roleplaying perspective? What is your apparent favorite self-projection's (of a FMT) into the gameworld going to have to say about wild mages, and would you take Neera into your own party if it were a real life-and-death matter of really being there, with your own life on the line? Remember, you don't meet her at level 8 or even 20, you have to deal with her from level one.
Thanks for this Belgarathmth.
From a roleplay perspective, two things come to mind.
First, the average hedge wizard can be dangerous enough to be around. Just take a look at poor Melecamp! ^ ^
In the 2nd ed PHB, it states in the mage section, "the reputations of wizards tend to discourage people from flocking to their doors." A fighter can attract 100+ soldiers, elite troops, and a person bodyguard. A cleric can attract up to 200 devout followers. The thief can attract 10+ thieves or scouts. The mage will be lucky to find a few apprentices. Mercenaries, golems and magical servants are pretty much the only other options.
In the ToB manual, it states that "wild magic is characterized by powerful and dangerous surges and unpredictable effects."
Volo's impression: "The Wild Mages I have met exhibit a startling disregard for common sense, and are often meddling with powers far beyond their own control."
Magic is supposed to be unpredicatable to a large degree, and the mage level is supposed to represent, at least as I see it, the degree of mastery over that chaotic power, with the ability to shape cosmic forces into a desired effect. So even a level 30 mage could theoretically try casting a spell that isn't listed in the mage book, and potentially end up exploding, with his bones, guts, and blood flying everywhere.
The apprentices in the planar sphere get themselves killed if they try to create anything that is moderately powerful. They might succeed at creating the item, but also stand a high chance of getting killed in the process.
Now as an elven or half elven fighter/mage/thief, I'm likely to roleplay a character who is a lot like an intelligence officer, who values information above most other things, who travels with scouts and spies mostly, and only dabbles somewhat in magic, knowing enough to perform rudimentary actions without blowing myself up in the process (casting from scrolls, using some low level magics, activating wands, and so on).
As a mage, and likely a fairly old one, if I'm an elf, I will also likely know how dangerous the art of magic is, and safely keep my distance from most wizards, and especially the crazed ones. A lot of aspiring wizards likely end up blowing themselves up before ever gaining some degree of mastery over the art, and wild mages especially are probably the most likely to end up meeting a particularly grim fate.
So the answer for Neera would definitely be no, so long as I'm chaotic good, as opposed to chaotic neutral or just plain insane. That being said, as a FMT, there is a quality that perhaps even borders on what may be perceived as insane by some. It is the thief in me, the one who is always concerning himself with the affairs of others even if it may be dangerous to do so, or stealthily stalking certain targets, tracking people down. Trap disarm, for instance, is a bit on the crazy side. Consider the person whose job it is to disarm bombs. It can save lives, but one of these days, the person might fail, and get him or herself blown up in the process. But these things always involve a calculated risk with the odds in my favour, which is much different when compared to the mindset of a wild mage, who knows the chance is slim that the power they wield can be properly controlled, while constantly pushing the envelope.
At the end of the day, I still come to rely on the edge of my blade, the string of my bow, the tips of my arrows, and the concealment of the terrain and the shadows. I can walk a tightrope, scale the castle walls, sneak into an enemy's chamber under the cover of night, silently strike while he sleeps, and then vanish, as if I had never been there.
If she were in distress, I might help her, but I would insist that she keep out of harm's way, and leave the fighting to the fighters. ; )
lol
p.s. I'm a guy.
Lastly, I will leave you all with some George Carlin
Thing is Edwin is too Evil, Dynaheir is missing two critical schools of magic, Xan can't cast fireball etc and I can't stand the Gnome. Now eventually I'm going to duel Immy and problem solved but till then what do I do.
Is Neera the stop gap answer to my issue or is wild magic just too risky, or is there another option I'm not seeing?
My advice: try Neera out and look at it as a lark. Part of the fun of having a wild mage in a party is the weird and random crap that results. This isn't a paper and pencil game, so save often and laugh maniacally when you do something that kills everybody. This is a video game, don't make the mistake of taking it seriously lol.
@CyricSpawn, I agree completely with the first paragraph of what you said, though not with the rest of it.
@Fighter_Mage_Thief, thank you for the insightful answer, and for the comedy clip.
@NightfallRob, your attitude toward gaming likely matches that of Neera's writers. "Who cares what happens, when you can just reload over and over. It's only a game." I wouldn't believe any of your heroic stories about beating the odds through wild magic, though, not unless you got from Candlekeep to Sarevok with no reloading. I would just smile and peg you as a teller of tall, and completely untrue, tales.
D&D gaming to me, for better or for worse, is a form of artistic self-expression that I will always take *very* seriously, (I even often dream about being there when I'm sound-asleep and in an REM state), and I will never be better than tense acquaintances with my opposite personality types.
Still, "it takes all kinds...", "variety is the spice of life...", "the world would be a boring place if everyone were the same...", etc., etc.
Comments
Also kind of hope we get BG 2 Lvl 1-5 spells, open up a lot of possibilities.
Wild Mages are chaos given form - they can either be super-awesome, completely disastrous, normal, or simply ineffective. If you don't like randomness, don't play a Wild Mage. Meanwhile, I'll go back to my playthrough of six Wild Mages in BG2. I've only had a party-roasting fireball dropped on them once and I'm only halfway through Chapter 2!
while i've had a few annoying effects, I think i only had 2-3 game enders the entire time. and 2 times where it reset my gold to 0. Which was for me a reset as well.
Besides that, it was a rather fun class to play. Later on wild mages are stronger than sorcerers, as their level increases the chances for bad shit is so low, nahlhals reckless dweoemer is instant cast, so you can essentially cast 9 spells in one round. no problem. grant this is higher level but at level 18 ish, you can cast 9 horrid wiltings, 5 of them go off as normal, 2 do something with some added benifit. and 2 don't work/different spell/something bad. That was about my situation.
Lower levels might be a problem though, not having tried a Wild Mage in BG1Tutu. Most of the kits aren't particularly balanced for a BG1 game. Maybe if the level of spell cast affected the possible surge it would better please everyone? I.e. lower level spells are limited from the best and worst of the surges, and with higher spells comes higher risk/reward. At least that way you're protected from the worst until you can get Improved Chaos Shield etc.
Everyone can look at statistics, but statistics are whatever you want them to be. Anyone actually tried playing one before calling it stupid? I found myself reloading a lot more because of traps or enemies than a wild surge. Does that mean traps and bad guys are stupid and should be modded out?
Reckless Dweomer is meant to be used as last resort... so if anyone is looking at the percentage of it, and planning to use it every fight, you're doing it wrong.
I've even finished this game with Charname as a wild mage and can barely remember doing any reloading because of a wild surge. It's probably less than 10 in over 80 hours of gameplay.
In addition, it's not a straight "25%" are game-enders. It's hardly 25% that will make you reload... and whatever the real number is, it becomes even smaller as you level.
You can thank the people at PlanetBaldursGate, the link
http://www.planetbaldursgate.com/bg2/character/classes/tables/wildsurge.shtml
This is also all in the instruction manual.
What this all means is that there is around a 9% chance to succeed at casting the spell you intended with dweomer, +1% per wild mage level, and +15%(L2)/+25%(L7) with a shield on (can only have one shield on). With a random wild surge, you don't add the wild mage's level to the calculation.
Therefore,
(1) A level 1 wild mage will have a 10% chance to succeed at casting what was intended with the dweomer, a 9% chance on a random wild surge.
(2) A level 6 wild mage with chaos shield on will have a 30% chance to successfully cast the intended spell with the dwoemer, but a 24% chance during a random wild surge. The chance will still be 9% if there is no shield during a random surge (the result of the 1d100 is literally what you get).
(3) A level 31 wild mage with improved chaos shield on will have a 65% chance with the dwoemer, but a 34% chance with a random wild surge. The chance will still be 9% if there is no shield during a random surge (the result of the 1d100 is what you will get).
To put it another way.
Random surge (5% chance per cast): effect = 1d100 + shield modifier
Dweomer surge: effect = 1d100 + shield modifier + wild mage level
1 Repulsion field centered on the caster
2 Wild color changes upon the caster
3 Squirrels appear around caster
4 The caster becomes itchy
5 The caster glows
6 A Fireball centers on the caster
7 The caster's sex is changed
8 The caster's color changes
9 Every one in the area changes direction
10 Explosion centered on caster
11 Entangle spell centered on caster
12 Slow spell centered on target
13 Target polymorphed into a wolf
14 Caster held
15 Caster hasted
16 Caster changed into a squirrel
17 Gold on the caster is destroyed
18 Target weakened
19 Sunfire spell centered on caster
20 Movement rate lowered on target
21 Fireball centered on caster
22 Caster held as per spell Hold Person
23 Fear spell centered on target
24 Roll twice more. Both effects apply
25 Entire area explored
26 Globe of Invulnerability centered on target
27 Silence 15' radius centered on caster
28 Caster dizzy
29 Target invisible
30 Pretty sparkles! No other effect
31 Caster is spell's target
32 Caster becomes invisible
33 Color spray from caster
34 Birds appear around the caster
35 Fireball centered on caster. No damage done
36 Gems created on caster
37 Combat music starts
38 Goodberries created on caster
39 Fireball flies toward target
40 Charges drained on area effect around target
41 Random treasure created on caster
42 Caster is combat ready (+2 THAC0 +2 Damage)
43 Teleport Field spell centered on caster
44 Teleport Field spell centered on target
45 Area effect hiccups centered on target
46 All doors in area of effect open. If there are no doors, then roll twice and use both effects
47 Caster polymorphs into wolf
48 Change target randomly
49 Caster recuperates as if he rested
50 Monsters summoned by target
51 Start snowing if outside, otherwise roll twice more
52 Loud noise. Target must save or be stunned
53 Target's hit points doubled
54 Summon demon to attack target
55 Spell fired but with squealing noise
56 Spell goes off but duration is halved
57 Strange visual effect, but the spell fizzles
58 Projectile speed halved
59 All weapons in the area glow
60 No saving throws is allowed against the spell
61 Target is held as per the Hold Person spell
62 Detect Magic spell centered on target
63 Roll 4 times. All effects happen
64 Slow spell centered on target
65 Instead of the chosen spell, a different spell of the same level goes off
66 Lightning Bolt spell cast at target
67 Target strengthened
68 Heal centered on target
69 Entangle target
70 Caster weakened
71 Fireball centered on target
72 Flesh to Stone on target
73 Spell fired. Caster also recuperated as if rested
74 Heal spell centered on caster
75 Target dizzy
76 Sunfire centered on target (caster unaffected)
77 Target held
78 Target blinded
79 Target charmed
80 Gems created on target
81 Target's movement rate reduced
82 Random treasure created on target
83 Target polymorphed into squirrel
84 Silence 15' radius centered on target
85 Target's sex changed
86 Fake explosion (no damage) centered on target
87 Stinking Cloud centered on target
88 Cow falls from sky on target
89 Target dizzy
90 Spell has 60 foot radius at target (change projectile)
91 Target itchy
92 Caster's hit points doubled
93 Target held
94 Target hastened
95 Destroy all gold on target
96 Spell casts at double effectiveness
97 Spell cast, -4 to target's saving throw
98 Target's color changed
99 Spell cast at double level
100 Spell casts normally
The Nahal's Reckless Dweomer merely intentionally creates a roll on the wild surge table. Note that you need a 100 to get exactly the spell you are trying to cast. Were you figuring in the bonuses at 96, 97, and 99? That would come to four percent (4 in 100 to cast the spell, and 1 in 3 after success to amplify the spell); however, note that 95 is "destroy all gold", and your level and Chaos Shield will increase your chances of getting that. If it was a friendly spell on yourself, well, ... yikes. Number 98 is a useless misfire. Your chances just got worse, again.
Heh, I can see the potential thrill of playing this class. It is like playing a slot-machine, and I can totally see myself getting hooked on playing the slots in Vegas. In fact, as a child, I had a brief fascination with slot machines, and one of my favorite Christmas presents ever was when my mother got me a toy slot machine that was an exact duplicate of the Vegas ones, only it used hard aluminum slugs to play.
The trouble is, if you get three lemons in a row on this particular slot-machine, the consequence is death. Not only your potential death, but the potential death of many, many other people (you Gate a pit fiend who is now free to go on a rampage across the countryside, killing hundreds or even thousands). Since I like a high level of realism in my gaming, I know that I would never, ever, take a chance like that. Neera and any other wild mage is the very embodiment of everything I deplore and fight against in real life - foolish, reckless people (follow their whims, and laugh at the results), and evil people (actively enjoy dominating and causing pain and suffering, or even death).
EDIT: hmm, well, I looked at the table again after posting this. It looks like there are several lower table numbers where your intended spell goes off, accompanied by some silly animation or sound, like "squealing". The trouble is, these are scattered randomly through the table. Figuring the exact odds of a successful Nahal's Reckless Dweomer would take some parsing of the table, BUT, the random presence of these "successful but different" casts, combined with the equally random presence of useless or devastating effects throughout the table, mean that the two Chaos Shield spells are worthless. If this table is to be left as is, then the wild mage class is always, to its core, totally at the mercy of random chaos in its spellcasting
Yuck. I have a wizard's interest in studying the phenomenon of wild magic, and the wisdom to see that it is bad, bad, bad. I might actually decide to help the Red Wizards capture Neera, if that's the only way to get her to stop risking my and everybody else's on the Sword Coast's lives (ahem, pit fiends?).
Mathematically, that's not true. Chaos Shield and Improved Chaos Shield ONLY increase the chance of getting a cast-as-intended. Everything else remains at 1% chance except for things falling totally under the threshold of your bonus to rolls, which then you can never get. Instead of rolling a 95 to get "destroy all gold," you'd have to roll (95 - [your caster level + shield bonus]). There is still only a single number you can roll, therefore your chances to get it are not altered in any way.
A level 14th level mage under the influence of Improved Chaos Shield (14 being the first time you have access to 7th level spells) would have a 40% chance of getting a 100 and therefore getting a cast-as-intended roll for any Dweomer cast. (NOTE: Subtract 14 if it's just a regular wild surge because then you don't add your caster level into the roll.) It would be impossible to get anything listed 39 or below (caster level 14 + 25 from shield + 1 being the minimum roll = 40 or better). You would have a 1% chance of getting anything between 40 and 99.
The actual percentages of the end effect are still slightly skewed (46, 51 and 63 all make you roll multiple times on the wild surge table, then you have to factor in which ones still let you cast your spell correctly, blah blah. MATH, MAN), but the actual chance of landing a 100 roll is the only one mathematically boosted by Chaos Shields.
Chaos Shield:
Chaos Shield increases a wild mage's chance to gain favorable result when a wild surge occurs. Every time a roll is made on the wild surge chart, an extra 15 is added to the dice roll. When Nahal's Reckless Dweomer is cast, the bonus from Chaos Shield stacks with the wild mage's level bonus.
And here's Improved Chaos Shield:
Improved Chaos Shield increases a wild mage's chance to gain a favorable result when a wild surge occurs. Every time a roll is made on the wild surge chart, an extra 25 is added to the dice roll. When Nahal's Reckless Dweomer is cast, the bonus from Chaos Shield stacks with the wild mage's level bonus.
Chaos Shields and your level *raise the number to the dice roll* on the wild surge table. The higher numbers are just as likely to produce an undesired result as the lower ones. Randomness, randomness, randomness. Chaos within chaos within chaos. It boggles my poor, Lawful mind how awful wild magic is. I might just join the Red Wizards myself if they fight this kind of nonsense.
Actually...
Nahaal's Reckless Dweomer literally only increases your chances of seeing the spell take effect as normal. Because any roll higher than 100 yields a result of 100, the surge table benefits a higher caster level. It means that at level 5, for example, you have a 94% chance of something other than the spell's normal effect taking place, and a 6% chance of the spell taking effect as normal with no amplification or altered effects.
Everything else is a flat 1% chance, regardless of caster level. The Reckless Dweomer spell just eliminates the lower-value effects, yielding a pool of more favorable results.
Wild mages share many similar characteristics, but instead of flabbergasting their teachers, they horrify their teachers. They also horrify any other sane person in their presence: "Ha, ha, I'm going to cast a spell now, just because I want to!" Everybody else: "Gasp, NO! "
Have you read that little prequel story about Neera in the Candlekeep Library? I am totally that Centaur instructor in the story. Neera is a danger to herself and everyone around her. She must either be "gentled", and cut off from magic, or placed under permanent house arrest, for her own and everyone else's safety. She is a menace to all beings if she is allowed to practice magic!
Let's take my level 14 example again. 25 (ICS) + 14 (Caster lvl) + Roll. You are still just as likely to roll results 40 to 99 as you were before, but now any unadjusted roll 61 or over = 100 (because you can't get higher than that), therefore = cast as intended.
You still have a 1 in 100 chance of getting an unadjusted roll of 56, which then boosted = destroys your gold. But now you have a 40% chance of rolling unadjusted 61-100, which then means cast as intended.
This just gets BETTER as you level up. A level 24 wild mage has a 50/50 chance of getting a cast-as-intended.
Do you understand what I was trying to say now? Chaos Shield and Improved Chaos Shield ONLY alter your chance of getting a cast-as-intended.
However, as a lawful neutral or lawful good roleplayer, my opinion about wild mages being chaotic at best and evil at worst hasn't changed.
A wild mage and I are just never, ever, going to get along. We are polar opposites. I am either going to have to ignore at best, or kill at worst, poor Neera. I will have to see if any of her new content can be played without accepting wild magic, which I never will. I may even have to play a temporary "enemy of my enemy" alliance with Edwin on this matter. I would kill Edwin if he tried to hurt Dynaheir, but help him if he tried to bring an unrepentant Neera under control.
Pitty cause Wild Mages get SOOO good in BG 2, in a broken, this game is a cake walk way but still...lol
LOL - please take that little jibe in the spirit of friendly banter in which it was intended. I am roleplaying, a bit.
I've never really played the wild mage much because I find it too risky. I like consistency in my games
I was merely pointing to the following results:
55 Spell fired but with squealing noise
56 Spell goes off but duration is halved
60 No saving throw is allowed against the spell
73 Spell fired. Caster also recuperated as if rested
90 Spell has 60 foot radius at target (change projectile)
96 Spell casts at double effectiveness
97 Spell cast, -4 to target's saving throw
99 Spell cast at double level
100 Spell casts normally
24 Roll twice more. Both effects apply (potential for success)
63 Roll 4 times. All effects happen (potential for success)
Basically, there are 9/100 chances for the spell to go off (albeit 8/100 are modified), and 2/100 chances that the spell might go off (the x factor).
My calculations are slightly off of course, but if you think about it, at level 31 with improved chaos shield, a wild surge gets +25 to rolls, and dweomer gets +56 to rolls.
This means that on a random wild surge, a roll of 74 or higher is a success, but also the results of 55, 56, 60, 73, 90, 96, and 97 can also result, meaning there are approx 34/100 possible rolls that will result in a success, and one further roll (63) that will result in four more rolls.
With the dwoemer, a roll of 43 or higher will succeed, and the results of 60, 73, 90, and 97 can also result, meaning there are approx 62/100 chances the roll will result in a success, in addition to one further roll (63) that can result in four more rolls.
But you're absolutely right, it's not simply a matter of rolling 95+ at level 1 and getting the spell off. It's a matter of rolling 55, 56, 60, 73, 90, 96, 97, 99, or 100, but to look at it slightly differently, that's 8/100 chances, with an additional 2/100 chances for potential success (24 and 63), although very likely failure until higher levels. As your level goes up though and if you use a shield, some of these options disappear (24, 55, and 56 to be specific).
I do like the class though, it's an interesting concept. I really like how casting spells alters your caster level usually, anywhere from -5 to +5.
This means you can cast a fireball at level 5 as if you were level 10, or as if you're level 1 (I don't know if it can go lower than level 1).
It can make magic missile really interesting at level 1, considering you could cast it and launch three missiles, and all five by level four.
I definitely haven't tested the class out enough in game though.
I did see the playthrough with Lilly Black btw, it was interesting. For me, I wouldn't want to risk destroying all my gold and stuff like that though. = )
Do you have an opinion from a roleplaying perspective? What is your apparent favorite self-projection's (of a FMT) into the gameworld going to have to say about wild mages, and would you take Neera into your own party if it were a real life-and-death matter of really being there, with your own life on the line? Remember, you don't meet her at level 8 or even 20, you have to deal with her from level one.
Probably, and I do tend towards chaotic myself so...suppose it fits.
Luckily this is not real life, it's a game, a game about epic stories and defying the odds. Many of the greatest stories we each have about Baldur's Gate are stories of our own creation. Overcoming impossible odds defeating the dragon with a solo bard. It's in this respect that Neera is great she will add flavour and style. She will create stories by her random nature. 'Oh my goodness I cast strength on Minsc and he became a women' or at level 1 instead of casting a magic missile at the hobgoblin it surged to a fireball killing the whole group. There will be a million stories from moments like these and after all that's what it's about experiencing a story shaping the character and world.
So yeah in a real world situation she's a menace and would have to be killed yet in the game I starting to think she may be the most awesome thing I've seen... And if the tavern does go boom take a screenshot laugh and reload
From a roleplay perspective, two things come to mind.
First, the average hedge wizard can be dangerous enough to be around. Just take a look at poor Melecamp! ^ ^
In the 2nd ed PHB, it states in the mage section, "the reputations of wizards tend to discourage people from flocking to their doors." A fighter can attract 100+ soldiers, elite troops, and a person bodyguard. A cleric can attract up to 200 devout followers. The thief can attract 10+ thieves or scouts. The mage will be lucky to find a few apprentices. Mercenaries, golems and magical servants are pretty much the only other options.
In the ToB manual, it states that "wild magic is characterized by powerful and dangerous surges and unpredictable effects."
Volo's impression: "The Wild Mages I have met exhibit a startling disregard for common sense, and are often meddling with powers far beyond their own control."
Magic is supposed to be unpredicatable to a large degree, and the mage level is supposed to represent, at least as I see it, the degree of mastery over that chaotic power, with the ability to shape cosmic forces into a desired effect. So even a level 30 mage could theoretically try casting a spell that isn't listed in the mage book, and potentially end up exploding, with his bones, guts, and blood flying everywhere.
The apprentices in the planar sphere get themselves killed if they try to create anything that is moderately powerful. They might succeed at creating the item, but also stand a high chance of getting killed in the process.
Now as an elven or half elven fighter/mage/thief, I'm likely to roleplay a character who is a lot like an intelligence officer, who values information above most other things, who travels with scouts and spies mostly, and only dabbles somewhat in magic, knowing enough to perform rudimentary actions without blowing myself up in the process (casting from scrolls, using some low level magics, activating wands, and so on).
As a mage, and likely a fairly old one, if I'm an elf, I will also likely know how dangerous the art of magic is, and safely keep my distance from most wizards, and especially the crazed ones. A lot of aspiring wizards likely end up blowing themselves up before ever gaining some degree of mastery over the art, and wild mages especially are probably the most likely to end up meeting a particularly grim fate.
So the answer for Neera would definitely be no, so long as I'm chaotic good, as opposed to chaotic neutral or just plain insane. That being said, as a FMT, there is a quality that perhaps even borders on what may be perceived as insane by some. It is the thief in me, the one who is always concerning himself with the affairs of others even if it may be dangerous to do so, or stealthily stalking certain targets, tracking people down. Trap disarm, for instance, is a bit on the crazy side. Consider the person whose job it is to disarm bombs. It can save lives, but one of these days, the person might fail, and get him or herself blown up in the process. But these things always involve a calculated risk with the odds in my favour, which is much different when compared to the mindset of a wild mage, who knows the chance is slim that the power they wield can be properly controlled, while constantly pushing the envelope.
At the end of the day, I still come to rely on the edge of my blade, the string of my bow, the tips of my arrows, and the concealment of the terrain and the shadows. I can walk a tightrope, scale the castle walls, sneak into an enemy's chamber under the cover of night, silently strike while he sleeps, and then vanish, as if I had never been there.
If she were in distress, I might help her, but I would insist that she keep out of harm's way, and leave the fighting to the fighters. ; )
lol
p.s. I'm a guy.
Lastly, I will leave you all with some George Carlin
@Fighter_Mage_Thief, thank you for the insightful answer, and for the comedy clip.
@NightfallRob, your attitude toward gaming likely matches that of Neera's writers. "Who cares what happens, when you can just reload over and over. It's only a game." I wouldn't believe any of your heroic stories about beating the odds through wild magic, though, not unless you got from Candlekeep to Sarevok with no reloading. I would just smile and peg you as a teller of tall, and completely untrue, tales.
D&D gaming to me, for better or for worse, is a form of artistic self-expression that I will always take *very* seriously, (I even often dream about being there when I'm sound-asleep and in an REM state), and I will never be better than tense acquaintances with my opposite personality types.
Still, "it takes all kinds...", "variety is the spice of life...", "the world would be a boring place if everyone were the same...", etc., etc.