Strictly Role-Played Cavalier Run
BelgarathMTH
Member Posts: 5,653
Hello, inspired by this new (to me) discovery, I have decided to start a new minimal reload paladin run, based on most of the ideas in this video series:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9XGsBuyfDkA
Since this is a special self-imposed restrictions role-played run, I decided to post about it in its own thread rather than in the general no-reload or minimal reload threads.
Here is my Cavalier. I've imagined him as a paladin of Aster, worshiping Lathander. This will give him excruciating decisions to make in SoD, since his loyalty to Lathander and the Order of Aster will put his loyalties to both that Order and to the government of Baldur's Gate into direct conflict with each other, as (SoD spoiler)
He will quite obviously be seeking to resist and destroy all Bhaalspawn, and the taint within him, and we will assume that Gorion has noticed his aptitude and extreme lawful good nature, and has found and provided a Paladin of Aster as a mentor to him during his upbringing in Candlekeep, hoping that his attraction and then devotion to Lathander will be his redemption from his evil taint, and even will lead to the failure of Bhaal's master plan.
Here is the character. Todarius is a paladin I played in WoW up to about level 70. I imagined him as "General Todarius". He's obviously not that as a first level BG Cavalier, but he will be some day. He has an aptitude for "chess", combat tactics, and war strategy. He is a natural born leader, and somewhat of a military genius, understanding the roles of all types of talents in a military conflict.
I will be trying to keep screen shots to a minimum in this thread, mostly just summarizing my progress into the trilogy, with a particular emphasis on my role-playing decisions.
So, in my first session with this character:
-I didn't need to face Carbos or Shank, since I had no invitation to go into the privately owned buildings where they were waiting.
-Stressed by the urgency of leaving Candlekeep communicated by Gorion, I completely forgot to run up to the North Wall and cure Nessa the Cow. I decided to sell the antidote and the gem in atonement, and to give the proceeds to Gellana's gnome church at the FAI.
-We found a ring on some hobgoblin raiders in the immediate area that had a woman's name engraved on it. "Joia". Inquiring around the FAI, we were directed to her house, so we could return the ring.
-A dwarf lady named Unshey wanted us to recover her Girdle of Piercing from an ogre she encountered to the south. We went and killed the ogre, then promptly delivered her girdle back to her.
-A noble on the top floor of the FAI mistook me for inn staff and asked me to press his golden pantaloons. I politely corrected him about his mistake.
-I will tithe 10 percent of whatever gold I have on any multiple of Day 7. I am not allowed to squander money unnecessarily on Day 6 of any week trying to avoid my tithes.
-A gnome lady in the FAI wanted us to clear her house of spiders in Beregost. I proceeded there immediately after killing the ogre and returning Unshey's belt, to save her home for her. Lathander protects me from spider poison. I drank an oil of speed, and tried to kill them all myself, without endangering my companions, Imoen, Jaheira, and Khalid. Shamefully, I could not do it alone. I ran outside to yell for help from the others. Together, we prevailed, after I drank two potions of healing along the way, and also took a Cure Light Wounds spell or two from Jaheira. We returned to the FAI, even though the march took a day, and returned both the news of her home and her belongings to Landrin.
(I will use consumable items as soon as I need them, as gifts from Lathander. I am not allowed to hoard magic items and potions. If I don't need them within a tenday, I must sell them and donate the funds to the church.)
-In Beregost, we were warned by a friendly townsperson to stay away from the east side of town, as it is apparently populated by "rough" types. I shall heed his advice.
-In Feldpost's Inn, we were accosted by a drunk man as soon as we entered, and he told us to leave as we were not welcome. I gave him a polite response that I wanted no trouble, and we left, but not before buying a book that our old friend and mentor Firebead across the street wanted. Apparently, he left Candlekeep for his home in Beregost almost as soon as we had left.
-We met a fellow paladin named Bjornin who wants us to avenge him and restore his honor against half-ogres to the southwest who forced him to flee combat and lose his honor, almost killing him, in more ways than one. I want to hunt them immediately, but Jaheira says we should go to Nashkel to find information about the "bigger picture" of what is going on in the region, and also reminds me that we are not so powerful or well-equipped yet as to go out into the wilderness hunting half-ogres that could be almost anywhere in the southwest by now. Out of respect and familial loyalty to my foster father Gorion, I agree to follow Jaheira's lead for the time being.
Reloads:0
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9XGsBuyfDkASince this is a special self-imposed restrictions role-played run, I decided to post about it in its own thread rather than in the general no-reload or minimal reload threads.
Here is my Cavalier. I've imagined him as a paladin of Aster, worshiping Lathander. This will give him excruciating decisions to make in SoD, since his loyalty to Lathander and the Order of Aster will put his loyalties to both that Order and to the government of Baldur's Gate into direct conflict with each other, as (SoD spoiler)
Caelar shares almost the same background, including the influence of divine blood.
He will quite obviously be seeking to resist and destroy all Bhaalspawn, and the taint within him, and we will assume that Gorion has noticed his aptitude and extreme lawful good nature, and has found and provided a Paladin of Aster as a mentor to him during his upbringing in Candlekeep, hoping that his attraction and then devotion to Lathander will be his redemption from his evil taint, and even will lead to the failure of Bhaal's master plan.
Here is the character. Todarius is a paladin I played in WoW up to about level 70. I imagined him as "General Todarius". He's obviously not that as a first level BG Cavalier, but he will be some day. He has an aptitude for "chess", combat tactics, and war strategy. He is a natural born leader, and somewhat of a military genius, understanding the roles of all types of talents in a military conflict.
I will be trying to keep screen shots to a minimum in this thread, mostly just summarizing my progress into the trilogy, with a particular emphasis on my role-playing decisions.
So, in my first session with this character:
-I didn't need to face Carbos or Shank, since I had no invitation to go into the privately owned buildings where they were waiting.
-Stressed by the urgency of leaving Candlekeep communicated by Gorion, I completely forgot to run up to the North Wall and cure Nessa the Cow. I decided to sell the antidote and the gem in atonement, and to give the proceeds to Gellana's gnome church at the FAI.
-We found a ring on some hobgoblin raiders in the immediate area that had a woman's name engraved on it. "Joia". Inquiring around the FAI, we were directed to her house, so we could return the ring.
-A dwarf lady named Unshey wanted us to recover her Girdle of Piercing from an ogre she encountered to the south. We went and killed the ogre, then promptly delivered her girdle back to her.
-A noble on the top floor of the FAI mistook me for inn staff and asked me to press his golden pantaloons. I politely corrected him about his mistake.
-I will tithe 10 percent of whatever gold I have on any multiple of Day 7. I am not allowed to squander money unnecessarily on Day 6 of any week trying to avoid my tithes.
-A gnome lady in the FAI wanted us to clear her house of spiders in Beregost. I proceeded there immediately after killing the ogre and returning Unshey's belt, to save her home for her. Lathander protects me from spider poison. I drank an oil of speed, and tried to kill them all myself, without endangering my companions, Imoen, Jaheira, and Khalid. Shamefully, I could not do it alone. I ran outside to yell for help from the others. Together, we prevailed, after I drank two potions of healing along the way, and also took a Cure Light Wounds spell or two from Jaheira. We returned to the FAI, even though the march took a day, and returned both the news of her home and her belongings to Landrin.
(I will use consumable items as soon as I need them, as gifts from Lathander. I am not allowed to hoard magic items and potions. If I don't need them within a tenday, I must sell them and donate the funds to the church.)
-In Beregost, we were warned by a friendly townsperson to stay away from the east side of town, as it is apparently populated by "rough" types. I shall heed his advice.
-In Feldpost's Inn, we were accosted by a drunk man as soon as we entered, and he told us to leave as we were not welcome. I gave him a polite response that I wanted no trouble, and we left, but not before buying a book that our old friend and mentor Firebead across the street wanted. Apparently, he left Candlekeep for his home in Beregost almost as soon as we had left.
-We met a fellow paladin named Bjornin who wants us to avenge him and restore his honor against half-ogres to the southwest who forced him to flee combat and lose his honor, almost killing him, in more ways than one. I want to hunt them immediately, but Jaheira says we should go to Nashkel to find information about the "bigger picture" of what is going on in the region, and also reminds me that we are not so powerful or well-equipped yet as to go out into the wilderness hunting half-ogres that could be almost anywhere in the southwest by now. Out of respect and familial loyalty to my foster father Gorion, I agree to follow Jaheira's lead for the time being.
Reloads:0
11
Comments
That brings to mind another thought on a constrained playthrough. While playing, keep track of who owns what. Fighters have to buy their armor and weapons from their share, mages buy their scrolls from theirs. Some things like a bag of holding or a supply of healing potions could be bought collectively. If you kick someone out of the party, they keep all their equipment and you console out their share of the cash.
I think I might try a future run like that, if I can keep track of everything without too much tedium.
I'm getting worried already about Sarevok. If I stick to my no hoarding potions rule, I'm likely to get there without the resources to win. I guess I'll need to try to go easy on myself as far as needing extra reloads to keep going and having fun. I may need to reload several times during the Sarevok encounter, and try different things and wait for some luck with the dice. I normally hate playing that way, but this run is different. Part of the fun for me is going to be avoiding metagaming as much as possible, and really thinking about my decisions as a paladin.
I'm planning to use the canon party, for alignment reasons. Todarius will be okay with alignments one tick away from his own, so neutral good and lawful neutral are fine. He's uncomfortable with true neutral, and he won't have anything to do with chaotic people (including chaotic good), or evil people. That restricts my party choices quite a bit.
Ajantis would be an obvious choice, but Branwen serves Tempus, which makes her a no-go for Todarius. Also, I have to worry about not messing up Jaheira, Khalid, Minsc, and Dynaheir for SoD. I've already got Jaheira and Khalid in my party, plus, my paladin ethos says I have to be loyal to family, and Gorion's last words to Todarius clearly passed his familial authority to them.
Dynaheir is a lawful good mage, making her more compatible with Todarius than Xan, and there's no way Todarius would refuse to help Minsc rescue her, so those two are in just because he's going to run into Minsc while obeying Jaheira. So, by the time he runs into Ajantis, the party will be full. I could make up a reason to part with J&K in favor of Ajantis, but then J&K would be ruined for SoD. I'd love to take in Yeslick when I find him, as he's the perfect cleric for a paladin, but again, full party, can't mess up SoD characters. So yeah, canon party it is. Chalk it up to keeping loyalty to family and duty to friends. A paladin doesn't abandon old friends in favor of new ones.
I've been planning a paladin run ever since I got this spiffy new portrait. I'm going to take all the lawful good characters (plus Imoen). Oddly enough, there are 4 LG's in each of the games.
BG: Ajantis, Dynaheir, Rasaad, Yeslick
BG2: Keldorn, Aerie, Rasaad, Mazzy
Minsc will be left at a temple "to recover from his injuries". I've never taken Rasaad, Yeslick or Mazzy, so that will be new.
I haven't reached SoD in my present run yet, so I'm not sure who I'll take there. It looks like there's only three LG's, Corwin, Rasaad and Dynaheir, so I'll probably round it out with Minsc and Glint.
I won't be playing as strict as your run, but it will be a fully lawful good run with no entering houses uninvited, no lying except legitimate ruses of war and no shady quests.
You should be careful about your plans for characters in SoD. If you take any of Jaheira, Khalid, Minsc, Dynaheir, or Safana into your party at any time, and then dismiss them, they will instance into SoD at the level and with the equipment you left them with in BG1. That could mean something like Jaheira coming up in her SoD instance at level 2/2 and buck naked in a level 8-10 game, which happened to me in my skald run. The only way I know to avoid this problem is to NOT use a direct transition from the battle with Sarevok into SoD. Instead, export/import your character only, and start all over in SoD. However, that will cost you all your bags of holding and equipment from BG1, including stuff like Ashideena and Spider's Bane.
-Something awful happened tonight. We arrived in Nashkel late at night, and went to stay at the inn. We got attacked by an evil cleric. I knew she could have had Holds and mind-affecting spells against which we were defenseless, and innocents were everywhere, so I tried to draw her outside to see if the nice monk we had met out there might help us, and also to get us away from all the innocents in what was obviously going to be a dangerous combat.
No good. She refused to come outside to fight us, essentially creating a hostage situation inside the inn. We had no choice but to go back in and face her on her own terms.
She made a concentration check against Imoen's Wand of Magic Missiles, and landed a Rigid Thinking on me. I still attacked her for a time, and Imoen kept unloading half the wand's charges on her. J&K peppered her with stones and arrows, and she went down before she could land any Holds. But, I was still under her evil spell, and I was a danger to every innocent in the inn. Jaheira and Khalid bravely cut me off from all the innocents. I mortally wounded ("killed") both of them! And then I marched right up to a man on a barstool and meant to swing my greatsword at him, when the spell wore off at that very second, allowing me to come to my senses in the nick of time.
This is horrible. The videos say that paladins do not fall to evil actions committed under magical influence, but I still must make restitution. The first part of that was to have J&K raised, costing us all but our last 2 gold pieces. Then, at the tenday, I doubled my tithe to the Temple of Lathander in Beregost. I still do not feel redeemed. I'm open to suggestions for how to atone for this.
I thought maybe saving three lives for the three lives I almost took would do it. We took in Minsc and rescued Dynaheir, so that's one.
I am looking for any quest information about two more lives I can save.
We have urgent quests to stop a madman named Bassilus, try to redeem a Captain Brage (could he be one of my saved lives?), and to restore Bjornin's honor against the half-ogres wandering the southwest. I am going to prioritize all three of these things before the mines. The Iron Crisis has been going on for a long time, and will likely continue for a long time no matter what we do. I judge the other quests to be much more urgent, since lives are immediately at stake.
Our quest log:
reloads:0
Lathander is the god of new beginnings, so I really don't think he'd punish a pally who got controlled by a spell. If one is not acting under one's own agency, I think that is a pretty important consideration.
As for Minsc in my future run, I've never had any qualms about adding xp to a companion to bring them up to speed. And these games are a bit of a monty haul, so equipment shouldn't be a problem for too long.
Other than the two you mention, you could save Prim from the bounty hunter or that guy in the same map, chased by kobolds. Near the gnoll fortress, there is a guy chased by a bear you can also save. In the second level of the mines a miner comes and asks for help but it is difficult to save him. The dryad could also be considered someone you save, I guess. If you want to be a fallen paladin until chapter 5, there is that kid killed at the Umberlee temple.
I hoard stuff enemies leave and sell the lot so I can donate even more.
Also talk to all beggars and give them gold.
I think the most important thing about atonement is that it shouldn't be worth it. Because even with the best intentions if you think that violating your code is for the greater good, you might start to weigh options in your head. And it shouldn't be something you would do without it.
@BillyYank Paperwork is the worst.
I don't think I'll count Noober, although I did listen to him patiently.
I also saved the nymph, or more specifically, her tree. Jaheira is teaching me to respect nature, and I know that Lathander is allied to Chauntea in a romantic relationship. Would the nymph have died if Caldo and Krum had cut down her tree? If so, I can probably count her as the third life saved.
Also, I need to clarify something about the definition of "death" and "murder". I do not count a black and white party member as a "death", but rather as a mortal wounding, requiring an immediate priority quest to a temple. Thus, by my house rules, I did not "kill" Jaheira or Khalid. But I did hurt them, thus requiring penance and atonement.
The spell wore off before I hurt the man in the bar. Thus, no one was killed during the spell-induced madness.
Now, there's no way I know of to raise a commoner, and a commoner is very likely to be chunked any way if they take a hit from my greatsword with my 18/59 strength behind it. So, if I ever kill a commoner while under a spell, I have a much more serious problem.
I've always disagreed with giving Neira a Rigid Thinking spell in that encounter, because it can make any party member go on a rampage killing every one in that bar, and then the entire party will break up due to despised reputation. It basically forces a reload if it happens. I was able to avoid one this time by having J&K body block me and take the hits.
He doesn't attack at first, and it becomes immediately clear that he is mad. Paladins want to save lives whenever they can. My question is, does "humoring" a dangerous crazy person count as "lying"?
I'm inclined to think that it doesn't. I know that many paladins would give him the "Die, you evil scumbag!" response and aggro the skeletons, without hesitation. But, I think those paladins may be of the "lawful stupid" alignment. Not all paladins have to be that dumb.
Todarius is supposed to be a smart and wise military leader, one who would not throw away the lives of those under his charge.
What do y'all think? And, thank you to everyone for all the feedback and ideas.
First, I object that palidins must always tell the truth. Its hard to say what some idealistic order of people who always tell the truth would even be like, or how they could even exist in any well fleshed out universe. Sometimes there is just no unequivocal right answer to a situation.
You attack the problem from a different course, though. Is humoring him lying? I think you could argue that Basillus was mad, and that the very premise of the conversation was a fallacy. And since anything can follow from fallacy then anything Todarius could say is valid, i.e. truthful.
I do think there's room for both lawful stupid and lawful savy in the orders of Paladins, so I think you could justify both choices in the Basillus dialogue. I'm documenting a Cavalier run in the challenges and playthroughs subsection, and Churchill is very "lawful stupid". He didn't hesitate to "Die, you evil scumbag!" Well, its black and white for him but he is 20 and the black and white world view does comfort a type.
You've made a well fleshed out character in Todarius, and from what i've seen i do expect him to play along. Ultimately, the best guide is probably honor. Is a choice honorable comes before is a choice truthful.
Caveat Emptor--I know next to nothing about FR lore.
Like @algi said, I'd send Imoen. Maybe RP it it as Jaheira's suggestion, given that she's much more experienced at adventuring.
Prism has gone mad in my opinion though, and may not be truly responsible for his actions, just as Brage is not. A wise paladin tempers justice with mercy. I wouldn't want to kill him. All I have to do is hesitate and tell him I'll stand watch for a bit, and then Graywolf will interrupt and make my choices a lot more clear. Of course, my character doesn't know that, just as he doesn't know that the crossbow skeleton army will stand down if he humors Bassilus. He also doesn't know that Bassilus will attack alone once he gets distracted from controlling his skeletons and will have to be killed anyway.
There are dozens of situations in the game where there is no clear right choice. A course of action that doesn't violate paladin edict number one violates paladin edict number two. I am going to have to follow Montaron's advice, of all people, and "let my conscience be my guide."
As for all the "Yes, I'll follow your main storyline quest because I'm greedy and love money" dialogue options that are needed to complete the game, I'm just going to head canon a simple polite, "Yes, sir, I will help you" answer, and chalk the answer I actually have to give in the game up to bad writing. Remember, in a P&P game, you can say anything you want. You don't have to pick options 1, 2, or 3.
What is a paladin supposed to do in BG2? Obviously he's not going to side with the vampires. He'll have to choose the thieves as a compromise and the lesser of two evils. I can't remember if "sealing the deal" to get to Brynnlaw requires committing crimes. If it does, there's no way for a paladin to finish BG2 legitimately.
There's a mod that provides a third option with the Order of Aster for paladins. I don't know if it's compatible with EE, and I've gotten to where I don't want to use mods anymore. I think they're too much trouble, and they cause endless compatibility problems with game updates.
I may just have to obtain the thieves' help the best way I can and then head canon in the Order of Aster scenario from the mod. I might consider destroying the thieves' guild after I have Imoen to be a possible retribution and penance for anything I did wrong to get passage to Spellhold. Does that mean paladins must attack thieves' guilds wherever they find them? Isn't that being judge, jury, and executioner of a lot of people?
Anomen falls as a wannabe knight unless you encourage him to avoid exactly that moral trap and do the opposite, even when it means evil prevails for a time. And remember the cautionary tale of Miko Miyazaki from the Order of the Stick.
http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0406.html
http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0407.html
I don't want to get too extreme with restrictions, because it can cross into paralyzing absurdity, where you can't even move without breaking an edict, or you actually wind up committing an evil act from emotionless logical analysis of the rules, as poor, deluded Miko was.
I do want to hold myself to a higher standard than just a regular character, though. I'll make the best decisions I can, and put myself up for Lathander's judgment. Since the game program is representing Lathander, I'd say I have a pretty good chance for forgiveness if I make a wrong decision.
Brage is another one you'd want to try and talk down from the ledge he put himself on (figuratively). As you later learn his actions were the caused by the cursed sword, not anything of his own volition.
In SoA I don't recall any crimes being committed if you choose the lesser of two evils. I can't remember all the quests, but in the first one you're basically asked to perform some guard duty and if possible investigate the disappearances/murders of their thieves. By this point you've already had a few run ins on the streets with the thieves and vampires, so you know there's something a lot more evil than the thieves running around in the shadows. I'd say that as a Paladin you have a duty to seek it out and destroy it.
At least that's how I'd play it.
Despite our efforts to concentrate fire on Bassilus and interrupt his spells with Magic Missiles, he managed to get a Hold Person landed on Jaheira and me. Fortunately, I have three archers in this party (Khalid, Minsc, and Imoen), so our archers took care of all the threat quickly even after the Hold Person.
I decided to hunt down and destroy the rest of Bassilus' undead in the area, but that wasn't any big deal, since they had scattered. We were able to destroy them one or two at a time.
I'm still having an enormous amount of fun with this run. My melee and archery heavy party is winding up being a lot stronger so far than I would have expected. I'm finding out that a lot of what I usually do when I play is unnecessary overkill. Maybe it's just that the cavalier class is really, really strong in the early game.
Our quest log:
Next up: The Nashkel Mines
Reloads: 0
I do wonder what the Paladin handbook says about finding lost items, however. I recently stumbled upon a suit of Ankheg armour in Nashkell. Now, under normal conditions--I assume--the finding of a lost item should 1. be returned to the owner of the property on which it was found, or 2. be turned into the relevant authorities and a notice put up regarding it's discovery. If the lost item is not claimed within a proscribed period of time it becomes yours. Unfortunately, there is no-one nearby to turn the suit into, whether it be farmer or police force. The relevant authority in Nashkell, being the Amnian guard, does not have an option for turning in lost items. So I must refer up to the next available authority...
1. A parallel universe not governed by any Earth nation.
2. A fictional fantasy realm.
In either case, Faerun qualifies as 'not of this earth' and therefore, ipso facto, concordantly...
Hopefully I'm on the right track. Or am I way off?
The CPH is surprisingly lenient about loot and spoils of war. You have to remember, those were different times. AD&D was just as much a board game (or rather wargame) as a roleplaying-game. It was assumed that leveling up includes buying better equipment and the money for the better equipment is from randomized loot from monsters and chests.
Now I won't copy the whole chapter, because 3 of the 5 strictures is about budgeting and bookkeeping, but I think this paragraph captures the spirit:
"A paladin doesn't expect handouts, nor does he rely on the generosity of strangers or his companions. He feels responsible to pay his own way and takes pride in his self-sufficiency. He earns income from treasure, rewards, and fees, the same as anyone else. Unlike most other characters, however, the paladin operates under strict guidelines as to how he can spend his money and how much he can save."